Boron deficiency?

Whorlwind

Whorlwind

Well-Known Member
Hello - first time poster here.

I'm having some cosmetic issues (and possibly stunted growth-rate) with my week-and-half-olds.
I've studied and studied this shit, but I have no other friends with growing knowledge, so I'm turning to y'all for a confirmation.

QUESTION: Is this a boron deficiency? Brown/Yellowing new leaves, and curled/abnormally thick leaves in general are the supposed symptoms of boron deficiency. As seedlings, I have not nuted them yet.

SOIL: Fox farm Ocean forest. I won't be using this soil again solely for the fact that its extremely non-vegan, which doesn't jive with me.
Light: 250w CFL, 2700 temp, kept 3-4 inches away 24 hours a day (except an hour or so where I move it further and spritz the babies.) I know that, ideally, I shouldn't be using a 2700 for seedling stage, but I couldn't afford 2 lights when I started, so I went with the one that will technically work for all stages.)
Watering: As soon as the top inch of soil is dry, which has been almost every day.

This is my second grow, but first one using indoor lights (my first one was in a windowsill - They were tiny and yielded very little, but they showed absolutely no signs of bad health, and the resulting smoke was way better than the bagseed it came from). All three are being grown in the SAME 3 gallon smartpot, which I am aware is ill-advised. I expect at least 1 to be male, which I will kill when the time comes. Furthermore, this grow is really just a test run of my setup, since they are low-mid bagseed. Since Im having apparent deficiency issues, I'd say this test run was a good idea.

Thanks in advance =D
 

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Whorlwind

Whorlwind

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That is good to know. My last grow used totally different soil, and none of the dozens of seedlings or adult plants showed this sign. Would that suggest that after this grow, the soil will be depleted enough to avoid burning seedlings?

I also updated my original post to inform about my light situation. Could I possible be light stressing these?

Whorlwind said:
Light: 250w CFL, 2700 temp, kept 3-4 inches away 24 hours a day (except an hour or so where I move it further and spritz the babies.) I know that, ideally, I shouldn't be using a 2700 for seedling stage, but I couldn't afford 2 lights when I started, so I went with the one that will technically work for all stages.)
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Would nute burn also explain the unusual shape of this leaf? (Obviously not a big issue at the moment, but if it continues on newer leaves, I may have a problem).



I'm also wondering what could be wrong with this other one (pic below)- One of its cotyledon leaves shriveled and died immediately upon sprouting, and the second leaf forming above it is growing much slower than the other side. Should I be worried about this plant being stunted on one side for the entirety of its life? It's already clear that this baby is the runt, as it is also getting hit the hardest by the "brown new leaves" issue.
 

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KillsPlants

KillsPlants

Active Member
if your using a high wattage cfl I recommend pulling it up as new seedlings can't handle that much light I kept my 85 watt cfl 12 inches away for the first 3 weeks. I also had 120 crea watts spread out but I got clear signs of heat stress. cfls put off a ton of heat and seedlings cannot handle the heat.
 
KillsPlants

KillsPlants

Active Member
KillsPlants said:
if your using a high wattage cfl I recommend pulling it up as new seedlings can't handle that much light I kept my 85 watt cfl 12 inches away for the first 3 weeks. I also had 120 crea watts spread out but I got clear signs of heat stress. cfls put off a ton of heat and seedlings cannot handle the heat.
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sighns could either be hot soil and or heat stress try adjusting ur lights first. imo all plants need to rest Id give em atleast 4 hours of dark but that's an opinion thing
 
Whorlwind

Whorlwind

Well-Known Member
My CFL puts off very little heat - I can keep my hand on it for 30 seconds without having to let go, and after a couple inches of distance its barely noticeable. on top of that, I have a fan blowing on them almost constantly, for heat reduction and root/stem development. I never considered it could be heat stress - but I'm looking into that now.
 
KillsPlants

KillsPlants

Active Member
neither
Whorlwind said:
My CFL puts off very little heat - I can keep my hand on it for 30 seconds without having to let go, and after a couple inches of distance its barely noticeable. on top of that, I have a fan blowing on them almost constantly, for heat reduction and root/stem development. I never considered it could be heat stress - but I'm looking into that now.
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neither did I but the burns on my leaves says other wise
 
Whorlwind

Whorlwind

Well-Known Member
I mean, unless room temperature is too hot for them, I don't see how this could be heat stress. I don't have a thermometer yet, but a hand-test indicates it's barely more than room temp (1-2 degrees at most), which is what I've read is ideal.

I've googled around, and it looks like heat stress causes curving upwards and browning on the edges - if anything, these babies are drooping a little too far downwards, and the edges are the healthiest looking part of them.

They aren't in an enclosed environment yet - I haven't finished the grow box, and I'm waiting until my next paycheck for that. Considering the combination of the fan, the open-air circulation, and my regular spritzing, they should be safe from overheating.
 
Whorlwind

Whorlwind

Well-Known Member
Is the browning of the new leaves what looks like heat stress, or is it the wonky growth of the oldest leaves?
 
Whorlwind

Whorlwind

Well-Known Member
KillsPlants said:
"A bunch of advice"
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Hey Kills - I just want to let you know that I'm taking your advice, as I'm starting to think it could indeed be heat stress. I've more than doubled the light distance to 6-12 inches, and set the fan from Low to High.
After doing a longer hand-test of the environment, I would say the temp disparity is probably more like 5-10 degrees above room temp at times. The wrinkly, odd growth of the leaves could easily be stress. Obviously, I wasn't going to figure this out on my own until perhaps days from now, when the problem progressed much further, so I want to thank you for helping me out.
However, I'm still confused as to what the browning of the new leaves is. It doesn't look like heat stress to me. Could it be nute burn from the soil? Could it be a deficiency related to abnormal heat? Are there any nutes that rely on normal heat levels to be absorbed?
Again, thank you. I'm thinking of starting a grow log on these forums for my own record, as well as to get assistance as soon as problems arise. If you're interested to see where your help has gotten me, you should hit that up. I will probably start it sometime today.

Peace
-Whorlwind
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
from my experience, most deficiencies are N,P,K,Ca,Mg. what are your other variables like? temps, humidity, etc. what water are you using? RO, well, tap?
 
marquezmurder

marquezmurder

Well-Known Member
In my opinion your light shouldnt matter too much on seedlings with proper placement. I use a 250w T5, they love it. The leaf disformity is probably related to genetics. Where these Feminized seed?
If so I have had similar defects, and i have pictures of it somewhere. However as kills said, ffof is a little hot for seedlings. Ive had my best luck with seeding in solo cups filled with peatmoss and vermiculite, you could also use coco coir finely ground since it holds a npk of 1-0-0. Hope any of this helps
 
Whorlwind

Whorlwind

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
from my experience, most deficiencies are N,P,K,Ca,Mg. what are your other variables like? temps, humidity, etc. what water are you using? RO, well, tap?
Click to expand...
I understand that boron deficiency is uncommon, which is why I felt the need to ask. The symptoms didn't seem to point towards anything else.
I don't have a way to test PH or humidity at the moment, but the PH has got to be whatever Fox Farm Ocean Forest is after 10 days of watering, and the humidity is that of a Kentucky basement shelf, with a desk fan on them and regular spritzings (I'm still planning and buying parts for my grow cabinet). I'm using filtered tap-water.

marquezmurder said:
In my opinion your light shouldnt matter too much on seedlings with proper placement. I use a 250w T5, they love it. The leaf disformity is probably related to genetics. Where these Feminized seed?
If so I have had similar defects, and i have pictures of it somewhere. However as kills said, ffof is a little hot for seedlings. Ive had my best luck with seeding in solo cups filled with peatmoss and vermiculite, you could also use coco coir finely ground since it holds a npk of 1-0-0. Hope any of this helps
Click to expand...
Genetics could easily be the cause of the deformities (and I'm actually hoping that it is). This grow is more-or-less a test run of my lighting system - I used reg bagseed of unknown strain. The plan is to get some White Widow clones from a friend of mine after I work out the kinks in the technique and finish my grow cabinet.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Whorlwind said:
I understand that boron deficiency is uncommon, which is why I felt the need to ask. The symptoms didn't seem to point towards anything else.
I don't have a way to test PH or humidity at the moment, but the PH has got to be whatever Fox Farm Ocean Forest is after 10 days of watering, and the humidity is that of a Kentucky basement shelf, with a desk fan on them and regular spritzings (I'm still planning and buying parts for my grow cabinet). I'm using filtered tap-water.


next time at walmart, pick up a small digital temp/humidity gauge. like 10 bucks. do you let your tap sit for 24hrs before using? if it's got chlorine in it, it's a good idea to let it out-gas.



Genetics could easily be the cause of the deformities (and I'm actually hoping that it is). This grow is more-or-less a test run of my lighting system - I used reg bagseed of unknown strain. The plan is to get some White Widow clones from a friend of mine after I work out the kinks in the technique and finish my grow cabinet.
Click to expand...
 
Whorlwind

Whorlwind

Well-Known Member
I do indeed let the water sit before using it. I've got three 18 oz bottles on retainer, and I use the oldest one first. Then I refill it to be be placed at the back of the queue.

marquezmurder said:
yea bagseed is full of wonders, and hermies
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The funny thing is that my last grow (windowsill) yielded 4 our of 4 females from this same source of reg (although its been a year, and the source has probably changed in one way or another). They also showed no deformities - the only issue was a yield of <1/2 ounce from the entire grow, lol.
I had 2 plants from another seed source (more reliable and higher quality) and one of those turned out male - which was entirely ideal, since those two were intended as a breeding pair. I kept them in a separate room, and got seeds from them (which i eventually lost before being able to use them).
Needless to say, I lucked out in every possible way with that windowsill grow.

As of this morning, the browning on the new leaves has cleared up drastically on all three plants. Yesterday was the climax of the issue. This makes me believe that it wasn't heat, since it would've been permanent if it was a burn, right?




The deformed leaves, however, are going to be permanent. If there is a way that I can prevent future leaves from doing this, I'm open to suggestions. However, as Marquez suggested, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just wildcard genetics.



PS: They started giving off that wonderful smell this morning!! That is, if you stick your nose right up in it. I absolutely LOVE the stank, and I can't believe it's happening so early. My last grow didn't start stanking until flowering, so I really didn't expect this. Yay - Fucking yay!
 

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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Just so you know.

Micro nutrient def is almost impossible in a soil.......If it's a good organic built soil base.....like yours......it won't happen.

Unless you build your own base soil and really don't know what your doing.....you won't get one.
 
Whorlwind

Whorlwind

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Just so you know.

Micro nutrient def is almost impossible in a soil.......If it's a good organic built soil base.....like yours......it won't happen.

Unless you build your own base soil and really don't know what your doing.....you won't get one.
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Good to know. The fact that it seemed so out-of-the-ordinary was the reason I came asking for help, anyway.
It's cleared up now, so whatever it was isn't an issue for now. Thank you all for your help. You all represent this forum well, and I'll be sticking around.
 
KillsPlants

KillsPlants

Active Member
Whorlwind said:
Hey Kills - I just want to let you know that I'm taking your advice, as I'm starting to think it could indeed be heat stress. I've more than doubled the light distance to 6-12 inches, and set the fan from Low to High.
After doing a longer hand-test of the environment, I would say the temp disparity is probably more like 5-10 degrees above room temp at times. The wrinkly, odd growth of the leaves could easily be stress. Obviously, I wasn't going to figure this out on my own until perhaps days from now, when the problem progressed much further, so I want to thank you for helping me out.
However, I'm still confused as to what the browning of the new leaves is. It doesn't look like heat stress to me. Could it be nute burn from the soil? Could it be a deficiency related to abnormal heat? Are there any nutes that rely on normal heat levels to be absorbed?
Again, thank you. I'm thinking of starting a grow log on these forums for my own record, as well as to get assistance as soon as problems arise. If you're interested to see where your help has gotten me, you should hit that up. I will probably start it sometime today.

Peace
-Whorlwind
Click to expand...
I enjoy helping people that's what we all need. Mutations could be the cause of your spots. I am glad to see your girls are doing better man. Please link me to the journal when it's started much love!
 
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