Ceramic Metal-Halide VS HPS at 400W

Hey folks,

The most common advise on these forums seems to be to use HPS lamps for flowering, and to use 'metal halide' lamps for vegging. However I have also seen 'ceramic metal halide' lamps recommended for flowering where 400W or less is to be used.

My question is: are 'ceramic' lamps a subset of 'metal halide', distinct from "normal" 'metal halide' lamps, or are they the same thing? If 'ceramic' does refer to a newer, better type of 'metal halide' lamp, is a 400W ceramic MH lamp more suitable in any way for flowering than a 400W HPS lamp?

I'm planning a small stealth grow and I'm limited to 500W or less for flowering, for heat and power consumption reasons. I was considering a 400W HPS supplemented by a few blue-spectrum CFLs, though mentions of ceramic metal halide have led me to wonder whether a 400W CMH supplemented by a few red-spectrum CFLs might be more efficient and/or easier to cool.

Can anyone clarify this for me?

Go with the phillips 330w retro CMH for 400w Hps ballast. Much better then hps, burns cooler and save u energy.

I have that bulb but for MH ballast right now (one for hps ballast is a lil better but I already had the mh ballast). My plants love it and buds are getting huge. My temps dropped by 5+ degrees farenheit.

A ceramic metal halide is a hps and mh bulb in one. So you get best of both. Can be used for veg n flower.

The cmh already has a lot of red spectrum in it so u don't need to add anything but it definetly wouldn't hurt.

Links in my signature if u wanna check out my grow.

I have color comparison pictures in my thread showing the difference of reg MH to CMH.

Google "advanced tech lighting CMH". They have very informative videos on there of ceramics. That's where I got my bulb from also. The tech guy Thomas is very knowledgeble and can help you with anything. I got his email if u want.

I read up on this a few days ago ... CMHs are lamps that contain a ceramic arc tube similar to the one in an HPS bulb, running metal halides close to the ones in a standard MH. This allows the plasma to be run somewhat hotter than a quartz-capsule MH, for a flatter, more daylike color spectrum.
What I would do is keep the HPS; it produces an excellent color spectrum for flowering, and supplement it with high-color-temp aquarium T5s. That's a simulated CMH but with a more grow-tailored color spectrum. Excellent thread recco: "LED without LEDs" by Pr0fesseur; much discussion of light spectra.
cn

MrBosco said:

Hey folks,

The most common advise on these forums seems to be to use HPS lamps for flowering, and to use 'metal halide' lamps for vegging. However I have also seen 'ceramic metal halide' lamps recommended for flowering where 400W or less is to be used.

My question is: are 'ceramic' lamps a subset of 'metal halide', distinct from "normal" 'metal halide' lamps, or are they the same thing? If 'ceramic' does refer to a newer, better type of 'metal halide' lamp, is a 400W ceramic MH lamp more suitable in any way for flowering than a 400W HPS lamp?

I'm planning a small stealth grow and I'm limited to 500W or less for flowering, for heat and power consumption reasons. I was considering a 400W HPS supplemented by a few blue-spectrum CFLs, though mentions of ceramic metal halide have led me to wonder whether a 400W CMH supplemented by a few red-spectrum CFLs might be more efficient and/or easier to cool.

Can anyone clarify this for me?

Click to expand...

send a email to member illumination he knows alot about cmh

ive used those, normal mh, normal hps, and the ho blue spectrum added hps. i would rank them in this order-1. H.o hps 2. Cmh 3. Normal hps 4. Normal mh. I prefer the ho's myself and they imo seem to do a better job for both stages of growth than the others but yeah the cmh does run a bit cooler. sadly not as much as i had expected when i bought the cmh though, from what i had read of them i was really hyped up about them and couldnt wait to get one but it let me down somewhat on temps and growth rate compared to what i got with the h.o. hps i switched out to add it. Anyway, back to the question. I would use the cmh over a normal hps but it would be best to get a h.o hps with the money imo.

Are u talking about like hortilux eye super blue or whatever as a high output hps?

I was actually bummed at first when I got the cmh cuz my temps didn't drop too much but after a few days the temp dropped by 5 degrees F. Guess the bulb had to break it or something. This is in an open hood and it a 4x2 closet with a only a 180cfm exhaust for cooling.

I have grown with hps since I've strated growing and my buds are just as dense as my hps grows. Can't really compare size because these are new strains and I use 1000w hps's and the cmh is only 330.

Darkdestruction: did u run ur cmh in a open hood or air cooled?

no. not really the super blues. although i do really want to try the dual arc bulbs bad.
what im talking of is an hps bulb with added blue/violet spectrum that puts out 5000 more lumens than the standard hps(in the 400w version, the 600w high output version puts out more than 5000 lumens more than its standard 600w hps counterpart.)
heres a few examples of what i mean.
hortilux's version-
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Hortilux-Super-HPS-Lamp-400-Watt.asp
heres aggromaxes
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-AgroMax-400-watt-High-Pressure-Sodium-Bulb.asp
heres a cheaper one
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-GrowBright-400-watt-High-Pressure-Sodium-Bulb.asp

Ok I gotcha. I've seen those at the hydro shops many times. Will definetly try one out soon.

Many thanks for the responses folks. The advice seems to be that high-output HPS lamps beat CMH for flowering, but that CMH beats standard HPS lamps watt for watt.

I've been checking out which high-output (and added bluw spectrum) HPS bulbs are available to me locally at 400W, and my options are as follows:
Osram 'Plantastar' 400W @ 70 euro (more blue spectrum)
Philips 'Son-T-Agro' 400W @ 77 euro (more blue spectrum)
Sylvania 'Grolux' 400W @ 30 euro (more lumens)
Powerplant 'Super HPS' 400W @ 23 euro

I would prefer not to order bulbs online. Can anyone recommend one of these bulbs over the others? As I intend to supplement the main light with a few CFLs anyway are the more expensive lamps above (with added blue spectrum light) worth the extra money given that I can easily add a few blue-spectrum CFLs?

all of those but the powerplant super hps have an added blue spectrum.
i found this looking up the grolux though "NOTE: Please consider choosing the Plantastar bulb instead of the Grolux as customers have been experiencing higher than normal failure rates with the 400W version of the Grolux."
ii would reconsider buying online, i found those 70 euro bulbs for like 30 euro online. (I assume thats what the 27.00 € is) thats the euro signal isnt it?

A few months ago I too was psyched about the CMH craze that i'd read so much about.
I have two 400w Philips Mastercolor CMH bulbs just chilling in my closet somewhere, only used for a few days though..

The two bulbs cost me 51.50 after shipping...the thing is however I told the people from the website that the bulb they sent me was the vertical model whereas I asked for the horizontal model...so they sent me another one no questions asked! They also gave me free shipping just beacuse i asked them to. Great company...I would recommend getting your CMHs from there.

I'd like to hear some success stories regarding CMH's as they are what i will be using next time around..
Damn bulbs are like miniature suns you cant look at them or it's like an instant headache....i wouldnt sit around under one all day either!
Just a warning


*EDIT
Forgot to even link the website woww

http://www.lightingsupply.com/

seems theyve updated their website since my last visit a few months ago...you might have to dig for the right bulb (they have tons) but they have the deals!!!

I use cmh in my veg & I don't think I will ever use anything else after using them for the last 8 months. IMO the nodes seem to be closer & much less stretching going on since the switch. I also seem to get better, faster growth. I get mine from http://advancedtechlighting.com/index.htm they have tons of good info on the bulbs there with videos. The Philip's is the only open air rated bulb on the market that I can find. From what I have read the bulbs have a high initial failure rate, so advanced pre-burns them to make sure they wont fail when you get them.

Fuck Snails said:

A few months ago I too was psyched about the CMH craze that i'd read so much about.
I'd like to hear some success stories regarding CMH's as they are what i will be using next time around..
Damn bulbs are like miniature suns you cant look at them or it's like an instant headache....i wouldnt sit around under one all day either!
Just a warning

Click to expand...

Check out SCOTTYBALLS grow thread "Pineapple Express G13 Lab's Seed to Harvest" using a 400W Philips Mastercolor Retro White CMH, he said the CMH produced the best results he's ever had and the plant looked so much more healthy than when using HPS, they had a beautiful bluish/green color (Pic of SCOTTY's plant below), 1 plant in a waterfarm produced just over 1lb with only a 400W CMH, they obviously must do something right, check it out (-->CLICK HERE<--)

PS. They have special UVA/UVB blocking sunglasses for use in grow rooms, however any sunglasses will help, just FYI.

Pineapple Express, beginning of flower W/400W CMH:

PE just before harvest, doesn't get much better than that!:

Philips CMH start to finish - it's high in UV so the trichs are a little bigger,
View attachment 2425391

The 400W Philips CMH (or any 400W lamp for that matter) works best when you keep the plants short, 400W doesn't have much penetration power so your plants will get the most out of a 400W light if their kept short, the top 1 1/2-2FT of your plants is going to get the best light so you might as well just keep your plants that short, I mean why go through the extra veg time if you can't efficiently use it? A SOG style, keeping the plants between 20-30", producing one main cola W/O side branching would be best for a 400W light. If you want to grow plants big using CMH/CDM (Ceramic Discharge Metal Halide) then I highly suggest you check out the new line of Philips CDM lamps, they have a 860W CDM lamp that runs on a 1000W MH magnetic ballast, check em out: (-->CLICK HERE<--) The Philips CDM lamps are vertical burn only (base up/down operation), however that's really not a problem since the absolute best hood on the market is vertical, its the OG Vertical Hood: (-->CLICK HERE<--)

Scrog + CMH all day baby!

400w Philips CMH Horizontal bulb over Auto Bubbelicious.
This is the main cola on one of the plants!
These light kick ass!!!