Can we defeat Prop 19? will it pass? Is it as bogus as it seems?

T

The Mastermind

Member
beardo said:
removed
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From my experience, idiots that have been beaten in the sense of a logical argument usually resort to this kind of childish and bigotry behavior. I consider this a W for myself, and I consider you a embarrassment and a roadblock to marijuana smokers and the process of marijuana legalization, respectively. You're fucking pathetic, and I conclude the only reason marijuana isn't legal is because of shitheads such as yourself. Amongst groups, the loudest and most ignorant will be casted as the posterchilds for any movement.
 
LightningMcGreen

LightningMcGreen

Active Member
Ok, so I commented on the homepage about the whole prop 19 thing, and apparently everyone there seems to be misguided lol. They told me it was one oz period, home, on your person, wherever.
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
The Mastermind said:
From my experience, idiots that have been beaten in the sense of a logical argument usually resort to this kind of childish and bigotry behavior. I consider this a W for myself, and I consider you a embarrassment and a roadblock to marijuana smokers and the process of marijuana legalization, respectively. You're fucking pathetic, and I conclude the only reason marijuana isn't legal is because of shitheads such as yourself. Amongst groups, the loudest and most ignorant will be casted as the posterchilds for any movement.
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Maybe you should reread your posts ....see who resorted to childish bigotry and discover who the loudest most ignorant poster child is....Maybe you could learn something about debate from John Doopey he made his points quite eloquently even if i question the merits of prop 19 I am open to intelligent debate...Thats why I started this thread but since you resorted to name calling I decided to end the debate with you. I refuse to enter a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I wondered why you felt the need to resort to name calling and thought I would ask If it might have something to do with insecurities you feel about your homosexuality. If you can cease name calling and have any lagitimate points I would be happy to continue to include you in this debate.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
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are you really that upset? are you unable to just say 'i was wrong', or form a rebuttal? and why do you capitalize random words such as 'Preform' and 'Oral'?

these are all very good questions.

my observation is that you have bigoted views towards homosexuals, and you try to condemn someone as being gay because in your mind, that is somehow the most viable strategy for continuing the debate. now, i have no idea if whoever you were debating is gay or not, but i do know that those least assured of their persuasions are the first to condemn others for theirs.

what i am saying, if all those fancy words prove to be too much for your stubborn intellect, is that you may may be in the closet. do yourself a favor and leave this website, go browse some gay porn, and explore these feelings.

woops, i forgot. you need to be 18 to legally view pornography on the internet. perhaps you could steal some of your parent's porn and just stare at the appropriate same sex genitalia instead.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
you can drink around your kids and smoke cigarettes in your house to but the law not only says you cant give marijuana to minors but states that you can not use it in a place where their are minors present
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so what? just go into the other room. are you presently in the habit of buying beer and cigarettes for minors?

beardo said:
It also limits the size of your grow space who is going to be inspecting grows?
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it actually INCREASES the size of your grow space from 0 sq ft to 25 sq ft. no one will inspect the grows.

beardo said:
It also makes it illegal to buy and sell marijuana so you have to buy it from a dispensery ...Doesn't sound like legalization to me
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it sounds like legalization to me when anyone over 21 can go to a store and buy some bud OR grow it at their home. that sounds exactly like legalization.
 
T

The Mastermind

Member
beardo said:
Maybe you should reread your posts ....see who resorted to childish bigotry and discover who the loudest most ignorant poster child is....Maybe you could learn something about debate from John Doopey he made his points quite eloquently even if i question the merits of prop 19 I am open to intelligent debate...Thats why I started this thread but since you resorted to name calling I decided to end the debate with you. I refuse to enter a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I wondered why you felt the need to resort to name calling and thought I would ask If it might have something to do with insecurities you feel about your homosexuality. If you can cease name calling and have any lagitimate points I would be happy to continue to include you in this debate.
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An example of name calling is: you're a nerd or you're a geek or a derogatory nickname as WeirdoBeardo. What I probably called you, from memory, was a "fucking dumbass" amongst others that characterize your intelligence.

You started this entire thread by asking questions and others attempted to answer them. The fact you couldn't answer your own, despite being convinced by some individual that Prop 19 isn't in the interest of growers, means you didn't do the intelligent thing, and that is research your facts.

Once I provided my rationale for what I believe will happen and why this is better than not having any kind of marijuana legalization, you proceeded to question the authenticity of the bill and whether or not it will be profitable in way or form. You stated how those selling the weed would have no incentive to lower prices, when it is lower prices that attracts more questions. You didn't take into consideration the ease of production of marijuana on such a large scale. You didn't consider how the revenue would be collected. And when I pointed to how billions upon billions of dollars are being poured outside of our country to cartels that go on killing sprees in attempts to intimidate Mexican citizens, you asked for proof and pointed to guns. When I told them the source of revenue for buying those guns were illegal drugs, you went ahead and made presumptive and incorrect attacks regarding my sexual orientation. While 1 line of my post was a name calling, the rest of it was filled with actual facts representing why I support certain ideas and this current effort that is prop 19.

I can't find anything on this John Doopey of yours. After looking at some arguments against marijuana, I found this: http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/pdf/english/19-arg-rebuttals.pdf Honestly you can replace "marijuana" with "alcohol" and you'll have rebuttals to have alcohol outlawed. A lot of what is being argued and rebutted relies on such precise objectivity. In addition, there is the notion that people will begin to drive while in the influence of marijuana. I guarantee you with the current amount of individuals that smoke it does actually occur on a daily basis and far greater numbers. The fact there are some subjective leanings in this law are fine for me, because it can pave way for further legislation to help.

It is a step by step process. Take the step so we can reach the ultimate goal that is legalization.
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
are you really that upset? are you unable to just say 'i was wrong', or form a rebuttal? and why do you capitalize random words such as 'Preform' and 'Oral'?

these are all very good questions.

my observation is that you have bigoted views towards homosexuals, and you try to condemn someone as being gay because in your mind, that is somehow the most viable strategy for continuing the debate. now, i have no idea if whoever you were debating is gay or not, but i do know that those least assured of their persuasions are the first to condemn others for theirs.

what i am saying, if all those fancy words prove to be too much for your stubborn intellect, is that you may may be in the closet. do yourself a favor and leave this website, go browse some gay porn, and explore these feelings.

woops, i forgot. you need to be 18 to legally view pornography on the internet. perhaps you could steal some of your parent's porn and just stare at the appropriate same sex genitalia instead.
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I was asking what I take to be lagitimate questions about prop19 and mastermind tells me im feeble minded and that im the reason marijuana is illegal and calls me stupid and i just asked if this might be some kind of pent up rage over his unease over his sexuality. I like gay guys eventhough im not gay this wasn't an attack on gays just wondered if he wanted to discuss his sexuality because he seemed so upset and was personaly attacking me and calling me a moron and im partialy illiterate so this bothers me...im dyslexic
 
cerberus

cerberus

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to burst this great intelectual debate but the feds already said they would sue this if it came to fruition. and as mentioned before, there are a lot of well funded parties on both sides of the line lobbying to keep it the way it is.
is it constitutional for cali to do this? what about inter-state commerce laws, dissallowing one state to build an unfair advantage over another. and creating a new industry out of a federally illegal item is an advantage.. thats just one way to fight it..

good luck folks
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
I dont like the idea of people being fined for a plant.... That is why I am voting no and hope it will not pass.
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this bill has the opposite effect. currently, you are allowed nothing for recreational use. once this passes, you are allowed 25 sq ft to grow plants. so your logic is backwards here.

beardo said:
I dont like the idea of the govt telling you what you can do in your home in the presence of your family.... That is why I am voting no and hope it will not pass.
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prop 19 increases the number of things you can legally do in your own home. right now, it is illegal to grow or smoke for recreational purposes in your home. so you logic is backwards here as well.

besides, some things it makes sense to tell people they can't do in their own home....like beat their wife and kids or murder someone.

beardo said:
I dont like the idea of only being able to purchase marijuana from a few major suppliers....That is why I am voting no and hope it will not pass.
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who is to say there will only be 'a few major suppliers'? that is speculation, prediction....call it what you will. besides, how many suppliers can you purchase from currently for recreational purposes? ZERO. so your logic is backwards here too.

beardo said:
If prop 19 was for legalization it would say " marijuana is not illegal" that would be the whole bill....That is why I am voting no and hope it will not pass. READ THE WHOLE PROP VOTE
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ummm, yeah. legislation does not quite work that way.
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
The Mastermind said:
An example of name calling is: you're a nerd or you're a geek or a derogatory nickname as WeirdoBeardo. What I probably called you, from memory, was a "fucking dumbass" amongst others that characterize your intelligence.

You started this entire thread by asking questions and others attempted to answer them. The fact you couldn't answer your own, despite being convinced by some individual that Prop 19 isn't in the interest of growers, means you didn't do the intelligent thing, and that is research your facts.

Once I provided my rationale for what I believe will happen and why this is better than not having any kind of marijuana legalization, you proceeded to question the authenticity of the bill and whether or not it will be profitable in way or form. You stated how those selling the weed would have no incentive to lower prices, when it is lower prices that attracts more questions. You didn't take into consideration the ease of production of marijuana on such a large scale. You didn't consider how the revenue would be collected. And when I pointed to how billions upon billions of dollars are being poured outside of our country to cartels that go on killing sprees in attempts to intimidate Mexican citizens, you asked for proof and pointed to guns. When I told them the source of revenue for buying those guns were illegal drugs, you went ahead and made presumptive and incorrect attacks regarding my sexual orientation. While 1 line of my post was a name calling, the rest of it was filled with actual facts representing why I support certain ideas and this current effort that is prop 19.

I can't find anything on this John Doopey of yours. After looking at some arguments against marijuana, I found this: http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/pdf/english/19-arg-rebuttals.pdf Honestly you can replace "marijuana" with "alcohol" and you'll have rebuttals to have alcohol outlawed. A lot of what is being argued and rebutted relies on such precise objectivity. In addition, there is the notion that people will begin to drive while in the influence of marijuana. I guarantee you with the current amount of individuals that smoke it does actually occur on a daily basis and far greater numbers. The fact there are some subjective leanings in this law are fine for me, because it can pave way for further legislation to help.

It is a step by step process. Take the step so we can reach the ultimate goal that is legalization.
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I have read the prop and have questions about it...like the not being able to sell or recieve compensation for marijuana and what permits and licences will be needed if you wanted to open a distribution or grow operation. Im curious about how smoking where minors are present will be interperted will you be able to go in another room or in your yard or will that make you a criminal? If your limited to how much you can grow and you cant sell who can you buy from? who will supply the marijuana? Who will be growing the pppot who will be enforcing these new laws? We have prop 215 and the 25 square foot space is a set back and caregivers can receive reasonable compensation under 21 but will they lose that under prop 19?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
i just asked if this might be some kind of pent up rage over his unease over his sexuality.
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i find it funny that the first thing you thought of when trying to work out a reason for his 'pent up rage' was 'unease over his sexuality'.

personally, if someone is raging against me, i usually think they are having a bad day, or out of weed, or smoking shitty weed, or just a dick in general. you know, the kind of stuff normal people let upset them.

clearly for you, unease over your sexual orientation was the first thing you thought of....kind of telling! you then went on to defend yourself as not gay and that you could not possibly harbor any resentment towards homosexuals because you like gay guys. well, that totally exculpates you after the anti-homo diatribe.

what is it they say about the thief worried about everyone else being a thief?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
We have prop 215 and the 25 square foot space is a set back
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no, it is not. prop 19 does not limit what you can do under prop 215. prop 19 is the reverse of a set back, as it allows everyone over 21 to grow and buy.

that must be the 25th time i have corrected that silly notion on these forums....do you mind me asking where you got such a ridiculous notion?
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
no, it is not. prop 19 does not limit what you can do under prop 215. prop 19 is the reverse of a set back, as it allows everyone over 21 to grow and buy.

that must be the 25th time i have corrected that silly notion on these forums....do you mind me asking where you got such a ridiculous notion?
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From prop 19- does not make any exception to 25 square foot rule for medical patients
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
FuZZyBUDz said:
i got the VOTE YES ON 19 in my widow, and on the hush hush, lets say im the guy yo go to
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I know were on the Hush Hush but could you elaborate a little? Are you the bud man or a dispensery or what? you support it? what do you see it doing for California?
 
The Ruiner

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Most pro-19 people are people that think they will be free to operate under the new legislation. They are seeing $$$ everywhere. They think that there wont be a bigger fish to come along and eat them up. They think that they will be able to afford all the taxes and fees and BS that will accompany 19...when infact they have no clue what they will be, or if they really can even afford to operate, or more importantly even be ALLOWED to operate. Then, when/if they cant and they have already lost everything by happily voting away their rights under the CUA/MMP they will be screaming for leniency. It's fucked up that 215 was good enough for you to make your money, but what about the rest of us? What about the patients? There has been so much out there about how selfish the anti-19 people are, and its fucking absurdly ridiculous. All I have to say to the pro-19 people that are so anxious to strip my rights away is "FUCK YOU." I can't understand how people, without millions of dollars, could endorse this piece of crap. Pro-19 people have absolutely NO GUARANTEES, only "hope" and if you cant see what "hope" brought us in '08 then maybe we deserve 19.

Maybe everyone here deserves to be fucked over until we finally learn not to trust people that havent earned it.
 
The Ruiner

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
no, it is not. prop 19 does not limit what you can do under prop 215. prop 19 is the reverse of a set back, as it allows everyone over 21 to grow and buy.

that must be the 25th time i have corrected that silly notion on these forums....do you mind me asking where you got such a ridiculous notion?
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This is totally bullshit....anyone who believes this DESERVES 19. UB, why are you lying? You know that there are no MMJ exemptions in regards to cultivation, under 19. No one can point to any part of the bill and say "look, there's the 215 exemption for cultivation" BECAUSE THERE ISNT ANY.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
From prop 19- does not make any exception to 25 square foot rule for medical patients
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The Ruiner said:
This is totally bullshit....anyone who believes this DESERVES 19. UB, why are you lying? You know that there are no MMJ exemptions in regards to cultivation, under 19. No one can point to any part of the bill and say "look, there's the 215 exemption for cultivation" BECAUSE THERE ISNT ANY.
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prop 19 makes explicit reference to medical.

7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.


8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.


http://yeson19.com/node/6


go ahead and google 11362.5, 11362.7, and 11362.9

ruiner, your argument is ruined. kinda ironic, eh?
 
T

The Mastermind

Member
The Ruiner said:
Most pro-19 people are people that think they will be free to operate under the new legislation. They are seeing $$$ everywhere. They think that there wont be a bigger fish to come along and eat them up. They think that they will be able to afford all the taxes and fees and BS that will accompany 19...when infact they have no clue what they will be, or if they really can even afford to operate, or more importantly even be ALLOWED to operate. Then, when/if they cant and they have already lost everything by happily voting away their rights under the CUA/MMP they will be screaming for leniency. It's fucked up that 215 was good enough for you to make your money, but what about the rest of us? What about the patients? There has been so much out there about how selfish the anti-19 people are, and its fucking absurdly ridiculous. All I have to say to the pro-19 people that are so anxious to strip my rights away is "FUCK YOU." I can't understand how people, without millions of dollars, could endorse this piece of crap. Pro-19 people have absolutely NO GUARANTEES, only "hope" and if you cant see what "hope" brought us in '08 then maybe we deserve 19.

Maybe everyone here deserves to be fucked over until we finally learn not to trust people that havent earned it.
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You're a loony. The actual, objective words of the law go out to say the following here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_19_(2010)#Effects_of_the_bill

Patients make up such a small number of smokers. Many documentaries I have watched regarding marijuana advocation has in somewhere referred to medical marijuana being a loophole for individuals wanting to be able to smoke marijuana. I've gone through forums and read stories and watched videos on individuals going up to their doctors, jokingly jabbing them in the ribs, and saying, "I'm sick." This is pathetic in terms of how our healthcare system is being abused and used as a loophole.

The guarantees of the law are within its text. If you understood the exact objectivity of law, you would understand how far words, sentences, and phrasing go.

Individuals such as yourself are in some way or another paranoid. Anything passed onto you is someway stupid and going to suppress your liberties and lead to a huge governmental overhaul where you'll end up with chips in your brains and have to take some kind of shot everyday so you stay a simple minded servant to the radical government. Grow up. You've all been going at it since the 60s, and none of this has happened.
 
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