Bubblelicious, New York Power Diesel, and Super Skunk in DWC

Bob Smith said:

No 240V power/outlet in either the shed or the garage, but I know that there's a wire running to each (i.e., they each are wired for their own dedicated circuit - there's a wire to the garage and a wire to the shed running straight from the breaker box - they don't share the same wire out).

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So, if I understand the garage and shed wires don't share the same orange cover-insulation, but share a ground wire?

Bob Smith said:

Tried to look at the wire, but there's not enough exposed to see what gauge it is - if it helps, all the other wires are gray, and the shed/garage wire and the heater/central AC wire are the only two pairs covered in orange wire.

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I'll say the orange wire is a 10 gauge wire able to handle 30Amps.

Bob Smith said:

And they run out of the breaker box sharing one copper wire, although I'm not sure if that gets split somewhere along the way.

All that being said, here's where I stand on the issue at present - if I understand correctly (a stretch, to be sure), the fact that the garage and shed share a dual 20 amp breaker means that either one of them has full access to 40 amps, assuming the wire can handle it, correct?

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I am pretty sure that the wire for the garage/shed (I'll add a pic soon) is a 10/3 wire from what you have said and from what I see. I don't think it should be connected to the 20Amp 2 pole "connected" breaker, like it is(not a big deal). This is what I'd do if I were you. Find the dedicated outlet in the garage, open it up. Take a look and and note how it is wired. You either have the black/white/ground or red/white/ground connected to this outlet but you should see all 4 wires in there( I think). If so, Then I'd change out the breaker for a 30Amp 2 pole breaker just like the one you have but 30Amp. now you can leave the shed alone so you can keep the power there. If you grab the red and black and ground wire, connect them to an outlet you have 240V, 30Amp power.

Bob Smith said:

That being said, the wire is clearly thicker then other wires running to 20amp circuits, so even if it can't handle the full 40amps without shorting, it can most likely handle thirty amps, correct?

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correct, two- 30Amps, 120 circuits, or a 30Amp 240 circuit and 120V outlets (as I have now.)

Bob Smith said:

If the answer to both of those two questions is "yes" (and from my limited understanding I think it is), then I can run both my 1Ks on the garage/shed circuit, and I've got plenty of power in there for whatever I may want to do.

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Sound like it.

Bob Smith said:

Hell, even if it isn't, since I'm planning on getting a mini-split AC to cool things off, I think that the re-wiring job isn't necessary.

But I really appreciate your help, and I reserve the right to change my mind again in five minutes and decide to electrocute myself

Anyone who's followed the thread knows that I can be quite fickle.

EDIT: bought another ozone generator today:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nexternal.com/tbt/images/23774_CAOZN1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thebigtomato.com/catalog/cap-ozone-generator.htm&usg=__NOEbxN1-L-P1X5IGSVjPcFCeVMI=&h=320&w=320&sz=9&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=B2Bnee45u_U01M:&tbnh=118&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcap%2Bozone%2Bgenerator%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

The little one just isn't getting it done right now, but I'm pretty sure that this one will knock odors the fuck out.

Also re-washed hydroton for the first time today - in all honesty, wasn't that bad - beats the shit outta washing it for the first time.

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cazador said:

So, if I understand the garage and shed wires don't share the same orange cover-insulation, but share a ground wire?



I'll say the orange wire is a 10 gauge wire able to handle 30Amps.



I am pretty sure that the wire for the garage/shed (I'll add a pic soon) is a 10/3 wire from what you have said and from what I see. I don't think it should be connected to the 20Amp 2 pole "connected" breaker, like it is(not a big deal). This is what I'd do if I were you. Find the dedicated outlet in the garage, open it up. Take a look and and note how it is wired. You either have the black/white/ground or red/white/ground connected to this outlet but you should see all 4 wires in there( I think). If so, Then I'd change out the breaker for a 30Amp 2 pole breaker just like the one you have but 30Amp. now you can leave the shed alone so you can keep the power there. If you grab the red and black and ground wire, connect them to an outlet you have 240V, 30Amp power.




correct, two- 30Amps, 120 circuits, or a 30Amp 240 circuit and 120V outlets (as I have now.)



Sound like it.

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Firstly, thanks again for all your help - it's very much appreciated

Now, lemme just make sure I've got this one point clear and there's no misunderstandings:

Leaving things EXACTLY as they are right now (same dual 20amp breakers, etc.), and ASSUMING that the wire running to the garage is a 10 gauge, capable of handling 30 amps, then I can safely run ~25 amps on that line without worrying about tripping a breaker, correct? Like this second, if I wanted to?

I.e., even though the breaker for the garage is only 20amps by itself, because it's sharing with the shed, those 20 shed amps are already available to the garage, with the only limiting factor being the wire gauge, which appears to be ~30amps?

Bob Smith said:

Firstly, thanks again for all your help - it's very much appreciated

Now, lemme just make sure I've got this one point clear and there's no misunderstandings:

Leaving things EXACTLY as they are right now (same dual 20amp breakers, etc.), and ASSUMING that the wire running to the garage is a 10 gauge, capable of handling 30 amps, then I can safely run ~25 amps on that line without worrying about tripping a breaker, correct? Like this second, if I wanted to?

I.e., even though the breaker for the garage is only 20amps by itself, because it's sharing with the shed, those 20 shed amps are already available to the garage, with the only limiting factor being the wire gauge, which appears to be ~30amps?

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No problem, I'm happy to help out.

The answer is NO. As it stands right now you have 20Amps to the garage and 20Amps to the shed and the breaker should not be connect as it is(double-pole bonded). I think you should be able to grab the 20Amp shed line if it is going to/through the garage too. Then you'll have two 20Amp lines there until you replace the breaker to a 30 amp breaker.

Make sense?

The wire can handle 30 amps but the breaker will trip at around 20Amps until you switch it out to a 30amp breaker and/or make the other wire to the shed available to the garage then you'll have two 20Amp lines in the garage.

cazador said:

No problem, I'm happy to help out.

The answer is NO. As it stands right now you have 20Amps to the garage and 20Amps to the shed and the breaker should not be connect as it is(double-pole bonded). I think you should be able to grab the 20Amp shed line if it is going to/through the garage too. Then you'll have two 20Amp lines there until you replace the breaker to a 30 amp breaker.

Make sense?

The wire can handle 30 amps but the breaker will trip at around 20Amps until you switch it out to a 30amp breaker.

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Aww, fudge

I was thinking that the shed and garage basically shared a 40 amp breaker, but it seems as though they each have their own 20 amp breakers, and for some strange reason they're connected.

Got it.

Soooooooooo, how hard is replacing a breaker? Looks like I'd need to replace two, huh? Put a "normal" 20amp in for the shed and put a 30amp in for the garage, no?

Please tell me this is as simple as a screwdriver and a Home Depot run............please......

EDIT: just Googled it and this shit looks fucking simple, even for me (you're all allowed to laugh at that statement when you catch a sniff of my burning corpse five states away). Hmmmmm, might have to run to Home Depot real quick.

DOUBLE EDIT: Is this what I would need? This said that the wire size should be an "8".

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Also, you think it makes more sense to put one double breaker in there or put the garage on its own 30 and the shed on its on 20?

Bob Smith said:

Aww, fudge

I was thinking that the shed and garage basically shared a 40 amp breaker, but it seems as though they each have their own 20 amp breakers, and for some strange reason they're connected.

Got it.

Soooooooooo, how hard is replacing a breaker? Looks like I'd need to replace two, huh? Put a "normal" 20amp in for the shed and put a 30amp in for the garage, no?

Please tell me this is as simple as a screwdriver and a Home Depot run............please......

EDIT: just Googled it and this shit looks fucking simple, even for me (you're all allowed to laugh at that statement when you catch a sniff of my burning corpse five states away). Hmmmmm, might have to run to Home Depot real quick.

DOUBLE EDIT: Is this what I would need? This said that the wire size should be an "8".

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Also, you think it makes more sense to put one double breaker in there or put the garage on its own 30 and the shed on its on 20?

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Yup, simple as a screwdriver and a Home Depot run.

depending on how you want to proceed you need either one of-

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

or Two of
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

not sure if these are the correct ones for your box but when you go to HD bring that double 20 amp breaker with you. That way you know it will fit and is the correct one for your box.

Skype would make this so much easier

cazador said:

Yup, simple as a screwdriver and a Home Depot run.

depending on how you want to proceed you need either one of-

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

or Two of
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

not sure if these are the correct ones for your box but when you go to HD bring that double 20 amp breaker with you. That way you know it will fit and is the correct one for your box.

Skype would make this so much easier

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Yes it would, but it'd be hard for you to keep a straight face giving instructions to someone wearing a Scream mask

So, according to this, I don't even need to cut the power to the breaker to take it out? Can that be right?

http://homerenovations.about.com/od/electrical/ss/artremovcircuit.htm

Bob Smith said:

Yes it would, but it'd be hard for you to keep a straight face giving instructions to someone wearing a Scream mask

So, according to this, I don't even need to cut the power to the breaker to take it out? Can that be right?

http://homerenovations.about.com/od/electrical/ss/artremovcircuit.htm

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Correct you don't HAVE to turn of the MAIN power just turn off the breaker and pop it off the panel. Be careful of the bar behind the breaker as it is HOT. Once the breaker is pulled of the panel you can safely disconnect the wire from the breaker without worry of shock. Just make sure you keep everything clear of the empty spot left on the panel where the breaker was.

cazador said:

Correct you don't HAVE to turn of the MAIN power just turn off the breaker and pop it off the panel. Be careful of the bar behind the breaker as it is HOT. Once the breaker is pulled of the panel you can safely disconnect the wire from the breaker without worry of shock. Just make sure you keep everything clear of the empty spot left on the panel where the breaker was.

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Gracias, mi amigo

Gonna give it a go sometime early next week.

Bob Smith said:

Gracias, mi amigo

Gonna give it a go sometime early next week.

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Por nada, feliz de ayudar.

sorry to jump in here so late bob but just skimmin thru the journal and its long as shit so its gonna b a while but do have to say i like where ur heads at with ur setup and design. i could def learn a few tips from ya when i flip to hydro. ill check in time to time following along with a question or two.

anyways scribed and rep+ for the legit setup

BooMeR242 said:

sorry to jump in here so late bob but just skimmin thru the journal and its long as shit so its gonna b a while but do have to say i like where ur heads at with ur setup and design. i could def learn a few tips from ya when i flip to hydro. ill check in time to time following along with a question or two.

anyways scribed and rep+ for the legit setup

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Happy to have you; you and your avatar are always welcome

haha thanks i sure hope so

How the electrical coming bob? Sorry I havent been here for a fw days, but been real busy with my remodel. Just ran my 240v outlet today. It is very simple if you have the openings(you dont yet?) But as far as that goes, you should be able to add a secondary breakerbox right next to your current one(should cost about $300) and move all of your grow breakers to that. the new outlets and 240 would be a breeze then, and would all be seperate from the standard house ones. You wouldnt believe the amount of work I've had to do over the last few days and whats still to come in the next few. I'm hoping to have the new room up and running by next weekend. small preview since its your thread, moved the 400w up to the veg room, putting 2 new 600w's in the room, adding a portable ac and hydrogen minigen running on the cppm1, same controller as you without the environmental controls. This version of the room will be fully sealed. As of right now, I have the whole room tore down, have all of the new outlets ran(240v for lights, 20a for ac, and a new 15a for everything else), and had to reconfigure all of the ceiling joists to get me an extra 10" of height so the 600w's wont burn my plants. I hope all your shenanaganz are going to plan. I guess I'll find out after you read this. Sorry to blab in your thread, but I figured you like keeping track of similar work.

wonderblunder said:

Sounds like things are moving...... Looking forward to seeing the additions...... WHy do you need to hide the AC?

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Wonder, sorry I missed this question the first time around - basically, the garage is supposed to just be storage, so an AC sticking outta the window would be kinda conspicuous.

How the electrical coming bob? Sorry I havent been here for a fw days, but been real busy with my remodel. Just ran my 240v outlet today. It is very simple if you have the openings(you dont yet?) But as far as that goes, you should be able to add a secondary breakerbox right next to your current one(should cost about $300) and move all of your grow breakers to that. the new outlets and 240 would be a breeze then, and would all be seperate from the standard house ones. You wouldnt believe the amount of work I've had to do over the last few days and whats still to come in the next few. I'm hoping to have the new room up and running by next weekend. small preview since its your thread, moved the 400w up to the veg room, putting 2 new 600w's in the room, adding a portable ac and hydrogen minigen running on the cppm1, same controller as you without the environmental controls. This version of the room will be fully sealed. As of right now, I have the whole room tore down, have all of the new outlets ran(240v for lights, 20a for ac, and a new 15a for everything else), and had to reconfigure all of the ceiling joists to get me an extra 10" of height so the 600w's wont burn my plants. I hope all your shenanaganz are going to plan. I guess I'll find out after you read this. Sorry to blab in your thread, but I figured you like keeping track of similar work.

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Electrical's coming along, I guess - seems like I should have plenty of power into the garage, assuming the mini-split can be put on its own circuit and won't cannibalize the 60 amps that are in there. If anything, since it seems like the garage/shed are on 10gauge wire, I might just replace the breakers and make them 30amp, which would give me a total of 70 amps in the garage.

Sounds like your room's coming along very, very well - got an ETA to be up and running?

I'm thinking that my complete overhaul will start on or about 4.15.10, and hopefully won't take more then a week or two (hopefully just a few days, though).

BTW, I'm back to wanting 4 600s instead of 2 1Ks - figure I might as well get all the power I can in the limited room I have.

Bob Smith said:

Wonder, sorry I missed this question the first time around - basically, the garage is supposed to just be storage, so an AC sticking outta the window would be kinda conspicuous.

Electrical's coming along, I guess - seems like I should have plenty of power into the garage, assuming the mini-split can be put on its own circuit and won't cannibalize the 60 amps that are in there. If anything, since it seems like the garage/shed are on 10gauge wire, I might just replace the breakers and make them 30amp, which would give me a total of 70 amps in the garage.

Sounds like your room's coming along very, very well - got an ETA to be up and running?

I'm thinking that my complete overhaul will start on or about 4.15.10, and hopefully won't take more then a week or two (hopefully just a few days, though).

BTW, I'm back to wanting 4 600s instead of 2 1Ks - figure I might as well get all the power I can in the limited room I have.

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Cool. Glad your figuring it out. Im planning on having the room fully up and running with the plants in it by Saturday. Since it's so much changed, dooing test runs for a couple of days once everything is plugged in.

Bob Smith said:

BTW, I'm back to wanting 4 600s instead of 2 1Ks - figure I might as well get all the power I can in the limited room I have.

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I would have to agree that 4 600's would be better. You have more points of light and the bulbs can be placed closer to the tops of plants. Your coverage would be awesome.

statik said:

I would have to agree that 4 600's would be better. You have more points of light and the bulbs can be placed closer to the tops of plants. Your coverage would be awesome.

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I have been thinking about this for a while. ( 4 600's vs 3 1000's) I think they both have their pro's and con's. couldn't decide, so 3 1000's are being tested out.
better coverage vs deeper penetration.

Definitely go with 4 600's over 2 1000's.

Bob , I think I saw you say you were thinking of adding a sink to your garage. Don't wait! It will be one of the best things you do. Worth every effort and penny.

cazador said:

I have been thinking about this for a while. ( 4 600's vs 3 1000's) I think they both have their pro's and con's. couldn't decide, so 3 1000's are being tested out.
better coverage vs deeper penetration.

Definitely go with 4 600's over 2 1000's.

Bob , I think I saw you say you were thinking of adding a sink to your garage. Don't wait! It will be one of the best things you do. Worth every effort and penny.

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I would think that 3 1000's would top 4 600's for sure. The surface area that would be covered would not really be that much smaller than with 4 600w'ers. The added penetration is a win for sure, especially for only adding in 600 more watts of juice usage.

Bob, how much do think you have thrown at this little venture of yours now? Ha ha...head spinning yet?

GO 4K Bob . . . mooohhoooohhahhhaaaaaahhaaaa

My other grow just chopped and he ran a 600 (cuz the 1k blowd up) loaner . . . BIG DIFFERENCE! I know there are pros & cons for both, but I'm just letting you know ... HUGE DIFFERENCE in the size and quantity of bud. If your power panel can handle 4k I would definately do it.

And that was 1k magnetic vs 600 digital btw!

statik said:

I would have to agree that 4 600's would be better. You have more points of light and the bulbs can be placed closer to the tops of plants. Your coverage would be awesome.

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Not only the better coverage over four tables, but 20% more wattage/lumens as well.

Seeing as how my footprint is kinda limited, the more watts I can squeeze in there, the better (to a point).

Bob , I think I saw you say you were thinking of adding a sink to your garage. Don't wait! It will be one of the best things you do. Worth every effort and penny.

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Yeah, not quite sure it could even fit very well in there, truthfully - also, not needed, other then for cleaning out hydroton, which I can do once a month inside.

I'll give it some more thought, but the sink will most likely not be an addition.

Bob, how much do think you have thrown at this little venture of yours now? Ha ha...head spinning yet?

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Too much...............if I'm not at $10K yet, I can't be more then a couple hundred away.

Knowing what I know now, could've had my new setup (4 6's) up and running with all the fixin's for ~$5K.

Unfortunately, since the only thing that's "transferable" to my new setup will be my fans and Sentinel, that's basically just gonna be an additional $5K.

Oh well.

GO 4K Bob . . . mooohhoooohhahhhaaaaaahhaaaa

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Lol - just don't have enough floor space to justify that - only 10' wide in the garage, and I need to leave 1' on each side, so 4 1Ks would just be overkill - would be pretty cool, but that's even more weed then I'd know what to do with

HUGE DIFFERENCE in the size and quantity of bud.

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Don't doubt it, but 600s over 3x3 tables should give me plenty of power - I'm guessing your friend just swapped out lights and kept the footprint the same? In that case, there would be a noticeable difference.

There'd be a difference if I used 1Ks over 3x3 tables instead of 600s, but the cost/benefit wouldn't justify it, IMO.

Anyhow, need to get one of those magnifying loupes to look at the tris - seeing a lot of red hairs on certain strains, and I'm thinking they may be almost ready to cut at this point - sucks, because I'm totally not ready to refill the tent back up

Oh well, we shall see............