Bubble Cloner question comin your way!

Okay, so I'm a bit of a noob with this Bubble0cloner, since I've only just constructed my first one, and it'll be hard without photos, but I cbf'ed finding the camera, snapping, plugging in and copy/pasting..

So I'll strip the question down to it's essence.

The net pots I got for the holes in the lid, are - quite frankly - shit. When you cut-off the bottom to stick some neoprene in them, they split open and have no tightness.

Question is, if I drill a hole in the base, can I .. can I just let the stem of the cuttings sit in the bubbling water? I mean, it has a twin air-pump, with two 12" airstones, so the water is extremely well aerated.

I know technically, they're sposed to be suspended above the water-level, with the fizzy water providing just spits and spats of moisture through the popping bubbles.

But I can see an easier way to do it that would mean the stems of the cuttings would sit just under water.

That should still be fine, right? Just not 'technically' a bubble-cloner anymore.

Penny for ya thoughts?

Why are you cutting off the bottom??? To use net pots you stick them in the top. They hold the stem upright and keep it from going too deep. I've got a bubble cloner but I'm not crazy about it. I've made 3 I think, in addition to the one I bought. None of them are nearly as successful as just simply using Clonex, Rapid Rooters and a heat mat. I have nearly 100% success with this simple, cheap method.

potpimp said:

Why are you cutting off the bottom??? To use net pots you stick them in the top. They hold the stem upright and keep it from going too deep. I've got a bubble cloner but I'm not crazy about it. I've made 3 I think, in addition to the one I bought. None of them are nearly as successful as just simply using Clonex, Rapid Rooters and a heat mat. I have nearly 100% success with this simple, cheap method.

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These baskets are so closed at the base, that the bubble-spray doesn't make it into the pots. I know - How, I didn't manufacture them

Maybe they were made for another type of hydro system, dunno. But the base is almost ALL solid black plastic: The based - rahter stupidly - are where all the lines of mesh join-up together, and after leaving all 14 pots in the holes with the air pump dunning for around an hour or two, BOTH the rockwool I had in one, and the Vermiculite in the other, where still dry to touch. the Outside of the plastic pots were nice and wet, but sadly, I'm not growing plastic

The pic tute's I've read online too, mostly use neoprene inserted into the pots collar, with the cutting stem dangling just above water level: So it receives plenty moisture.

So, basically, the pots - when left complete - are acting as a barrier stopping fizzwater from getting to the medium.

I also meant to go out today and buy some suckes to fix the stones to the bottom, but didn't get round to it.

maybe that works for you, but as I said, I've had 100% failure lately with all the cuttings I've taken.

I've always used the same technique for striking cuttings, and it's always worked till now. I think it's Adelaide's climate: Not enough humidity/too dry, and too hot.

So the heater really isn't necessary at all here, since it's 30-40oC (100-120oF?) in summer. Overheating's far more a problem.

So my usual method would b to make the cut, underwater, at an angle, just below a node, sometimes I lightly scratch the base of the stem - other times I don't. Then I chuck em in some water, and one by one, tip em in hormone powder, blow it off, then plant in straight perlite in a small pot. That's left ina saucer or other small vessel, so only the base of the pot gets water, then I leave em out back in the sunroom with the blinds down, so they don't get too much direct sunlight.

The last half dozen or so cuttings I've taken, dried-out so fast, I had to use a humidity dome: Which - combined with the heat during the Adelaide summer, caused them to rot before they had a chance.

So, cool, super aerated water, is something I haven't tried, and thus: A bubble cloner

So, back to the question, can the stems just be left to sit IN the bubbling water?

EDIT: Almost lost that message again!.. Imagine typing that out a second time? Why would you even bother! .. The clipboard was even empty, even after copying the message. Phew.

OK, I got the picture now mate. You're right, the net pots are like a barrier. For the most part they don't have to get a lot of water, even aeroponics will work, but cutting out maybe every other piece might make it better and still leave some for structural purposes. I forgot that it is dead of summer down there, so yes the humidity would be a problem and you would not need the heat mat. Are you using rooting hormone in your water?

potpimp said:

OK, I got the picture now mate. You're right, the net pots are like a barrier. For the most part they don't have to get a lot of water, even aeroponics will work, but cutting out maybe every other piece might make it better and still leave some for structural purposes.

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Yeah, I was thinking of leaving a few nets un-cut anyhow: Cos I figure it'd be just as good for starting seeds as striking cuttings.

potpimp said:

I forgot that it is dead of summer down there, so yes the humidity would be a problem and you would not need the heat mat. Are you using rooting hormone in your water?

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Playing around with the airstones, even sitting in the shade, where it is now it's afternoon, the water felt tepid - just from the ambient temperature

Winter'd be a different story, but there's 2 months to go till autumn even gets here, so I don't need to worry about that yet

I'm not using anything yet, cos I am still trying to figure-out the best way to suspend the cuttings. On the one hand, the baskets - uncut - are too much of a barrier, and the medium doesn't get wet. But if I cut the baskets in half (cutting the bottom off), then they tend to spread too easily: So the cuttings might well fall into the water. Why I was thinking: If I can just DRILL a hole in the base, then pop the stems through there, would they be alright being in the water.

All I really have to do to avoid that - though - is empty some water out the container, I spose

Mmm.. I will add, too, that I'm not JUST going to use the cloner for MJ: I have Khat plants and other enthenogenic plants I'd like to strike cuttings for. I also have a vege patch, and thought for a test run, I could take a buncha cuttings from all the different plants - particularly the tomatoes - and see how vege seeds and .. the real test, would be a Hawiian Baby Woodrose Seed: They're absolute bitches to germinate

Size of a pea, if you've never seen one, and they have super thick shells, and this gel-like menbrane inside. They're so prone to rot, that last year when I first germed a fresh batch I got, only 2 out of around 20 actually germinated sucessfully.

So, if ANY seed will give me a hard time, it's baby woodrose. I'd consider it the ultimate test for any bubble cloning box, but once they take off. they get pretty unhappy, pretty quick, in pots. Put em in the ground, and they'll strangle your dog if it sits there long enough.

Swallow whole houses and kill trees, they do

Also, with these pots, they're not like the ones I'm always seeing people posting pics of in the tutorials on here (and other forums).

The ones you all seem to use, have fairly open 'grid' mesh on the bottom as WELL as the sides.

These ones are closed-in at the base. Stupid design really.

I reakon I got an idea to avoid any major .. work, whilst still avoiding the roots dangling in teh water.

First, the water level needs to go down about two inches. Then I drill a hole in the bottom, and stick the cuttings stem through the hole.

And for the finale: I top/fill the pot with Vermiculite, or pertite, so the cutting is supported by that medium. That way, the stem is getting fizz-water, the middle section of the cutting is getting support, along with a tiny bit of moisture, and the oportunity to root even more, and the growing tip is outside and above the box.

It'll mean the cuttings will have to be around 4-5 inches minimum each, but lets face it: Most cuttings struggle when they're smaller than that anyway.

Should I use rooting powder? I assum it'll be washed off relatively fast, but *shrug*

I'll aslo add a tiny amount of flowering fert, and a drop of SuperThrive to the water, of course.

GrassCity Sucks said:

Should I use rooting powder? I assum it'll be washed off relatively fast, but *shrug*

I'll aslo add a tiny amount of flowering fert, and a drop of SuperThrive to the water, of course.

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That sounds like a very good plan. I think using a gel or liquid would be better than a powder; it would stay in suspension better.

Well, I'll upload some pics of the test clones in a few moments.

potpimp said:

That sounds like a very good plan. I think using a gel or liquid would be better than a powder; it would stay in suspension better.

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Here we go, I figure it deserved it's own thread, just for the effort of plugging in the camera and photoshopping down the pics alone

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/499265-some-pics-bubble-cloner.html#post6851357

You mentioned suction cups to secure the air rocks in place... just an idea for you, zip ties can be cut/adjusted to hold em in a certain position.


I never found a suction cup that would actually stay stuck, either hydroponics or aquariums. they would all give way eventually.

GrassCity Sucks said:

I know technically, they're sposed to be suspended above the water-level, with the fizzy water providing just spits and spats of moisture through the popping bubbles.

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They are? I thought they were supposed to sit in the oxygen rich water.

PJ Diaz said:

They are? I thought they were supposed to sit in the oxygen rich water.

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You being sarcastic? Context isn't always obvious online, without the aid of tone-of-voice etc

But if you're not being Sarcastic: Naye - the stems for the cuttings are meant to be suspended just above water level, so the tiny spatter from the million-odd constantly popping bubbles hit the stems, and moisten them

At the moment, the last 5mm (1/4inch or so) of my test-clones ARE in the water, but with the heat we have here at the moment, the water will evaporate down fast enough, so I haven't worried so much about that

Hopefully, if it doesn't evap too fast, then by the time the roots have begun emerging, the water level will be down by another inch or so, hence, the roots will be just sitting in air - copping bubble-spatter

fingers crossed

GrassCity Sucks said:

You being sarcastic? Context isn't always obvious online, without the aid of tone-of-voice etc

But if you're not being Sarcastic: Naye - the stems for the cuttings are meant to be suspended just above water level, so the tiny spatter from the million-odd constantly popping bubbles hit the stems, and moisten them

At the moment, the last 5mm (1/4inch or so) of my test-clones ARE in the water, but with the heat we have here at the moment, the water will evaporate down fast enough, so I haven't worried so much about that

Hopefully, if it doesn't evap too fast, then by the time the roots have begun emerging, the water level will be down by another inch or so, hence, the roots will be just sitting in air - copping bubble-spatter

fingers crossed

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It's why it's imprtant to space your air-stones right: Having them all in one corner would mean the plants/clones/whatever over the opposive corner would probably miss out, and rapidly dry-out.

But I really don't see why you couldn't have the roots in the bubbling wate.. no wait, yes I can: The bubbling from the air-stone(s) would probably damage the roots simply cos it's so.. bubbly

Mm

I can't see why you couldn't stick the bubblers to the SIDE of a tank though, THEN submerge the stems/roots in the water.. that'd make the water movement alot less turbulent

Undercover Cop said:

You mentioned suction cups to secure the air rocks in place... just an idea for you, zip ties can be cut/adjusted to hold em in a certain position.

View attachment 1964941View attachment 1964942
I never found a suction cup that would actually stay stuck, either hydroponics or aquariums. they would all give way eventually.

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That's a great idea.

That first pic was the shape I - crudely - constructed using the copper wire, too. And yeah: Suction cups DO have a habit of slipping. I'm sure top-quality rubber ones would stay put, but I doubt move shops sell the good ones - whichever brand they might be.

GrassCity Sucks said:

You being sarcastic? Context isn't always obvious online, without the aid of tone-of-voice etc

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No, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not a pro with bubble cloners, but everything I've read says to submerge the stems. Here are just a few links which mention submerging the stems:

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/71967-how-can-i-build-my-own-bubble-cloner.html
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25453
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/327528-can-i-still-use-clone.html

..and I found this:

GrassCity Sucks said:

But I really don't see why you couldn't have the roots in the bubbling wate.. no wait, yes I can: The bubbling from the air-stone(s) would probably damage the roots simply cos it's so.. bubbly

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That's exactly how DWC works -- the roots grow into the bubbling solution. They don't get damaged from being too bubbly.

Ahh.. very interesting

The couple of pic-tutorials I read specifically showed the stems up out of the water. Spose everyone has their own idea of how it should work

The dood who wrote the best tutorial (well I found it best) when I PM'ed him even said that they shouldn't be sitting in the water, that the 100% humidity air is cricial for a bubble cloner. Spose you can do it either way