Biden flips on the Hyde Amendment

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I don't need any polls to tell me that Warren is kicking the shit out of Sanders. But OK, if you insist.

Bernie is dropping on that same chart you posted. Warren is showing a sharp increase.

Biden dropped from his all time high but is still way ahead of Bernie. I don't even care about Biden anyway. It's you who is so desperate to claim Bernie is winning when by that very same chart you posted, he is not.

You suck at this.
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I didn't claim Sanders is winning. I claimed Sanders political ideas are certainly winning. Above that, progressives are winning while centrist Democrats are losing ground. You say M4A is a losing issue, "political suicide", yet anyone who opposes it gets laughed at at events, anyone who supports it climbs in the polls.. You don't need polls because what you feel must be what's right. But you're not very good at analyzing the political climate.

So sit tight, pick a horse just before the finish line like you usually do to mask your political incompetence. I'm sure nobody else will notice. How's Delaney doing?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I didn't claim Sanders is winning. I claimed Sanders political ideas are certainly winning. Above that, progressives are winning while centrist Democrats are losing ground. You say M4A is a losing issue, "political suicide", yet anyone who opposes it gets laughed at at events, anyone who supports it climbs in the polls.. You don't need polls because what you feel must be what's right. But you're not very good at analyzing the political climate.

So sit tight, pick a horse just before the finish line like you usually do to mask your political incompetence. I'm sure nobody else will notice. How's Delaney doing?
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Elizabeth Warren is not tied to Bernies stupid idea of forcing everybody into Medicare. She's a co-sponsor and made great talk about it but she's said other plans are on the table for her as well.

Warren is simply a better politician and leader than Bernie is.

What are Bernie bros going to do when she says she doesn't intend to force everybody into Bernies plan?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Elizabeth Warren is not tied to Bernies stupid idea of forcing everybody into Medicare. She's a co-sponsor and made great talk about it but she's said other plans are on the table for her as well.

Warren is simply a better politician and leader than Bernie is.

What are Bernie bros going to do when she says she doesn't intend to force everybody into Bernies plan?
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Why are you trying to manufacture some kind of false division between Sanders and Warren supporters?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Why are you trying to manufacture some kind of false division between Sanders and Warren supporters?
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LOL, I'm not manufacturing anything. Warren is quite clearly NOT tied to Bernie's authoritarian plan. Its you who most ignorantly drone on about how great Benie's plan is even when you demonstrate your inability to read and understand it. Warren isn't committed to Bernie's bill. It would be stupid if she were. She's not stupid. As in the following interview:

https://slate.com/business/2019/01/elizabeth-warren-dodges-kamala-harris-medicare-for-all-question.html
Elizabeth Warren Also Got Asked About Banning Private Health Insurance. She Dodged the Question.

Weisenthal: But right now, your vision for Medicare for all, would it all be a public option, or would it also include private insurance.

Warren: So right now, there are multiple bills on the floor in the United States Senate. I’ve signed onto Medicare for All. I’ve signed on to another one that gives an option for buying in to Medicaid. There are different ways we can get there. But the key has to be always keep the center of the bullseye in mind. And that is affordable health care for every American.

She's going to push for the public option because doing otherwise is to the bone stupid. Its just a matter of time before you Bernie bros turn on her.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I'm not manufacturing anything
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OK, good. I hope I don't see you telling progressives they should actually be fighting against Warren instead of Biden

Are you clear on my opinion? I support Warren. You think Sanders supporters will turn on her if she surpasses Sanders in the polls when we won't. I'm telling you this now. If Warren takes 2nd, it'll be because the ideas/political policies are more favorable among Democrats than Sanders' are. If it comes down to Sanders v Warren, that means progressives have won. That's the kind of primary I'd be more than honored to vote in, because it wouldn't be the lesser of two evils. It would be the better of the best.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
OK, good. I hope I don't see you telling progressives they should actually be fighting against Warren instead of Biden

Are you clear on my opinion? I support Warren. You think Sanders supporters will turn on her if she surpasses Sanders in the polls when we won't. I'm telling you this now. If Warren takes 2nd, it'll be because the ideas/political policies are more favorable among Democrats than Sanders' are. If it comes down to Sanders v Warren, that means progressives have won. That's the kind of primary I'd be more than honored to vote in, because it wouldn't be the lesser of two evils. It would be the better of the best.
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Will you support Warren when she says she supports the public option?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I support Warren. I don't support a public option

I can still support her because I can trust that her political opinions aren't bought
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It's just a matter of time before you Bernie bros turn on her. The cracks are already there. Your kind are unreliable and fragile.

Edit: I should have added "dupes for right wing and Putin's propaganda" too.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
It's just a matter of time before you Bernie bros turn on her. The cracks are already there. Your kind are unreliable and fragile.

Edit: I should have added "dupes for right wing and Putin's propaganda" too.
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Sanders supporters support for Warren destroys your narrative of why we opposed Hillary Clinton

Warren may very well defeat Sanders in the Dem primary. If she does, I would support her, and very happily vote for her in 2020, because I can trust that her political beliefs are her own, and weren't bought


That's why you keep trying to manufacture the false narrative that Sanders supporters should oppose Elizabeth Warren
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Sanders supporters support for Warren destroys your narrative of why we opposed Hillary Clinton

Warren may very well defeat Sanders in the Dem primary. If she does, I would support her, and very happily vote for her in 2020, because I can trust that her political beliefs are her own, and weren't bought


That's why you keep trying to manufacture the false narrative that Sanders supporters should oppose Elizabeth Warren
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Its just a matter of time.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
So shouldn't you wait until if/when that happens instead of trying to sow division among Democrats before any debates have taken place? Not sure Trump needs any more support..
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It's just a matter of time before you turn on Warren. It will only take one show from Kyle Kulinski or Jimmy Dore to send you off with pitchforks and torches looking for Warren's head. You Bernie bros are dupes.

For the record, I like Warren and totally respect her. I'd like somebody younger but I have to say that I see issues with all the prospective candidates. Warren has shown the ability to work well with others, is politically savvy and supports most of the same policies that I do. So, I'm listening to her. I also expect you guys to turn on her because that's your nature when leaders don't adhere to your list of litmus tests. Clearly, she's made statements to show she's backing away from Bernie's authoritarian plan. She's going to disappoint you in other ways. Eventually the torches and pitchforks will come out.

I'll wait to see what happens this summer before I narrow my choices.
 
medviper

medviper

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Presidents don't govern in a vacuum. The US was much more conservative during his tenure and Clinton's policies reflected that. One of his most important accomplishments was beating back Newt Gingrich's wave of Republicans. In all, he left this country in better financial shape than it has been since. Also, since he left office, wages and working conditions steadily eroded. If you compare Bill's presidency to Either of the Bush's and Trump's, he looks pretty good.
I'm not going to criticize him when we have what Shrub did to this country for comparison.
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well it was his duty to shore up the economy, that is why i voted for him, diminishing the demagogue gingrich was definitely a righteous achievement.
but his crime bill targeting low level dopers to endure the hardships of draconian state laws that resulted in mass incarceration across the board targeting mostly people of color, also threatening to throw single mothers off of welfare was unforgivable while the banking industry was allowed to run amok under his tenure.
yeah, he was better than w bush, but not by much...
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
It's just a matter of time before you turn on Warren. It will only take one show from Kyle Kulinski or Jimmy Dore to send you off with pitchforks and torches looking for Warren's head. You Bernie bros are dupes.

For the record, I like Warren and totally respect her. I'd like somebody younger but I have to say that I see issues with all the prospective candidates. Warren has shown the ability to work well with others, is politically savvy and supports most of the same policies that I do. So, I'm listening to her. I also expect you guys to turn on her because that's your nature when leaders don't adhere to your list of litmus tests. Clearly, she's made statements to show she's backing away from Bernie's authoritarian plan. She's going to disappoint you in other ways. Eventually the torches and pitchforks will come out.

I'll wait to see what happens this summer before I narrow my choices.
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Not sowing division..
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Not sowing division..
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You are the one who has all those fucking litmus tests. Your kind say give me Bernie or I'll give you Trump. I see quite clearly that Warren already diverges from your purity tests and just saying you will turn on her like you have done with everybody who gets shit done.

No, I'm not sowing division. I'm calling you a Bernie bro who will turn on Warren when she demonstrates better judgement than you'll ever have.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
medviper said:
well it was his duty to shore up the economy, that is why i voted for him, diminishing the demagogue gingrich was definitely a righteous achievement.
but his crime bill targeting low level dopers to endure the hardships of draconian state laws that resulted in mass incarceration across the board targeting mostly people of color, also threatening to throw single mothers off of welfare was unforgivable while the banking industry was allowed to run amok under his tenure.
yeah, he was better than w bush, but not by much...
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20 years ago, this country was different than it is now. There were a lot of people who supported passing those laws and it wasn't Bill's doing alone. That said, yes, I was opposed to those laws when they were written, I opposed the three strikes bullshit years before then too. They were bad laws. So, I can't fault you for holding them up as an example of Clinton's failures.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Why are you trying to manufacture some kind of false division between Sanders and Warren supporters?
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The goal should not be to make some kind of division, it is to un-marry people from the idea of 'my candidate' or ill basically be a vote for the Trumpster fire like what happened in 2016.
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
The "average pragmatic Democrat" cups Republican balls when they blow them

I'm not interested in going along to get along with Republicans you say you despise

I'm interested in transforming a center right corporate controlled country that placates to business interests into one that supports workers rights and average Americans

Nobody wants a corporate centrist like John Delaney or Joe Biden. Everyone wants a more progressive candidate like Sanders or Warren. Check the polls on the issues.
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I don't think you have a fucking clue on how the legislative process works in this country.

You must think if Bernie magically rises to the top everything will change.

Who's 'Nobody' and 'Everyone'?

You and 10% of the electorate?

Sounds powerful, I'm sure congress would bend over backwards to push everything through for you.

No one presidential candidate can change anything but the tone and the judicial appointments, and he/she has to win 1st over a party that invites Russian help.

And getting the most votes doesn't mean shit. There's 51 separate elections for president. Go swing a few red states and get back to us.

Until then you're no more influencial than another fringe demogogue.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
I don't think you have a fucking clue on how the legislative process works in this country.

You must think if Bernie magically rises to the top everything will change.

Who's 'Nobody' and 'Everyone'?

You and 10% of the electorate?

Sounds powerful, I'm sure congress would bend over backwards to push everything through for you.

No one presidential candidate can change anything but the tone and the judicial appointments, and he/she has to win 1st over a party that invites Russian help.

And getting the most votes doesn't mean shit. There's 51 separate elections for president. Go swing a few red states and get back to us.

Until then you're no more influencial than another fringe demogogue.
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We need to work to get Republicans out. Not work with them for the sake of pragmatism.. There's nothing pragmatic about taking two steps back.
 
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