Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Excellent news. Why don't you name the doc so folks know a quality one to see. And I'd like to shake his hand and support him if necessary if they are targeting him.
No, it wasn't me....lol
Dr. Bob
Cadillac Doctor Accused of Illegally Prescribing Med. Marijuana
- Thread starter jesus of Cannabis
- Start date
No, it wasn't me....lol
Dr. Bob
tomcatjones
Active Member
Dr. Proctor? was his name, i do believe. i could be incorrect. but yes it was very good to see.
and i didn't mean they targeting him as in the doc from the case.. i meant doctor harwell, horowell?
http://www.drbobmmj.com/162-article-folder/277-dr-harwell-arrested-in-cadillac.html
As many of you have heard, Dr. Harwell of Triple M Clinics was arrested in Cadillac last week. This is going to be an important case for medical marijuana in Michigan. Dr. Harwell is a competitor of mine, the only significant clinic other than mine in N. Michigan. The issue is not so much how he did certifications, which is different than my approach, but the nature of the charges.
The doc is accused of taking a patient complaint of headache and transforming that into 'severe and chronic pain'. He is accused of conspiring with the patient by asking something along the line of 'these headaches, are they chronic?'.
Whether he is a good doctor, or has good interview skills, or asks leading questions to a false diagnosis is a matter for the medical board, not a criminal court. Pre-signed certifications, certifications issued with no medical records and no doctor/patient contact, and the like are fraud. That is a criminal act. That is 'selling signatures' for a schedule 1 controlled substance. That is not what happened.
For a doctor to be charged criminally I would think that there would need to be a misdiagnosis of a potentially correctable condition that caused the patient to get sick or die. Or the wrong leg being amputated, or the wrong dosage of the wrong drug administered which caused the patient harm. In each of these situations, incompetence on the part of the doctor result in death or injury to the patient. Assault, manslaughter, etc would be the charge. Billing for procedures never performed or presigning prescription pads or certs, these are criminal acts of fraud.
What we have here appears to me to be a situation where a physician with 50 years experience made some questionable calls to recommend what is in reality a completely harmless substance with no adverse effect on the patient. After 50 years of medical service, I believe Dr. Harwell has EARNED the right to make a call on a patient's diagnosis and the chronicity of their condition based on the complaint. Headaches rarely occur ONCE, people that get them, get them chronically.
The problem here, at worse, is a doc a little loose with his pad, a little too concerned about 'making a sale', a little too empathetic with the patient maybe. These aren't criminal acts, they don't harm the patient beyond making them vulnerable to the attack of a prosecutor by gutting their section 8 defense. That is a matter for the medical board to deal with on an ethical and professional basis.
If this charge is allowed to stand unanswered, every cerfication done by a certification center in Michigan will open the physician to felony level criminal charges. To characterize pain as 'chronic' or 'severe' as required by the Act will be opened second guessing by prosecutors and juries across the state, and certifications will grind to a halt by all but a few primary care doctors signing for their golf buddies. Without doctors willing to certifify qualified and documented patients, because they have a real fear of being arrested and paraded on SKYPE from the county lockup (and on the TV News), the entire program will cease to exist.
As many of you have heard, Dr. Harwell of Triple M Clinics was arrested in Cadillac last week. This is going to be an important case for medical marijuana in Michigan. Dr. Harwell is a competitor of mine, the only significant clinic other than mine in N. Michigan. The issue is not so much how he did certifications, which is different than my approach, but the nature of the charges.
The doc is accused of taking a patient complaint of headache and transforming that into 'severe and chronic pain'. He is accused of conspiring with the patient by asking something along the line of 'these headaches, are they chronic?'.
Whether he is a good doctor, or has good interview skills, or asks leading questions to a false diagnosis is a matter for the medical board, not a criminal court. Pre-signed certifications, certifications issued with no medical records and no doctor/patient contact, and the like are fraud. That is a criminal act. That is 'selling signatures' for a schedule 1 controlled substance. That is not what happened.
For a doctor to be charged criminally I would think that there would need to be a misdiagnosis of a potentially correctable condition that caused the patient to get sick or die. Or the wrong leg being amputated, or the wrong dosage of the wrong drug administered which caused the patient harm. In each of these situations, incompetence on the part of the doctor result in death or injury to the patient. Assault, manslaughter, etc would be the charge. Billing for procedures never performed or presigning prescription pads or certs, these are criminal acts of fraud.
What we have here appears to me to be a situation where a physician with 50 years experience made some questionable calls to recommend what is in reality a completely harmless substance with no adverse effect on the patient. After 50 years of medical service, I believe Dr. Harwell has EARNED the right to make a call on a patient's diagnosis and the chronicity of their condition based on the complaint. Headaches rarely occur ONCE, people that get them, get them chronically.
The problem here, at worse, is a doc a little loose with his pad, a little too concerned about 'making a sale', a little too empathetic with the patient maybe. These aren't criminal acts, they don't harm the patient beyond making them vulnerable to the attack of a prosecutor by gutting their section 8 defense. That is a matter for the medical board to deal with on an ethical and professional basis.
If this charge is allowed to stand unanswered, every cerfication done by a certification center in Michigan will open the physician to felony level criminal charges. To characterize pain as 'chronic' or 'severe' as required by the Act will be opened second guessing by prosecutors and juries across the state, and certifications will grind to a halt by all but a few primary care doctors signing for their golf buddies. Without doctors willing to certifify qualified and documented patients, because they have a real fear of being arrested and paraded on SKYPE from the county lockup (and on the TV News), the entire program will cease to exist.
TooRare2Die
Active Member
Vernon proctor? He was my doc.. im in genesee county.
bloodytrichomes
New Member
dr david crocker @michigan hollistic health he is in grand rapids
eyeball696
Active Member
Is their another doctor in the Cadillac, TC area?
HomeLessBeans
New Member
just dr bob as far as I kno.
last one of mine to see him wanted to punch him out and take his money back....funny cause the dude is normally real calm.. gotta get the hole story
eyeball696
Active Member
Can you be alitttle more specific on dr bob like location. My inlaws are certifying up in that area.
HomeLessBeans
New Member
Traverse City
3291 Racquet Club Drive, Suite C
Traverse City, MI 49684
toll free 877-600-0910
Tel:231-421-8000
www.ChronicCertCenter.com
ask for Misty
3291 Racquet Club Drive, Suite C
Traverse City, MI 49684
toll free 877-600-0910
Tel:231-421-8000
www.ChronicCertCenter.com
ask for Misty
Resinxtractor
Well-Known Member
I just had 3 patients of mine get reverts from Dr bobs in tc and all three said it was a bigger joke than going to Dr harwell. 2 of them said they saw a Dr over the telescreen and one patient saw a physical real doc in the office. All 3 patients did not see speak or get a signature from Dr bob even though this is supposedly Dr bobs office.
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Actually we do track patient satisfaction with our new electronic medical record. It is quite high, which leads me to believe this story is made up.
Dr. Bob
potsnoberry
Active Member
well, i'm guessing you only track satisfied patients, because you do nothing at all for the dissatisfied clients. You can add my story (which i will post soon) to the one above, you screwed my renewal up and you, your office and your "clinic" have done nothing at all to rectify the situation. All your blather about not relying on a sec8 defense, and that is what you have relegated me to depend on while you blither and blowhard around the internet.Warning to all: MrBob is not aware of current application requirements and is still issuing certifications (months after my worthless scrip) that are being denied by lara. Don't waste your money cause once he has your money you are ancient history in his books.
Cory and trevor
Well-Known Member
I laugh when I see bob and bloodys avatar on the same page. I really do think of you
ProfessorPotSnob
New Member
Here we go again , hang on tight folks this ride can be a little rough at times but in the end our destination will never change ..
Beware of the clowns , they are smoking killer weed lol
Beware of the clowns , they are smoking killer weed lol
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Actually we correct every denied cert (about 1 in 100). There are some really silly denials out there from LARA. I've seen two perfectly filled out certs denied in the last week for unknown causes, calls to Lara don't get answers, but they are cheerfully redone and resubmitted. Some are rejected because the wrong SS paperwork was sent in by the patient. Or the caregiver checked rather than initialed the attestation. Or there was an error by the office or me like a box not checked, failure to sign or date the cert, etc. Errors are few and far between. As for the tracking, patients don't have to submit their name with the feedback, but the program does confirm they were an actual patient.
Don't forget there are some unqualified patients as well that don't get certified (or charged) that may be upset. But mostly it is the folks that don't like the standards I support or me personally that tend to scream the loudest. Can't please everyone all the time.
Take care, back the the MMMA I go. Not here to bicker with folks. I mostly just stop by here to see what is going on in this segment of the community.
Dr. Bob
Don't forget there are some unqualified patients as well that don't get certified (or charged) that may be upset. But mostly it is the folks that don't like the standards I support or me personally that tend to scream the loudest. Can't please everyone all the time.
Take care, back the the MMMA I go. Not here to bicker with folks. I mostly just stop by here to see what is going on in this segment of the community.
Dr. Bob
