Can you live on minimum wage? (Calculator)

I am saying London has no position on that, that I know of. We have have federated States. There cannot be centralized govt in the USA.

So, what do you think? No one has tenure, here. The best you can do is not get run off. And rumors of my demise, come and go.

Post count only means you participate. But, you are mis-labeling for and against and you may not yet realize, I take no sides at all....completely different.

Canna Sylvan said:

In Londonfog's perfect world no one makes fun of his micropenis that he feels the need to do partial quote lies as a means of lashing out. So I feel him. Actually I lied, his micropenis is too small to feel.

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Dude why are you so concerned with my penis ? I respect your way of life, but I'm happily married and enjoy vagina.

Doer said:

I am saying London has no position on that, that I know of. We have have federated States. There cannot be centralized govt in the USA.

So, what do you think? No one has tenure, here. The best you can do is not get run off. And rumors of my demise, come and go.

Post count only means you participate. But, you are mis-labeling for and against and you may not yet realize, I take no sides at all....completely different.

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When I see that Rob Roy and Lodonfog are online, I will ask both of them to give a brief summary of their stance.
the reason I intervened was, it is commonplace for many on the left side of the aisle to misrepresent Libertarians views.
Every libertarian I know is for a smaller more efficient federal government and are pro states rights, not a one of them are advocating complete self rule, except when it come to private property. Giving the ultimate power to the individual states is nothing new, I believe our framers were smart enough to realize the potential threat of giving the central government too much authority.

londonfog said:

asking someone to live on 7.25 is crazy. I say 10.50 would be a fair start.

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Why not $1,000 an hour? According to some people

if wages go up X, the cost of things goes up by Y where Y<X.

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so that means you would actually be SAVING money in the long run, as the prices you have to pay for everything would go down in relation to the amount you pay your employees. You are an employer and $1,000 an hour would actually be BENEFICIAL to you, according to some folks anyway.

So hows about it? $1,000 an hour sounds pretty fair to you doesn't it? It would certainly help people more than a measly $10.50 would. Do the right thing Fog, you know you should.

Any problems whatsoever with that plan?

NoDrama said:

Why not $1,000 an hour? According to some people so that means you would actually be SAVING money in the long run, as the prices you have to pay for everything would go down in relation to the amount you pay your employees. You are an employer and $1,000 an hour would actually be BENEFICIAL to you, according to some folks anyway.

So hows about it? $1,000 an hour sounds pretty fair to you doesn't it? It would certainly help people more than a measly $10.50 would. Do the right thing Fog, you know you should.

Any problems whatsoever with that plan?

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can you supply quotes that support someone saying that

londonfog said:

asking someone to live on 7.25 is crazy. I say 10.50 would be a fair start.

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hey londofog, just wanted to clear a few things up.

Would you like to see the US adopt a European like central government or are you more comfortable with individual states having the ultimate power?

I will ask the same question of Rob Roy.

schuylaar said:

if the raise of $2/hour breaks a business owner..perhaps they shouldn't be in business..

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According to the almighty BLS ( which never lies) the average company has 16.1 full time employees in the USA. 2(16*40)= $1280 additional expense per week, OR $66,560 a year additional expense. According to the IRS

In 2008, the average nonfarm sole proprietorship had revenues of only $58,256 and net income of only $11,696.

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Here is a chart to explain that among all industries, the average firm makes $100,436 per year. You don't think that deducting $66,560 from that $100,436 figure is going to cause any problems??? O RLY???



Wise up Hun.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Stats-2

jahbrudda said:

hey londofog, just wanted to clear a few things up.

Would you like to see the US adopt a European like central government or are you more comfortable with individual states have the ultimate power?

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I like what we have now. ..just need the right honest people to run it. I'm more for our Federal Government then individual states rights...but you can blame that on the South and the evil thiking of some men. You might want to start another thread to discuss

UncleBuck said:

we've done the math, it's here for you to see form just 20 minutes ago.

if wages go up X, the cost of things goes up by Y where Y<X. why is this so hard to accept? there is enough empirical data to prove it, we can even go beyond the BLS if you want to.

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londonfog said:

can you supply quotes that support someone saying that

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There ya go. Seems there is so much empirical data to PROVE this point that you may as well just pony up the $1,000 per hour to each employee. Not going to be a problem right?

NoDrama said:

There ya go. Seems there is so much empirical data to PROVE this point that you may as well just pony up the $1,000 per hour to each employee. Not going to be a problem right?

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DUDE ...lol.. Now that's a fucking reach. Now I remember why I stay away from here at times..lol

londonfog said:

DUDE ...lol.. Now that's a fucking reach. Now I remember why I stay away from here at times..lol

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What I especially love is that buck's data actually suggests that the min wage should actually be REDUCED, yet he argues for increasing it. Makes no sense to me.

londonfog said:

I like what we have now. ..just need the right honest people to run it. I'm more for our Federal Government then individual states rights...but you can blame that on the South and the evil thiking of some men. You might want to start another thread to discuss

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Of course we all know the way it is, is consistently trending to a centralized government.
Nothing wrong with your stance, that's what this country is all about, but I did peg you pretty accurately. I figured you were more pro federal government and less for individual states rights. hence your pro federal government minimum wage standards.

Thank you.

jahbrudda said:

When I see that Rob Roy and Lodonfog are online, I will ask both of them to give a brief summary of their stance.
the reason I intervened was, it is commonplace for many on the left side of the aisle to misrepresent Libertarians views.
Every libertarian I know is for a smaller more efficient federal government and are pro states rights, not a one of them are advocating complete self rule, except when it come to private property. Giving the ultimate power to the individual states is nothing new, I believe our framers were smart enough to realize the potential threat of giving the central government too much authority.

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Hey, I have discussed this at lengh over years, with them both.


You seem to think I am proposing some counter arguments. I will tell you plainly, you may be Libertarian, and think you know what that is, but, the entire libertarian stance ignores the obvious. We are are here, because we forced it with blood and maintain it with Law, and it is currently the best we can get, for now, by very difinition of self rule.

You are insisting on Labels as if they have meaning.

So, you think I am left? I am so far left it would look like Mars to you. You don't know my Left. It no longer exists in the USA. I see the US Constitution as a Perfect Che-ist struggle, these days. So, I am quite at peace with it, though I fight the DEM and PUB silliness whenever I can.

Ripe fields here on RIU for that.

Doer said:

Hey, I have discussed this at lengh over years, with them both.


You seem to think I am proposing some counter arguments. I will tell you plainly, you may be Libertarian, and think you know what that is, but, the entire libertarian stance ignores the obvious. We are are here, because we forced it with blood and maintain it with Law, and it is currently the best we can get, for now, by very difinition of self rule.

You are insisting on Labels as if they have meaning.

So, you think I am left? I am so far left it would look like Mars to you. You don't know my Left. It no longer exists in the USA. I see the US Constitution as a Perfect Che-ist struggle, these days. So, I am quite at peace with it, though I fight the DEM and PUB silliness whenever I can.

Ripe fields here on RIU for that.

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Just about everyone in one way or another subscribes to a label, many unwittingly of course, have you not called yourself a centrist?

jahbrudda said:

Just about everyone in one way or another subscribes to a label, many unwittingly of course, have you not called yourself a centrist?

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I have not. You can call me a Che-ist, or a Buddhist. Both will fit and both are quite meaningless.

I believe in certain values in my life that you may not grok and may even scoff at. So, the broad middle of Don't Care, is hardly being a centrist. If I don't take sides, that means I am quite un-willing to compromise. Not a Centrist. Not anything, but Self.

UncleBuck said:

let's look. we'll go down the list.

eggs, 12/2005: 1.350
eggs, 12/2009: 1.772

31% increase, wages went up 41%. woooooooooops.

milk, 12/2005: 3.241
milk, 12/2009: 3.105

a decrease, while wages went up 41%. WOOOOOOOOPS.

bread, 12/2005: 1.046
bread, 12/2009: 1.390

a 33% increase, while wages went up 41%. woo00o00ooo0oo0oooo0oo0oo0o0oo0ooo000oops!

WOOOOOOOOPS

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unsourced bullshit claims.

a dozen eggs for $1.72?
it's true, because you can find eggs for that price everywhere.
BULLSHIT

milk for $3.10?
milk production is heavily subsidized, and price capped, yet even so, price at the place i shop? $3.99

bread for $1.39?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!

want some REAL fucking numbers?

numbers you can actually check yourself?


Bixby Creek Bridge Califrornia

cost in 1931 to build it: $199,000 No Shit. bid out at $213k, it came in $14,000 UNDER budget.
cost in 1998 to do a "seismic retrofit": $20,000,000

yep. adding steel reinforcing bolts and re-anchoring the road surface at the ends of the bridge was 100x more expensive than building the bridge itself.

yeah, no inflation there.

you are retarded.

12oz coke from a vending machine in 1989: 25 cents.
12oz coke from a vending machine now: $1.50

wrigley's Plen-T-Pak spearmint gum 1989: $0.20
now: $.99

3 pack of d'addario bronze wound guitar strings in 1989: $4 (at a music store)
Now: $13.50 (interwebs guaranteed lowest price) or $20 at a music store.

Gibson SG in 1989: $350.00
now: $1300.00


yeah, no such thing as inflation.

you are a joke.

NoDrama said:

What I especially love is that buck's data actually suggests that the min wage should actually be REDUCED, yet he argues for increasing it. Makes no sense to me.

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Guy he never uses 1000..you did. Pretty far of a reach, but you did manage to toss commonsense out the window

londonfog said:

Guy he never uses 1000..you did. Pretty far of a reach, but you did manage to toss commonsense out the window

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no bucky never asserted his support for $1000/hour minimum wage.

he asserted that if you raise the minimum wage by X, prices will go up by Y which is always lower than X.

and while this is "true" in some cases (the only cases bucky will examine) the fact is, if ANY expense go up by X/year the total price for the goods produced by the company will go up by Z (which is always MORE than the increase in the expense)

raising the minimum wage by $2, $3, $4, or even $7/hour will not drive the price of the "big mac" up by that number, since the burger flipper does NOT prepare a single burger every hour.

the company can employ many measures to offset the cost increase other than price increases, which McBurgers has done.

expense cutting measures to keep the "big mac" (barely )under $5 has included:

reducing the size by more than 35% since 1990
cutting the quality of the "meat" used
cutting the quality of the "secret sauce"
increasing wait times by reducing the number of burgers prepared in advance to reduce wastage.
raising the price of other items on the menu
cutting corners on the other items in the menu
reducing staffing levels (unemployment)
offering "premium" choices at much higher prices
offering new super expensive coffee drinks with an insanely high margin

no company can stay in business if their expenses are higher than their receipts.

bucky's claim that raising the minimum wage will not increase prices, but will LOWER prices through the magic of "aggregate demand" is ridiculous, the proposal of a $1000/hr minimum wage is a reductio ad absrdum inspired effort to demonstrate how retarded bucky (and the economists he listens to) really are.

londonfog said:

Guy he never uses 1000..you did.

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He uses X and Y, which are algebraic terms that could mean any number between zero and infinity, welcome to math Fog.

Pretty far of a reach, but you did manage to toss commonsense out the window

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So are you saying that if the amount the min wage increases is less than some arbitrary number you have in mind, that it won't amount to a hill of beans of an impact to the employer?

$1,000 an hour would cause you great pain yes? But an extra $2 won't affect any part of your business?

You don't actually own a business do you?

NoDrama said:

He uses X and Y, which are algebraic terms that could mean any number between zero and infinity, welcome to math Fog.




So are you saying that if the amount the min wage increases is less than some arbitrary number you have in mind, that it won't amount to a hill of beans of an impact to the employer?

$1,000 an hour would cause you great pain yes? But an extra $2 won't affect any part of your business?

You don't actually own a business do you?

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I actually enjoy math as well as commonsense...1000 from 2 dollars is a big leap. I can adjust on 2 an hour...not with 1000. Why can't people here have a conversation without blowing things out of proportion