Burden Of Proof

morgentaler said:
Okay, to answer the original question.

Theists don't understand 'burden of proof' because indoctrination instills them with the idea that no proof but the bible is needed, and looking for other proof is questioning God, which is a huge no-no.
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Someone give this man a cookie!

They would never admit it though. Which shows lack of mental balls and lack of conviction in faith.

Talk about a fucking coward eh Maui? There's your definition.
 
CrackerJax said:
In the end, they all abandon the Bible and lock arms..... one problem tho..... it doesn't help the recruiting rates for the myth.

It shows ur position cannot stand on its own merits....

Burden of proof failure.
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So, you get to set a standard (and give it a title) I had no say in making, then expect me to fulfill those expectations in order to fulfill it's requirements? I'm seeing more clearly how you try manipulate both sides of the argument. When people don't take the bait with your "questions", you conclude lack of conviction...... and therefore lack of Existence.

It's a cowards argument. Your little understanding of something spiritual could be expanded by an honest question. Don't be shy. It'll feel cleansing. Promise.

A believer may get sucked into trying to prove anything to you..... probably more out of enjoyment of the subject...... or pity. We mean well, anyway. Who knows? You may just see the light.
 
Mauihund said:
So, you get to set a standard (and give it a title) I had no say in making, then expect me to fulfill those expectations in order to fulfill it's requirements? I'm seeing more clearly how you try manipulate both sides of the argument. When people don't take the bait with your "questions", you conclude lack of conviction...... and therefore lack of Existence.

It's a cowards argument. Your little understanding of something spiritual could be expanded by an honest question. Don't be shy. It'll feel cleansing. Promise.

A believer may get sucked into trying to prove anything to you..... probably more out of enjoyment of the subject...... or pity. We mean well, anyway. Who knows? You may just see the light.
Click to expand...

Dude... how hard is it really? What don't you get about this concept that you are the one making the claim, so it is you who has to prove it. If I made a claim, I'd have to prove it too. It works exactly the same way. Thing is.. I'm not sitting here saying "God doesn't exist", what I'm saying is "I don't know if God exists", that is not at all a claim, it's a statement, it's an opinion. You're saying "God does exist", to that I say "prove it" - till you do, CJ's right, burder of proof fail.
 
PadawanBater said:
Dude... how hard is it really? What don't you get about this concept that you are the one making the claim, so it is you who has to prove it. If I made a claim, I'd have to prove it too. It works exactly the same way. Thing is.. I'm not sitting here saying "God doesn't exist", what I'm saying is "I don't know if God exists", that is not at all a claim, it's a statement, it's an opinion. You're saying "God does exist", to that I say "prove it" - till you do, CJ's right, burder of proof fail.
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Well said pal. It seems when someone disputes the beliefs of a religion they get labeled an Atheist, there are not many true atheists out there who are the ones claiming there is no god.

I find most fit in to one of the agnostic brackets and there are many different levels of agnostic. What I feel as an agnostic is that I don't know if there is a god or not but I believe all religions are falsehoods created as a means to control man.

So with this there is no burden of proof about a 'god', but I will add it does leave me with a burden of proving religions wrong, not very hard with the self contradictions that the faiths believers promote.
 
I'm one of the true atheists. But not an adeist. There may be a creative force (or intelligence) beyond what physics and cosmology currently understands, but until there is evidence for it I'll remain agnostic in that regard.

I'm a true atheist because the gods of men are petty, shallow things, created from archaic beliefs, and each group of worshippers dismisses the validity of the other groups god. The burden of proof lies with religions to prove their gods exist, and if they can't convince each other they will certainly never convince me.
 
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Mauihund said:
So, you get to set a standard (and give it a title) I had no say in making, then expect me to fulfill those expectations in order to fulfill it's requirements? I'm seeing more clearly how you try manipulate both sides of the argument. When people don't take the bait with your "questions", you conclude lack of conviction...... and therefore lack of Existence.

It's a cowards argument. Your little understanding of something spiritual could be expanded by an honest question. Don't be shy. It'll feel cleansing. Promise.

A believer may get sucked into trying to prove anything to you..... probably more out of enjoyment of the subject...... or pity. We mean well, anyway. Who knows? You may just see the light.
Click to expand...

How about I just throw you a flash light so you can find ur own way out of the darkness of the myth.

You simply believe in the religion, but there is no proof. So don't get all huffy when folks point that error out to you.

I'm not delusional about anything. I face my existence HEAD ON. I need no teddy Bear to comfort me. I'm a big boy....

The stories of the Bible are just that.... stories, nothing more. No source can prove itself, and yet that is exactly what your entire belief system is based upon. It's surreal and illogical, and totally subjective. So don't be offended if clear headed ppl scoff at it. Looking at it objectively, it's quite ridiculous.
 
krustofskie said:
What I feel as an agnostic is that I don't know if there is a god or not but I believe all religions are falsehoods created as a means to control man.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Quoted for truth! This single fact alone should be enough to show a thinking individual that organized religions were designed to control the population, that is it. An organization with a way to control what an isolated population sees, hears, reads (if they're even litterate), and believes has the power to manipulate the entire population. It's no different than todays society and mainstream media. History shows us shit like this happens all the fucking time, we witness it and record it, we have collected data in the record books of this exact same situation taking place time after fucking time all throughout human history... Someone in a powerful position realizes a way to manipulate the people they claim to represent in order to accumulate more wealth and more power for themselves or a select few at the expense of the rest of the population, the surfs, the bottom feeders... us. I was unpleasently reminded of this fact as I drove through my town today... almost everyone is just going through life day by day, working to pay the bills, not thinking to make mankind and existence better...

This cycle we've found ourselves in is increasingly depressing...

/rant

morgentaler said:
I'm one of the true atheists. But not an adeist. There may be a creative force (or intelligence) beyond what physics and cosmology currently understands, but until there is evidence for it I'll remain agnostic in that regard.

I'm a true atheist because the gods of men are petty, shallow things, created from archaic beliefs, and each group of worshippers dismisses the validity of the other groups god. The burden of proof lies with religions to prove their gods exist, and if they can't convince each other they will certainly never convince me.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I am so close to 100% certain in my own mind that no god mankind has thought up is real. There may be some force out there responsible for everything we have not discovered yet, who knows right, but this much is for sure, if there is a "God", it certainly does not give a damn what happens to anyone here on Earth, it does not intervene in anyones life at anytime, and doesn't care if you worship it or not, there is no place of eternal punishment or bliss...
 
morgentaler said:
Okay, to answer the original question.

Theists don't understand 'burden of proof' because indoctrination instills them with the idea that no proof but the bible is needed, and looking for other proof is questioning God, which is a huge no-no.
Click to expand...

I surely know what burden of proof is. I am no fool. However my friend, no one forced me to believe in God I just kind of found Him. He is really everywhere. That is why I can say proof is everywhere. I cannot give you proof of Him, as in, here he is for all of you to see. For God is knowledge. You are certainly in-titled to find God in your own way, please look! The Bible is not the only place to look for God.
 
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