Calling all chemists and botanists! Let's put an end to overpriced nutes!

JR Peters only ships to the US, here is a tub of part 1 at amazon, dont know if they will ship to uk

http://www.amazon.com/Jacks-Hydroponic-5-12-26-Plant-Soluble/dp/B00B9FGNX8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1376853455&sr=8-2&keywords=jacks+hydroponic

Check on the shipping though, shipping a few pounds of powder overseas might be more expensive then it is worth.

DB

I just use cheap vigra grow . 11 35 14 . from start to finish. found at homedepo or lowes k mart walmarts. let the other guy use 300dollar . nutes

Thanks, I should've known, the uk is a closed market to all but the biggest marketers.

Y0da said:

Thanks, I should've known, the uk is a closed market to all but the biggest marketers.

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It might have to do with shipping large amounts of nitrates overseas

biochemistry/botany drop out........pot grower, hate bs.....so I like to roll with nature fine tuned with a bit of modern chemistry, want excellent results as I need the money from my grows to feed a large family, cant fanny about with products I don't understand with no npk, so I make my own soil from biobizz all mix with mychorrizae, bat guano, blood-bone-fish, bone, coco perlite and a dash of Epsom salts, then all I need to do is feed with biobizz grow and bloom which are as expensive as I am prepared to go. I don't use sugars or aminos or boost. I do use filtered water and towards the end I have started to use a mineral salt product called ripen 0-6-5 which makes sense to me. grow 10 oz plants

indikat said:

biochemistry/botany drop out........pot grower, hate bs.....so I like to roll with nature fine tuned with a bit of modern chemistry, want excellent results as I need the money from my grows to feed a large family, cant fanny about with products I don't understand with no npk, so I make my own soil from biobizz all mix with mychorrizae, bat guano, blood-bone-fish, bone, coco perlite and a dash of Epsom salts, then all I need to do is feed with biobizz grow and bloom which are as expensive as I am prepared to go. I don't use sugars or aminos or boost. I do use filtered water and towards the end I have started to use a mineral salt product called ripen 0-6-5 which makes sense to me. grow 10 oz plants

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Hey indikat, what strains work best for you? The Epsom Salt you are adding seems to be what Sweet is doing, the small amount of sugar in Sweet probably does not have nearly the effect of the Epsom Salt. I think the Epsom is doing something to the plant's growth mechanism, not feeding the plant, but causing it to uptake more nutes or speed up it's 'metabolism, something like that. The humic and fulvic acid products claim to do that, wish I knew more about how all that worked. But results are what matters, sounds like you got something that works.

Started a new thread in the nutrients sub section, hoping to see some results of grows using this formula. My hydro test is doing fine and I am following the directions on the jug of Sweet: 10ml per gallon during veg and 15-20ml per gallon during flower.

Now that I can make this stuff cheaply I will use it at the rate suggested on the label, and not be so stingy with it.

Mamma Ganja and I both agreeded it was Jimi just now.

Blending your own fertilizer would take a lot of time to get it right. I've seen it done but the result were sub par after a few years of him trying. Not that it can't be done I just think that even $1500 worth of fertilizer is saving money over a few carp grows.
If you want cheap and dank make some supper soil, living organics is the best additive

420circuit said:

Hey indikat, what strains work best for you? The Epsom Salt you are adding seems to be what Sweet is doing, the small amount of sugar in Sweet probably does not have nearly the effect of the Epsom Salt. I think the Epsom is doing something to the plant's growth mechanism, not feeding the plant, but causing it to uptake more nutes or speed up it's 'metabolism, something like that. The humic and fulvic acid products claim to do that, wish I knew more about how all that worked. But results are what matters, sounds like you got something that works.

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sorry for the late reply.........since the last post I have been making ACT and feeding only this in flower, exo needs more calcium cos its a cheese...no shit...but the 2 weeks from harvest I start the ripen omg dence aint the word

^^^^^ sorry man the strains are ..uk clone only;..exodus cheese, exodus psychosis (a fruity cheese and legend) liver/blues...seed phenos are a mainlined for 4 blue pit from the brilliant breeders boutique and an equally amazing tho smaller mainlinred soma amnesia haze but ready in 9 weeks not 13 so it gonna get revegged and will be another clone only if all is well

There is no rocket science to nutrients. I guess the question is more work or less....Less here for sure, I gladly pay my money to not have the headaches you are venturing in on. JAS

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:

There is no rocket science to nutrients. I guess the question is more work or less....Less here for sure, I gladly pay my money to not have the headaches you are venturing in on. JAS

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great post, real informative. must be bored on sunday afternoon, are the gay porn sites down, sir ganga?

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:

There is no rocket science to nutrients. I guess the question is more work or less....Less here for sure, I gladly pay my money to not have the headaches you are venturing in on. JAS

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wtf do you mean ...rocket science ffs this is nt even botany

Do not use white sugar cane. Close friend's father use to work in a sugar cane refinery in Florida. When asked how they made the brown sugar white, it depended on what was cheap to buy the day needed, white gasoline or acetone. This was some years ago and US rules may have banned the their use. But a lot of cane sugar come from outside the US. Brown sugar isn't put through this process.

Man, I don't know. Put some manure and compost (costs close to $2-5 per pot at MOST) together with some perlite and you have all the nutes you need imo.

I have an M.S. in chemistry

Bigby said:

Anyone with the skill to make such products will either make them for themselves, or will be a businessman and will exploit that ability. You are attempting to combine the two. Why would anyone wish to release a product as charity? Anyone prepared to do that would be better investing such efforts into changing the social order that caused it to be necessary.

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I've been asked if I plan on "selling" soils, ferts and my extracts online by many members here. I have gained a WHOLE LOT of knowledge (Botanical and otherwise) from sites such as RIU, and would be completely remiss if I didn't pay that forward. As such, I freely give away what I have learned in the hope that I can help one grower NOT make the mistakes I did when I first started out. And there are MANY like-minded people out there. As big a "train-wreck" as this place can be, I'm still here. I sure miss overgrow.

canefan said:

IMHO if you want the best at the best price then true organics are the way to go, I am not saying so-called organics you buy in the store. I am a cheap bastard when it comes to my grows, gardening and such but here I am lucky I have lots of space unlike many here that are in apartments. If you live in a house and have a yard even a small one you can be organic easily. I make my own compost, kitchen scraps no meat or dairy products, lots of grass clippings, leaves combination of green and brown. I use native soil add my compost with wood ash and manures, horse and cow being my favorite soley because they are the easiest for me to obtain, rabbit is wonderful. My soil tends to carry a plant through its entire cycle without adding anything else on most strains that I am growing.Many strains I have grown did require more teas to get through their cycle but that is where the manures come in for teas. I have bought and do use commercial products, so called organic types but their use is limited and mostly used now only on side by side comparisons of my grows. It takes time, finding what you need and learning what mix works best but the end product for me is worth the extra work. There is lots of material on the internet for good composting practices, I realize that many folks don't have the time or the space to be truly organic but depending on your number of plants 5 or less you don't need much over a 4x4 space to make your compost. If I can be of further help please feel free to PM me I am happy to help.

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Cane, I've admired many of your posts. The only problem with this idea, and I agree wholeheartedly with it, is logistics and determination. If I calculated my time and gas running around just collecting bunny poop, egg shells and such, I'd be sick!!! My profit margin would drop like the Dow. Not everyone has the ambition, or the time and resources to do what we do for our "hobby".

420circuit said:

I use a hydro/aero/NFT system so composting isn't for me. I simply want to know how to make nutes like the stores are selling, starting with Sweet from Botanicare. I believe that it is sugar, maybe fructose and sucrose, and water. I suppose I should try a grow without adding anything other than the basic Jack's and see how it comes out.

But if anyone knows how to make Sweet at home, please post it up!

And please explain why a picture of Jimi has Bob's name at the bottom. I can dig that there are others who are fans of both musicians, but it just seems a bit twisted up, like chewing aluminum foil.

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While you're in hydroponics, IMHO yer screwed if ya wanna go organic. Hydroponics was developed as a viable means to grow crops (food) in an otherwise hostile environment. It was developed with the use of water soluble chemical salt ferts in mind. Organics is dependent upon a good colony of nitrogen fixing bacteria and mycorrhizal fungi to further decompose organic matter (the ferts) and I just cant get my mind around exactly how one would keep the micro-herd healthy in that environment.
BUT...to answer the question, I believe that sweet is just a mollasses preparation beefed up with aminos, humic and fulvic acids. Seems to me I read an analysis on that subject a couple years ago. Might have been when Adv Nutr was under attack tho, and applied to one of thier products.

In my hydro-NFT system I try to use the best of both worlds, I add mycorrhiza to the nutrients and have had great results and so far no pests. The Sweet seems to help. I also add CalMag from Botanicare to the Jack's mix. Not sure how the 'good bugs' like living in the water drenched roots, but everything is healthy and the plants are growing fine.
4 and 1/2 weeks into flower, Meltdown from 303 seeds on the right and Blueberry on the left.

Cal-Mag from Botanicare, an essential additive that brings Calcium and Magnesium, plus a trace of Iron. Here is the label:



Notice the ingredients, Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Nitrate are the primary ingredients.

You may recall that Sweet is mainly Magnesium Sulfate, so let's just use Sweet to provide Magnesium to the plants and focus on Calcium. If you don't want to use Sweet, cross out the word Sweet and write Mag on the bottle.

Calcium Nitrate sells for about $3 a pound online, I got a 5 pound bag for $15 delivered.


The Cal-Mag labels shows us that it contains 2% Nitrogen and the total weight of the package is 366 grams, so 7.32g is N. The Calcium Nitrate is 15.5% N, so that works out to about 48g of Cal Nit in a jug of Cal-Mag. 48 grams worked out to about 10 Tablespoons. So put 10 TBSP of Cal Nit into a pan of water, heat while stirring until dissolved, cool, pour into a jug with cold water to fill and you have a jug of Cal-X, just Calcium. It also contains 2% Nitrogen, just like store bought Cal-Mag. The application rate should be the same as with the original, except you will have to use Sweet to get Magnesium. This gives you a bit more control over what you add by separating the Cal and Mag.

This seems too easy, what am I doing wrong? I made up a batch because I ran out of Cal-Mag and plan to use it with the next nute change.