CBD NON-Fem SEEDS

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althor

Well-Known Member
augoiedes said:
Actually that knowledge came from the master grower i apprenticed under for 5 years in Colorado who has been working in the industry for 20 years with degrees in horticulture. That knowledge of fem seeds not being as stable to clone off of as non fem seeds also came while visiting a breeding facility in Colorado. So...thanks for your input, but I will trust the masters ;)
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Then they are full of shit.

You can take clones off of fems just as easy (or hard) as coming from regulars. It is ridiculous to come on this site and say otherwise. I have cloned way too many for you to tell me what I know is untrue. You take someone else's word, I will take first hand experience every single day of the week. I have been around growers since the early 70's so 20 years isnt all that impressive to me.
 
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althor

Well-Known Member
King Arthur said:
If I were you, I would go for one of the clones that are proven. You could go through 10 seeds and not find anything that you wanted. That would be a huge waste of time and potential medicine. Grab the proven clones from someone you can trust and go to town. Popping seeds you might not get CBD near the levels you want. I mean harlequin was only like 6% but now there are 20%ers out there. It takes time, patience, selection to achieve what you want. Also access to a lab to test it.



Alter boy....did the church hurt you that bad.
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Huh? I am pretty sure your comment makes no sense whatsoever.
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
augoiedes said:
Actually that knowledge came from the master grower i apprenticed under for 5 years in Colorado who has been working in the industry for 20 years with degrees in horticulture. That knowledge of fem seeds not being as stable to clone off of as non fem seeds also came while visiting a breeding facility in Colorado. So...thanks for your input, but I will trust the masters ;)
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I somehow doubt you received the knowledge in full. Anyone telling you you can't breed with feminized seeds is wrong, objectively, based on the science. Any problems you get breeding, come with inbreeding depression and recessive traits showing up. This happens in all forms of breeding, regardless of fem or regular.

Seems like your mind is made up though. Can't teach a rock how to swim as they say.
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
King Arthur said:
There are articles of fem vs reg. Not much difinitive proof out there but the fems were generally shorter and weighed in at a little less than what the regs were producing. By far not very much weight difference, not even enough to care. I would rather have both offered to me as some don't get to come in regular form.
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I know exactly what you reference. They compared F1's to S1's from F1's. Of course S1's from F1's will be less vigorous. That's inbreeding. F1 vs F1 will be no different.

I saw an article where AK47 was run fem vs reg. The Fems outproduced the regs. Not in any statistically meaningful way given we don't know the exact setup and conditions (which do vary in even a well controlled room) from plant to plant.
 
King Arthur

King Arthur

Well-Known Member
althor said:
Uh ok, pat yourself on the back or whatever it is you do...

And learn to clone if you cant clone plants that come from feminized seeds.
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Who said I can't clone from feminized? Do you even read bro or you just in la la land.

I think it is even funnier that he believes I can't clone feminized seeds but my garden is all from feminized clones or clone vendor :P.
 
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augoiedes

Member
althor said:
Then they are full of shit.

You can take clones off of fems just as easy (or hard) as coming from regulars. It is ridiculous to come on this site and say otherwise. I have cloned way too many for you to tell me what I know is untrue. You take someone else's word, I will take first hand experience every single day of the week. I have been around growers since the early 70's so 20 years isnt all that impressive to me.
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I didn't say anything about the ability to clone off a fem seed. You can clone any damn thing imaginable really. I was saying the genetics in fem seeds are not as strong as regular seeds.

If you are looking to make strong mothers, in my experience you will have stronger more vigorous moms and genetics from starting with regular seeds as they weren't forced to feminize. I don't believe I said you CAN'T clone off fem seeds, if I did, that is not what I mean so I apologize for the confusion. I enjoy regular seeds as you get stronger genetics of each pheno (in my experience) and can from there find what you really desire from that variety.*

*I don't say any of this in a dogmatic sense and you should all calm down about a typo or miss read......

And after re-reading my original comment about fem seeds, i noticed i never said you CANT clone off them, i just was trying to make the point that regular seed vs fem seed....over time...the clones from the regular seed will be stronger and last longer then from a fem seed to start
 
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King Arthur

King Arthur

Well-Known Member
OGEvilgenius said:
I know exactly what you reference. They compared F1's to S1's from F1's. Of course S1's from F1's will be less vigorous. That's inbreeding. F1 vs F1 will be no different.

I saw an article where AK47 was run fem vs reg. The Fems outproduced the regs. Not in any statistically meaningful way given we don't know the exact setup and conditions (which do vary in even a well controlled room) from plant to plant.
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I have looked up the subject and found some youtube videos on it when I saw that thread. Not sure what they were called took me a while to find them but people out there are testing fems vs regs.
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
King Arthur said:
I have looked up the subject and found some youtube videos on it when I saw that thread. Not sure what they were called took me a while to find them but people out there are testing fems vs regs.
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I guarantee the tests they are running are mostly meaningless. Just setting controls for such experiments is so complicated and difficult it is simply not reasonably possible without massive resources. There is no magical mechanism that changes how the genes in the plant operate if the pollen donor isn't a male that we know of, which is more or less what folks who claim femmed seeds are worse need to prove. The female genes from a male plant will also be available in any of the female offspring of this plant. The genes are the only thing that matters that we know of at this point in time.

Post up the link though to the video if you ever happen to find it, I'd check it out.
 
King Arthur

King Arthur

Well-Known Member
OGEvilgenius said:
I guarantee the tests they are running are mostly meaningless. Just setting controls for such experiments is so complicated and difficult it is simply not reasonably possible without massive resources. There is no magical mechanism that changes how the genes in the plant operate that we know of, which is more or less what folks who claim femmed seeds are worse need to prove. The female genes from a male plant will also be available in any of the female offspring of this plant. The genes are the only thing that matters that we know of at this point in time.

Post up the link though to the video if you ever happen to find it, I'd check it out.
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Definitely, I have a similar position. I don't think fems and regs have any difference other than gender. Lookin through my history but this was probably months ago.
 
Bad Karma

Bad Karma

Well-Known Member
OGEvilgenius said:
That said, some regular lines will probably be superior to some feminized lines and vice versa. But that's on plant selection and the limited numbers we work with when breeding, and has little to do with the process itself.
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Good seeds = good breeding

Good breeding = making good selections

Making good selections = a good breeder

Good genetics, are good genetics, regardless of a seed being feminized, or not.
 
A

althor

Well-Known Member
augoiedes said:
I didn't say anything about the ability to clone off a fem seed. You can clone any damn thing imaginable really. I was saying the genetics in fem seeds are not as strong as regular seeds.

If you are looking to make strong mothers, in my experience you will have stronger more vigorous moms and genetics from starting with regular seeds as they weren't forced to feminize. I don't believe I said you CAN'T clone off fem seeds, if I did, that is not what I mean so I apologize for the confusion. I enjoy regular seeds as you get stronger genetics of each pheno (in my experience) and can from there find what you really desire from that variety.*

*I don't say any of this in a dogmatic sense and you should all calm down about a typo or miss read......

And after re-reading my original comment about fem seeds, i noticed i never said you CANT clone off them, i just was trying to make the point that regular seed vs fem seed....over time...the clones from the regular seed will be stronger and last longer then from a fem seed to start
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Uh, should I quote you? You said you cant get stable clones from feminized seeds. Your words, not mine.
Which, as anyone knows, is complete bullshit. You can get perfectly stable clones from feminized seeds, it is strain dependant not sex dependant.

"More or less. I want really strong genetics and I know feminized seeds"dont tend to be the best to clone off of."
"That knowledge of fem seeds not being as stable to clone off of as non fem seeds also came while visiting a breeding facility in Colorado"
 
A

augoiedes

Member
althor said:
Uh, should I quote you? You said you cant get stable clones from feminized seeds. Your words, not mine.
Which, as anyone knows, is complete bullshit. You can get perfectly stable clones from feminized seeds, it is strain dependant not sex dependant.

"More or less. I want really strong genetics and I know feminized seeds"dont tend to be the best to clone off of."
"That knowledge of fem seeds not being as stable to clone off of as non fem seeds also came while visiting a breeding facility in Colorado"
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I never said you 100% can't, I just said you have better odds (IN MY EXPERIENCE) of stronger phenos with regular seeds. AGAIN, IN MY EXPERIENCE....different people have different experiences but I created this thread specifically for finding NON FEM CBD seeds which I was having trouble finding...So, regardless of your experience with genetics not diluting quicker with fem seeds compared to regular (which is my experience) it is irrelevant to this thread and is a discussion for a thread all its own.
 
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augoiedes

Member
So, back to the thread topic....Someone showed me these:

http://www.seedsman.com/en/seedsman-cbd-sweet-n-sour-widow-regular-seeds

http://www.seedsman.com/en/cbd-sweet-n-sour-widow-regular-5-seeds

It has been a little bit since I have researched, but I remember CBD crew being pretty prominent. Can anyone recommend one over the other? Or other regular seed CBD strains in general.

Also, it might be a long shot, but potentially which phenos/characteristics within those varieties might be prone to higher CBDS and lower THC (I understand this will most likely be done through flowering all found phenos and testing them, but figured if anyone had done something similar, one could bypass that step)
 
A

althor

Well-Known Member
augoiedes said:
I never said you 100% can't, I just said you have better odds (IN MY EXPERIENCE) of stronger phenos with regular seeds. AGAIN, IN MY EXPERIENCE....different people have different experiences but I created this thread specifically for finding NON FEM CBD seeds which I was having trouble finding...So, regardless of your experience with genetics not diluting quicker with fem seeds compared to regular (which is my experience) it is irrelevant to this thread and is a discussion for a thread all its own.
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Ok then I will ask you one more question and leave it alone...

What fem seeds have you bred with in your "experience"? For some reason I just have a hard time believing at some point you bred with feminized seeds considering you Master told you not to. I am interested in the strains that lose viability because they came from a fem seed. A female is a female, regardless of type of seed. Anyone saying anything else is saying it from bias and myths not from reality.
I have used fem seeds in many of my projects as well as regular seeds and after 6-7 generations, there is no viable differences.
I have pics, and many notes to back it up.
 
King Arthur

King Arthur

Well-Known Member
Looks like school is out guys, might be entertaining in here for a little while. :bigjoint: Poor alter boy has his panties in a bunch.
 
King Arthur

King Arthur

Well-Known Member
Sorry guys, someone took me too seriously and I guess I really got that person in the wrong way. I seriously hope you all have a wonderful day and I apologize for being a dickhead.

:( I don't like to hurt peoples feelers.
 
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