Can I fire a CMH lamp on this convertable 400W ballast?

SativaMe@420

Well-Known Member
So Ive been hearing/reading lots of good things about the Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs, especially the Philips Mastercolor Retro White ones. Supposedly they produce the best spectrum for plant growth on the market today, however the highest wattage they come in so far is 400w so for large/commercial grows you would need to use several of them or supplement other lighting, from what I hear the 400W CMH used with a 600W HPS produces INCREDIBLE results. Well here's a review of the Philips Mastercolor CMH Retro White Lamps by a grower who swears they are hands down the best grow lights on the marked today: (---->CLICK HERE<----)

Here's some product info I copied from GrowLight Express (Check out that spectrum compared to HPS on the chart below!):


Philips MasterColor Ceramic Metal Halide
HPS-Retro White Lamps


So maybe you have heard about the best grow light bulb on the marketâ&#8364;¦or maybe not - but now you have! The Philips MasterColor Ceramic Metal Halide HPS-Retro White Lamps are something new to horticulture. These bulbs are being manufactured to replace high pressure sodium (HPS) bulbs in factories and warehouses. Along comes the indoor gardener who sees the light and gets them thinking - I bet these would grow great plants! Well they do.

Grow Light Express has been testing these lamps for years and has sold lots of them. We honestly believe in these lamps. We get asked all the time if this is such a great bulb why isn't Phillips directly selling / advertising them to the horticultural markets. Well the technical reason is that with this type of bulb they would have to retool their manufacturing plants at great costs. With the coming advanced in lighting technology (and there is really some amazing stuff heading our way) we believe that they are unwilling to spend the money until the market proves worth investing further in Ceramic Metal Halide technology.
The basics:
These bulbs can be used in BOTH vegetative and bloom cycles - no more changing lamps during your grow. NO DIGITAL BALLASTS - you will destroy the bulb. ONLY use a standard coil and core HPS ballast (dont let the name confuse you). CMH bulbs cannot handle the frequencies of digital ballasts. Of course there are exceptions to this rule as there is at least one digital ballast that is designed to work with CMH lamps. They are fairly expensive and unless you know you have one of these you don't so don't try. The Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs are positional. This means that they are designed to be EITHER horizontal or vertical (they cannot be used universally) but not both. Placing the bulb in the wrong position will cause it to fail early. A tip to success is that most gardeners are reporting better success with the use of supplemental silica. Since these bulbs will make your plants grow fast, silica is helpful. Silica is involved in cell division and overall plant strength.
Benefits:
There are many benefits to these lamps. The main reason for even considering these lamps is the fantastic spectrum of light they produce. Check out the chart below to compare to output of a CMH to a HPS lamp.

As you can see there is a great deal of light energy available in the blue spectrum as well as the red. HPS lamps produce lots of light but its not the "right" light. It is true that plants can adapt and grow well under HPS but they will do better under CMH. Think of it this way, the sun, the light we are trying to reproduce inside, is full spectrum not just a lot of yellow / red. So why just give them yellow / orange? Basically HPS has become the standard for growing in supplied lighting conditions. This is mostly historical (now) because that was the best we hadâ&#8364;¦now we have alternatives.
Other benefits include they "throw" less heat, they have very little color shift (less than 200K over their life time), your plants will have less stretch (tighter internodes).
Ceramic Metal Halide FAQ:
1. I have noticed that the Ceramic Metal Halide HPS Retro bulbs produce less lumens compared to other HPS bulbs?
A: Lumens is an antiquated way of comparing grow lamps. Lumens are a scientific definition based on the human eye and NOT on a plants response curve. This is the hardest part for people considering trying the CMH's to get past. We have been snowed over by the manufacturers just focusing on the max lumens.

2. When are bigger wattage bulbs going to be available?
A: Humâ&#8364;¦sometime soon if Phillips keeps their promise! Also there is some new Ceramic Metal Halide technology on the horizon. This may keep bigger wattages of the market but the good news is that the new ones maybe extremely more efficient so you may not need bigger wattages. We will keep you posted on this!!

3. Will they run on my DIGITAL ballast?
A: NO (unless you have a specifically designed digital ballast for CMH lamps). They must be used in HPS ballast.
For additional information refer to the specification sheet for Ceramic Metal Halide Bulbs from Phillips.
 

darkdestruction420

Well-Known Member
Well, ive used cmh before and in my experience it doesnt outperform a h.o spectrally enhanced hps bulb. I was kind of disappointed cuz i read something just like that and really got excited too.
 

SativaMe@420

Well-Known Member
Well, ive used cmh before and in my experience it doesnt outperform a h.o spectrally enhanced hps bulb. I was kind of disappointed cuz i read something just like that and really got excited too.
I'd be willing to bet hard ca$h that you were using a GE or some other CMH bulb and not a Philips MasterColor right? Not all CMH are equal especially when it comes to growing, the Philips MasterColor are the best CMH bulbs on the market period. IMHO if your not using a Philips MasterColor for your grow your not truly using CMH, its kinda like drinking Shasta cola, although it is soda, its no COKE!
 

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
I just got my hands on an OSRAM ceramic metal halide 70 watt 10 degree spot in a PAR38 form. I think this will grow one nice fat juicy tree of greatness. Hard to comeby in standard commercial lamp stores. This is way better than any standard HPS or MH reflector I've ever seen, because a 10 degree spot simply has the majority of the light right where the plant needs it. I was thinking about LEDS but nothing comes close to the mastercolor by philips, or powerball from OSRAM. the 70 watt does run on a digital ballast just fine. I already got a mastercolor integrated metal halide PAR that has ballast inside, and 25 watts, awesome for a short tree of dank and great lamp because no ballast wires to worry about. I sell this stuff and I'm an electrical engineer
 

WaxxyNuggets

Active Member
So Ive been hearing/reading lots of good things about the Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs, especially the Philips Mastercolor Retro White ones. Supposedly they produce the best spectrum for plant growth on the market today, however the highest wattage they come in so far is 400w so for large/commercial grows you would need to use several of them or supplement other lighting, from what I hear the 400W CMH used with a 600W HPS produces INCREDIBLE results. Well here's a review of the Philips Mastercolor CMH Retro White Lamps by a grower who swears they are hands down the best grow lights on the marked today: (---->CLICK HERE<----)

Here's some product info I copied from GrowLight Express (Check out that spectrum compared to HPS on the chart below!):


Philips MasterColor Ceramic Metal Halide
HPS-Retro White Lamps


So maybe you have heard about the best grow light bulb on the market…or maybe not - but now you have! The Philips MasterColor Ceramic Metal Halide HPS-Retro White Lamps are something new to horticulture. These bulbs are being manufactured to replace high pressure sodium (HPS) bulbs in factories and warehouses. Along comes the indoor gardener who sees the light and gets them thinking - I bet these would grow great plants! Well they do.

Grow Light Express has been testing these lamps for years and has sold lots of them. We honestly believe in these lamps. We get asked all the time if this is such a great bulb why isn't Phillips directly selling / advertising them to the horticultural markets. Well the technical reason is that with this type of bulb they would have to retool their manufacturing plants at great costs. With the coming advanced in lighting technology (and there is really some amazing stuff heading our way) we believe that they are unwilling to spend the money until the market proves worth investing further in Ceramic Metal Halide technology.
The basics:
These bulbs can be used in BOTH vegetative and bloom cycles - no more changing lamps during your grow. NO DIGITAL BALLASTS - you will destroy the bulb. ONLY use a standard coil and core HPS ballast (dont let the name confuse you). CMH bulbs cannot handle the frequencies of digital ballasts. Of course there are exceptions to this rule as there is at least one digital ballast that is designed to work with CMH lamps. They are fairly expensive and unless you know you have one of these you don't so don't try. The Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs are positional. This means that they are designed to be EITHER horizontal or vertical (they cannot be used universally) but not both. Placing the bulb in the wrong position will cause it to fail early. A tip to success is that most gardeners are reporting better success with the use of supplemental silica. Since these bulbs will make your plants grow fast, silica is helpful. Silica is involved in cell division and overall plant strength.
Benefits:
There are many benefits to these lamps. The main reason for even considering these lamps is the fantastic spectrum of light they produce. Check out the chart below to compare to output of a CMH to a HPS lamp.

As you can see there is a great deal of light energy available in the blue spectrum as well as the red. HPS lamps produce lots of light but its not the "right" light. It is true that plants can adapt and grow well under HPS but they will do better under CMH. Think of it this way, the sun, the light we are trying to reproduce inside, is full spectrum not just a lot of yellow / red. So why just give them yellow / orange? Basically HPS has become the standard for growing in supplied lighting conditions. This is mostly historical (now) because that was the best we had…now we have alternatives.
Other benefits include they "throw" less heat, they have very little color shift (less than 200K over their life time), your plants will have less stretch (tighter internodes).
Ceramic Metal Halide FAQ:
1. I have noticed that the Ceramic Metal Halide HPS Retro bulbs produce less lumens compared to other HPS bulbs?
A: Lumens is an antiquated way of comparing grow lamps. Lumens are a scientific definition based on the human eye and NOT on a plants response curve. This is the hardest part for people considering trying the CMH's to get past. We have been snowed over by the manufacturers just focusing on the max lumens.

2. When are bigger wattage bulbs going to be available?
A: Hum…sometime soon if Phillips keeps their promise! Also there is some new Ceramic Metal Halide technology on the horizon. This may keep bigger wattages of the market but the good news is that the new ones maybe extremely more efficient so you may not need bigger wattages. We will keep you posted on this!!

3. Will they run on my DIGITAL ballast?
A: NO (unless you have a specifically designed digital ballast for CMH lamps). They must be used in HPS ballast.
For additional information refer to the specification sheet for Ceramic Metal Halide Bulbs from Phillips.


I have a question for people using CMHS... Although cmhs hit many of the wavelengths in the spectrum, the output of the light is put over an extremely broad spectrum, meaning there's wasted power on spectrums plants dont use... I'm assuming yields suffer tremendously with these types of bulbs... Kind of like flowering with an mh, but with a tiny bit of red and a bunch of other random wavelengths not usable by plants?

IMO seems like a marketing gimmick.:bigjoint:
 

jaubry777

Member
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!!! That's all I needed to hear, I'm buying one immediately, however can someone please point me to the best/cheapest place to get one? Would a local hardware store carry them or is an online retailer going to be the cheapest? This is about the cheapest Ive found so far: (50$ + 6$ shipping) (---->CLICK HERE<----) Thanks again for the help, I truly appreciate it.
http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/
this guy sells em for $35. extended 18 month warranty. only company to pre burn all bulbs. oh and, philips has discontinued this bulb. I have used it 3 times now with great results. in a 20"x20" closet i was able to yield 5oz. im a newbie. good luck to all
 

jaubry777

Member
the greatest thing about these bulbs is they are much cooler than HPS and they produce a clean white light that isnt at all bothersome to your eyes, also easier to take photos. I had my buds within 2 inches of my reflector, which is just cooled with a standing fan. no burning just some major foxtailing at the top. the main cola looked like a manora. great smokes LOADED with crystals.
 

70's natureboy

Well-Known Member
the greatest thing about these bulbs is they are much cooler than HPS and they produce a clean white light that isnt at all bothersome to your eyes, also easier to take photos. I had my buds within 2 inches of my reflector, which is just cooled with a standing fan. no burning just some major foxtailing at the top. the main cola looked like a manora. great smokes LOADED with crystals.
Dude, I had the opposite experience. I thought it was bright and hot as hell. The first day I had it I had to round up a hat and glasses to go near it. I always said it was as bright as my 1000mh. Alas, all good things come to an end and the thing shit the bed at 2 months old. I haven't found my reciept yet but I'm hoping for a replacement sometime.
 

jaubry777

Member
Dude, I had the opposite experience. I thought it was bright and hot as hell. The first day I had it I had to round up a hat and glasses to go near it. I always said it was as bright as my 1000mh. Alas, all good things come to an end and the thing shit the bed at 2 months old. I haven't found my reciept yet but I'm hoping for a replacement sometime.
well thats a pretty horrible experience. maybe you werent using the right ballast. I have a magnetic COPPER CORE ballast made by philips specifically for it, 5 year warranty. cost me $67 plus $12 shipping. where did you order your bulb from? Also i have no experience using any other bulbs other than a 400w HPS that I test with.
 
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