So I did the PF Tek thing in a shotgun chamber, it worked out pretty well. The yield wasn't anything crazy though, also it was kind of a pain in the ass. I'm thinking of ordering some presterilzed wbs bags and knocking those up for my first bigger grow, and if it makes sense to do it again I'll probably get a pressure cooker and do everything myself. The premade bags aren't really that expensive considering the time it saves. I want to spawn to coir, I'm really not sure where to go from there. I could read a ton of conflicting opinions and try to piece something together, but I'd rather just read a nice tutorial. Any recommendations?
Can Anyone Suggest a Good Tutorial on Bulk Substrate? wbs coir
- Thread starter uallach
- Start date
DarthD3vl
Well-Known Member
i'd use poo as first choice, coir is very finicky lots of chance for contams, i've used it before.. but poo is very cheap easily found and soo much better. but if you have to use coir, just substitute coir for poo, and follow poo tek exactly... i think some people add crushed oyster and stuff to their coir also, i never did.
this one uses both coir and poo?? but its my favorite bulk grow tutorial.
https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/395504-bulk-mono-tek-pictorial.html
this one uses both coir and poo?? but its my favorite bulk grow tutorial.
https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/395504-bulk-mono-tek-pictorial.html
Nepaljam x Oaxaca
Active Member
Greetings All!
Been growing cannabis and shrooms for a good while but I think it's time I gave a little something back.
Several friends have requested a setup and grow tutorial to help get them started.
I have not included some common household things like drills and paper towels because I expect most people will have access to these items. If you need something not listed, you will no doubt find a way to get it.
I make my own spawn bags and spore prints but this is simply a guide for starting a grow as quick, cheap, and simple as possible.
I have included a suggested quantity and approximate prices for the components needed.
Shopping List:
Qty: (4) Clear 18-22 gallon tote with handles to keep the lid on tight - $10 each
(Pic for reference.)
Qty: (10) Tyvek Envelopes - Free
(These can be found for free in your local Post Office or ordered online from the USPS. Look for the Priority or Express Tyvek envelopes.)
Qty: (1) Box of black trash bags - $5
(Heavy Duty. This is the bottom liner, it keeps the shrooms from pinning on the sides and makes disposal very easy.)
Qty: (2) Oust Air Sanitizers - $3 each
(Very important to sanitize air before you ever open tubs for maintenance)
Qty: (1) Large White Vinegar Bottle - $3
(Used to sanitize tubs initially and between grows)
Qty: (2) Large Rubbing Alcohol Bottles - $1.50 each
(Used to sanitize tools and gloves when performing maintenance)
Qty: (10) Large Hydrogen Peroxide Bottles - $2 each
(This is added in small amounts to the substrate to kill bad bacteria and help the fungus grow)
Qty: (1) Roll Gorilla tape - $7
(Very important to get the gorilla brand)
Qty: (1) Sterno or similar alcohol based fuel source - $3
(Used to sterilize needles)
Qty: (1) Box of alcohol pads - $3
(Used to cool sterilized needles and sterilize injection site)
Qty: (1) Box face mask/respirator - $5
( Worn every time you work on the tubs w/out exception)
Qty: (4) 5 gallon buckets w/ lid - $7 each
(you pasteurize the substrate inside the buckets)
Qty: (1) Container of Soil Moist Polymer Crystals - $20
(these are placed at the bottom of the monotubs to soak up excess water and keep the mycelium hydrated as they fruit. You can find these at a Home Depots, Lowes, or Wal Mart)
Qty: (1) Bale of coco coir - $14
(this is the substrate that the shrooms grow in)
Qty: (1 lb) Crushed Oyster Shells - $1
(Calcium Carbonate - added in small amounts to the substrate to aid growth)
Qty: (1 lb) Gypsum - $1
(Calcium Sulfate - added in small amounts to the substrate to aid growth)
Qty: (1) Fluorescent light - $8
(this stimulates fruiting when it's time to fruit)
Qty: (1) Box of gloves - $6
(always wear gloves when performing maintenance)
Qty: (4) Spawn bags - $16
(one for each strain of shrooms you buy. 1 spore needle to each bag, 1 bag to each tote)
Qty: (1) 2" Hole saw - $10
(this is used to drill the gas exchange holes in the totes)
Qty: (4) Spore syringes of your choice - $ 15 each
(I would recommend B+, Penis Envy, Golden Teacher, and Mazatlan for starters)
Overall to start up will cost about $2-300 for this full setup. The best part is that the spawn bags and spores are the only components you will have to pay for again any time soon. Everything else will last for several runs and the monotubs will last as long as you want them to.
Spawn Bag Inoculation:
You will want to order the spawn bags and spore syringes first. They usually take about a month to fully colonize.
1. Label the bags with each strain ordered.
2. Light the sterno or alcohol lamp .
3. Wipe the spawn bag injection port with an alcohol pad.
4. Uncap the syringe and place the tip over the flame of the sterno/alcohol lamp till it glows slightly.
5. Cool the tip of the syringe by wiping it carefully with an alcohol pad.
6. Insert syringe into spawn bag and inject contents.
7. Recap syringe and dispose of properly.
Next, take the bags and place them somewhere warm (74-84 F) and completely dark. I prefer placing mine in an opaque tote with a seedling heat mat underneath.
Monotub Build:
When using these monotubs you only have to open the tub to harvest and occasionally add moisture. I think this is one of the easiest and most idiot proof methods of growing shrooms.
Depending on the height of the tub you will need 2-4 holes opposite sides of the tote. The holes don't need to be any specific distance apart, I just prefer that they are as uniform as possible.
It is important that the center of the lowest holes is 6" above the bottom of the tote. This places them at the level of the substrate and allows for optimum gas exchange.
1. Use 2" hole saw to drill at least 4 holes total 6" from the bottom of the tote.
2. Use a sharp knife to smooth off all the plastic shavings still attached to the holes.
3. Cut 3"x3" squares from the Tyvek Envelopes.
(You will need 2 squares per hole. 1 inside and 1 outside.
4. Tear strips of gorilla tape by ripping it in half lengthwise.
5. Tape a Tyvek square to the inside and outside of each hole you have drilled.
Monotub Prep:
Alright, now that you have monotubs built it's time to get ready to fill them with colonized spawn bags. You need to perform this step once your spawn bags have fully colonized and you are ready to transfer them to the monotubs.
1. Take clean paper towels and soak with white vinegar.
2. Wipe down entire inside surface of totes.
3. Take clean paper towels and soak with alcohol.
4. Wipe down entire inside surface of totes.
5. As the tote is drying, turn it upside down and place a black trash bag on the bottom to figure out how much excess needs to be trimmed.
6. Trim back the excess trash bag so that it will not go above the gas exchange holes.
7. Once the tote is almost dry, place the tras hbag in the bottom of the tote and use strips of gorilla tape to secure it to the sides of the tote. (I like to place the trash bag in the tote when there is still a little alcohol present to help hold it in place and sterilize it a bit)
8. Wipe down trash bag with alcohol.
9. Wipe down lid with vinegar and alcohol and place it on the tote.
Substrate Prep:
1. Bring water to a boil in a very large pot.
2. Crumble bits of coco coir into each 5 gallon bucket till it is about 1/5 full.
3. Add a few tablespoons of Gypsum and Crushed Oyster Shells to the coco coir.
4. Add the boiling water till it is covers the expanding coco coir. (the coir usually expands to within a few inches from the top of the bucket)
5. Replace the lid on the 5 gallon bucket and allow it to cool to room temp again. (6-8 hours)
6. Put on gloves
7. Pour off the excess water from the buckets while pressing on the coco coir. (there should be no standing water in the bottom of the bucket)
8. Evenly scatter a handful of Polymer Crystals in the bottom of the monotub.
9. Pour an even layer of coco coir from the 5 gallon bucket till it's about 1-2" thick.
10. Wipe the outside of the spawn bag with alcohol and cut the top off.
11. Pour the contents of the spawn bag into the monotub, crumbling the mycelium into smaller pieces as you pour.
12. Cover the spawn bag contents with the remaining coco coir until it is about 1/2" from the top of the trash bag liner in the monotub.
13. Evenly pour approximately 2 cups of Hydrogen Peroxide over the entire substrate.
14. Close the lid.
It will now take about 1 more month for the mycelium to colonize the new substate you have placed it in. Again, it needs to be in a dark, warm place.
Once the tub contents have begun to turn fuzzy and white it is probably close to fruiting time.
Once it is completely colonized, place the tubs under a fluorescent light for about 12-16 hours a day.
Harvesting:
You will initially see lots of tiny heads (primordia) forming once you begin fruiting. Those will eventually develop into mushrooms (fruit).
You need to harvest before the veil (annulus) on the bottom of the mushroom cap has broken away to reveal the gills on the underside of the cap. You don't want the shrooms blasting their spores everywhere. If they do it will reduce the number of flushes you can obtain from each monotub.
1. Put on respirator/face mask.
2. Put on gloves.
3. Spray Oust Air sanitizer liberally in the area you will be working. (ensure there are no fans or anything generating air movement)
4. Wipe gloves with alcohol.
5. Open lid and hold with one hand.
6. With your free hand reach in and gently twist each mushroom from the mycelium without touching the sides and place aside.
7. Once you have removed the mature fruits leaving the smaller ones to develop, level the surface with any loose substrate and make sure not to leave chunks of fruit broken off on the surface.
8. Gently replace lid
* Occasionally you will notice the substrate shrinking away from the sides a little. When this happens you will need to follow the same precautions as above and add about 1 cup of Hydrogen Peroxide to each monotub after harvesting. Fungus produces natural peroxides to fight off competitors. Adding H2O2 helps keep bad bacteria from gaining a foothold as well as adding H2O (water) to the mycelium.
Drying:
You can use any number of methods to dry your shrooms. I simply went and purchased a food dehydrator for $45.
Another simple method is to simply place a fan above the shrooms on a plate. You need to be sure that the shrooms are absolutely cracker dry before placing in bags. The slightest bit of moisture can cause them to rot.
Cleanup:
Once your monotubs have stopped producing fruit or become contaminated it's time to dispose of giant chunk of mycelium in the bottom of the tub. It's very important to also dispose of the Tyvek squares, trash bag, and any tape. The only thing you want to keep is the tub itself. Give it a good rinse with water and then a good rub with vinegar or alcohol. Don't use a household cleaner because they tend to leave behind residues, many of which are harmful to fungi.
Been growing cannabis and shrooms for a good while but I think it's time I gave a little something back.
Several friends have requested a setup and grow tutorial to help get them started.
I have not included some common household things like drills and paper towels because I expect most people will have access to these items. If you need something not listed, you will no doubt find a way to get it.
I make my own spawn bags and spore prints but this is simply a guide for starting a grow as quick, cheap, and simple as possible.
I have included a suggested quantity and approximate prices for the components needed.
Shopping List:
Qty: (4) Clear 18-22 gallon tote with handles to keep the lid on tight - $10 each
(Pic for reference.)
Qty: (10) Tyvek Envelopes - Free
(These can be found for free in your local Post Office or ordered online from the USPS. Look for the Priority or Express Tyvek envelopes.)
Qty: (1) Box of black trash bags - $5
(Heavy Duty. This is the bottom liner, it keeps the shrooms from pinning on the sides and makes disposal very easy.)
Qty: (2) Oust Air Sanitizers - $3 each
(Very important to sanitize air before you ever open tubs for maintenance)
Qty: (1) Large White Vinegar Bottle - $3
(Used to sanitize tubs initially and between grows)
Qty: (2) Large Rubbing Alcohol Bottles - $1.50 each
(Used to sanitize tools and gloves when performing maintenance)
Qty: (10) Large Hydrogen Peroxide Bottles - $2 each
(This is added in small amounts to the substrate to kill bad bacteria and help the fungus grow)
Qty: (1) Roll Gorilla tape - $7
(Very important to get the gorilla brand)
Qty: (1) Sterno or similar alcohol based fuel source - $3
(Used to sterilize needles)
Qty: (1) Box of alcohol pads - $3
(Used to cool sterilized needles and sterilize injection site)
Qty: (1) Box face mask/respirator - $5
( Worn every time you work on the tubs w/out exception)
Qty: (4) 5 gallon buckets w/ lid - $7 each
(you pasteurize the substrate inside the buckets)
Qty: (1) Container of Soil Moist Polymer Crystals - $20
(these are placed at the bottom of the monotubs to soak up excess water and keep the mycelium hydrated as they fruit. You can find these at a Home Depots, Lowes, or Wal Mart)
Qty: (1) Bale of coco coir - $14
(this is the substrate that the shrooms grow in)
Qty: (1 lb) Crushed Oyster Shells - $1
(Calcium Carbonate - added in small amounts to the substrate to aid growth)
Qty: (1 lb) Gypsum - $1
(Calcium Sulfate - added in small amounts to the substrate to aid growth)
Qty: (1) Fluorescent light - $8
(this stimulates fruiting when it's time to fruit)
Qty: (1) Box of gloves - $6
(always wear gloves when performing maintenance)
Qty: (4) Spawn bags - $16
(one for each strain of shrooms you buy. 1 spore needle to each bag, 1 bag to each tote)
Qty: (1) 2" Hole saw - $10
(this is used to drill the gas exchange holes in the totes)
Qty: (4) Spore syringes of your choice - $ 15 each
(I would recommend B+, Penis Envy, Golden Teacher, and Mazatlan for starters)
Overall to start up will cost about $2-300 for this full setup. The best part is that the spawn bags and spores are the only components you will have to pay for again any time soon. Everything else will last for several runs and the monotubs will last as long as you want them to.
Spawn Bag Inoculation:
You will want to order the spawn bags and spore syringes first. They usually take about a month to fully colonize.
1. Label the bags with each strain ordered.
2. Light the sterno or alcohol lamp .
3. Wipe the spawn bag injection port with an alcohol pad.
4. Uncap the syringe and place the tip over the flame of the sterno/alcohol lamp till it glows slightly.
5. Cool the tip of the syringe by wiping it carefully with an alcohol pad.
6. Insert syringe into spawn bag and inject contents.
7. Recap syringe and dispose of properly.
Next, take the bags and place them somewhere warm (74-84 F) and completely dark. I prefer placing mine in an opaque tote with a seedling heat mat underneath.
Monotub Build:
When using these monotubs you only have to open the tub to harvest and occasionally add moisture. I think this is one of the easiest and most idiot proof methods of growing shrooms.
Depending on the height of the tub you will need 2-4 holes opposite sides of the tote. The holes don't need to be any specific distance apart, I just prefer that they are as uniform as possible.
It is important that the center of the lowest holes is 6" above the bottom of the tote. This places them at the level of the substrate and allows for optimum gas exchange.
1. Use 2" hole saw to drill at least 4 holes total 6" from the bottom of the tote.
2. Use a sharp knife to smooth off all the plastic shavings still attached to the holes.
3. Cut 3"x3" squares from the Tyvek Envelopes.
(You will need 2 squares per hole. 1 inside and 1 outside.
4. Tear strips of gorilla tape by ripping it in half lengthwise.
5. Tape a Tyvek square to the inside and outside of each hole you have drilled.
Monotub Prep:
Alright, now that you have monotubs built it's time to get ready to fill them with colonized spawn bags. You need to perform this step once your spawn bags have fully colonized and you are ready to transfer them to the monotubs.
1. Take clean paper towels and soak with white vinegar.
2. Wipe down entire inside surface of totes.
3. Take clean paper towels and soak with alcohol.
4. Wipe down entire inside surface of totes.
5. As the tote is drying, turn it upside down and place a black trash bag on the bottom to figure out how much excess needs to be trimmed.
6. Trim back the excess trash bag so that it will not go above the gas exchange holes.
7. Once the tote is almost dry, place the tras hbag in the bottom of the tote and use strips of gorilla tape to secure it to the sides of the tote. (I like to place the trash bag in the tote when there is still a little alcohol present to help hold it in place and sterilize it a bit)
8. Wipe down trash bag with alcohol.
9. Wipe down lid with vinegar and alcohol and place it on the tote.
Substrate Prep:
1. Bring water to a boil in a very large pot.
2. Crumble bits of coco coir into each 5 gallon bucket till it is about 1/5 full.
3. Add a few tablespoons of Gypsum and Crushed Oyster Shells to the coco coir.
4. Add the boiling water till it is covers the expanding coco coir. (the coir usually expands to within a few inches from the top of the bucket)
5. Replace the lid on the 5 gallon bucket and allow it to cool to room temp again. (6-8 hours)
6. Put on gloves
7. Pour off the excess water from the buckets while pressing on the coco coir. (there should be no standing water in the bottom of the bucket)
8. Evenly scatter a handful of Polymer Crystals in the bottom of the monotub.
9. Pour an even layer of coco coir from the 5 gallon bucket till it's about 1-2" thick.
10. Wipe the outside of the spawn bag with alcohol and cut the top off.
11. Pour the contents of the spawn bag into the monotub, crumbling the mycelium into smaller pieces as you pour.
12. Cover the spawn bag contents with the remaining coco coir until it is about 1/2" from the top of the trash bag liner in the monotub.
13. Evenly pour approximately 2 cups of Hydrogen Peroxide over the entire substrate.
14. Close the lid.
It will now take about 1 more month for the mycelium to colonize the new substate you have placed it in. Again, it needs to be in a dark, warm place.
Once the tub contents have begun to turn fuzzy and white it is probably close to fruiting time.
Once it is completely colonized, place the tubs under a fluorescent light for about 12-16 hours a day.
Harvesting:
You will initially see lots of tiny heads (primordia) forming once you begin fruiting. Those will eventually develop into mushrooms (fruit).
You need to harvest before the veil (annulus) on the bottom of the mushroom cap has broken away to reveal the gills on the underside of the cap. You don't want the shrooms blasting their spores everywhere. If they do it will reduce the number of flushes you can obtain from each monotub.
1. Put on respirator/face mask.
2. Put on gloves.
3. Spray Oust Air sanitizer liberally in the area you will be working. (ensure there are no fans or anything generating air movement)
4. Wipe gloves with alcohol.
5. Open lid and hold with one hand.
6. With your free hand reach in and gently twist each mushroom from the mycelium without touching the sides and place aside.
7. Once you have removed the mature fruits leaving the smaller ones to develop, level the surface with any loose substrate and make sure not to leave chunks of fruit broken off on the surface.
8. Gently replace lid
* Occasionally you will notice the substrate shrinking away from the sides a little. When this happens you will need to follow the same precautions as above and add about 1 cup of Hydrogen Peroxide to each monotub after harvesting. Fungus produces natural peroxides to fight off competitors. Adding H2O2 helps keep bad bacteria from gaining a foothold as well as adding H2O (water) to the mycelium.
Drying:
You can use any number of methods to dry your shrooms. I simply went and purchased a food dehydrator for $45.
Another simple method is to simply place a fan above the shrooms on a plate. You need to be sure that the shrooms are absolutely cracker dry before placing in bags. The slightest bit of moisture can cause them to rot.
Cleanup:
Once your monotubs have stopped producing fruit or become contaminated it's time to dispose of giant chunk of mycelium in the bottom of the tub. It's very important to also dispose of the Tyvek squares, trash bag, and any tape. The only thing you want to keep is the tub itself. Give it a good rinse with water and then a good rub with vinegar or alcohol. Don't use a household cleaner because they tend to leave behind residues, many of which are harmful to fungi.
greenesthaze
Well-Known Member
I will be doibg the wbs tek soon. If everything is sanitary won't the risk of contam be minimal?
Can you boil the coir before use or will high heat kill the substrate.
Can you boil the coir before use or will high heat kill the substrate.
DarthD3vl
Well-Known Member
make sure you pasturize the coir.. pasturization seems to work best.
the reason i feel coir is more susceptible to contams than poo is colonizing the coir has always taken me longer than the poo, giving more time for contams to take place and take over.. if your fully steril you shouldn't have to worry about contam from either.. but its hard to be that steril.
sonar
Well-Known Member
Try Damion5050's Coir Tek. Simple and effective. I usually pull between 6-8oz from one of these tubs with popcorn spawn. I only use 1 quart of verm instead of 2 though. I don't think coir is finnicky at all. If anything, it is the easiest. Very easy to pasterize using the bucket and lid and it practically contam proof. This past tub I spawned late November and is still throwing off small flushes.
How to do Coir
How to do Coir
canndo
Well-Known Member
Coir, well some coir is purposefully contaminated with Trichoderma. Don't ask me why, I can't figure it out but I have read several recountings of how coir is dealt with, it is usually aged, sometimes washed and then dried, from that point it is shredded or cut and then "contaminated". there must be some horticultural reason for the contamination but I don't know what it is - maybe some more kmowlegeable person can say. Now, I have used coir with varying sucess but never as a primary (or secondary) substrate, it always seemed too nutrionaly empty but seeing as how cubensis is a primary decomposer it shouldn't matter - of course depending upon the celulitic composition of the stuff.You may have problems with coir if it has a high salt content.
If you have trouble with obtaining horse manure you can always go to worm castings, they are not as nutrionaly rich (at all, apparently) but a 50/25/25 mix castings, coarse coir and coarse vermiculite will work quite well - IF and only if you can get the moisture content right. These strategies are most appropriate if you intend to keep your grain usage to a minimum. your over all best bet is always popcorn as in the right places you can get it for 50 cents a pound. Those who want bulk gravitate toward grain spawn to bulk substrait if they want larger fruit, more flushes and wish to save on substrate. There really is no reason other than those mentioned to spend the extra time and resources to go to a bulk substrate. Corn alone will often give you three flushes without much of a problem. OF course there are other extenuating cercumstances. If you have contaminated your growing area it is best to alter your substrate now and then, a perpetual atmosphere of boiled corn will soon encourage contamination that is more selective to that substrate, if you go to manure for instance, you will get a reprieve. Corn, however, will yield smaller fruit, rye even smaller for some reason, a mixture of corn and rye will give you the fastest running mycelium because the mycelium will take less time and energy jumping from kernel to kernel. If you are REALLY confident in your teqnique you can boil your grain with a small percentage of a source of basic sugar such as molassas but.... you invite disaster. Furthermore, if you place a percentage of high carbohydrate or high fat content flour you can get a very high yield.
If you have trouble with obtaining horse manure you can always go to worm castings, they are not as nutrionaly rich (at all, apparently) but a 50/25/25 mix castings, coarse coir and coarse vermiculite will work quite well - IF and only if you can get the moisture content right. These strategies are most appropriate if you intend to keep your grain usage to a minimum. your over all best bet is always popcorn as in the right places you can get it for 50 cents a pound. Those who want bulk gravitate toward grain spawn to bulk substrait if they want larger fruit, more flushes and wish to save on substrate. There really is no reason other than those mentioned to spend the extra time and resources to go to a bulk substrate. Corn alone will often give you three flushes without much of a problem. OF course there are other extenuating cercumstances. If you have contaminated your growing area it is best to alter your substrate now and then, a perpetual atmosphere of boiled corn will soon encourage contamination that is more selective to that substrate, if you go to manure for instance, you will get a reprieve. Corn, however, will yield smaller fruit, rye even smaller for some reason, a mixture of corn and rye will give you the fastest running mycelium because the mycelium will take less time and energy jumping from kernel to kernel. If you are REALLY confident in your teqnique you can boil your grain with a small percentage of a source of basic sugar such as molassas but.... you invite disaster. Furthermore, if you place a percentage of high carbohydrate or high fat content flour you can get a very high yield.
sonar
Well-Known Member
I use the stuff from the pet store sold as animal bedding and I'm loving it. I will NEVER go back to hpoo unless I am doing pans. 5 quarts popcorn spawn more or less using the tek above except only one quart of verm. Excellent water holding capacity. One of those materials that can hold large amounts of water and not become soggy. No need to leach or do any of that stuff. Just dropped in the bucket, dump your boiling water in, and cover. Although I it doesn't hurt to try to peel it away into smaller pieces so there are no dry chunks left over. If you've worked with coir before you know what I mean.
Not the most impressive flush, I know, but keep in mind I spawned this tub 2 months ago and pulled at least 6oz off of it so far. Probably closer to 1/2lb actually, plus whatever this flush yields which I predict to be at least 15g more I have another batch of spawn almost ready, but I wanted to keep this around to see how far I can take it before it contams or just stops producing. My biggest so far for a single mushroom is like 5.2g cracker dry. I'll post more pics in a few weeks once I get the next tub up and running. Now that I have it dialed in I expect even better results. I think I may have fruited this one a little early.
Not the most impressive flush, I know, but keep in mind I spawned this tub 2 months ago and pulled at least 6oz off of it so far. Probably closer to 1/2lb actually, plus whatever this flush yields which I predict to be at least 15g more I have another batch of spawn almost ready, but I wanted to keep this around to see how far I can take it before it contams or just stops producing. My biggest so far for a single mushroom is like 5.2g cracker dry. I'll post more pics in a few weeks once I get the next tub up and running. Now that I have it dialed in I expect even better results. I think I may have fruited this one a little early.