Cheap and Cheerful DIY using Citizen cobs

JorgeG, not to hijack ur thread but after looking in suddenly I needed to build a new veg light. My first led was a vero 10 5k at 300ma which works ok.
After this thread I dove into Citizens clu048-1212 @5k with a meanwell 1050b driver. way overkill but can adjust will probably run around 500ma.
So what do you think efficiency would be around 500ma, any guesses???? Heres some pics









I will be mounting this in a cabinet fixed with 36" to shelf, so just temp wired at the moment. Thanks for the citizen info. Well spent $150. OG

PS my bloom setup cxb3590's x16 1k max output

OldGrower said:

PS my bloom setup cxb3590's x16 1k max output

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@OldGrower, what are those digital boxes, they look cool! Can you give more details on the contents and parts list? May be show a pic of what is inside???

OldGrower said:

JorgeG, not to hijack ur thread but after looking in suddenly I needed to build a new veg light. My first led was a vero 10 5k at 300ma which works ok.
After this thread I dove into Citizens clu048-1212 @5k with a meanwell 1050b driver. way overkill but can adjust will probably run around 500ma.
So what do you think efficiency would be around 500ma, any guesses???? Heres some pics
I will be mounting this in a cabinet fixed with 36" to shelf, so just temp wired at the moment. Thanks for the citizen info. Well spent $150. OG

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That's awesome man, you out minimalized me. Don't worry about hijacking anything.

I think efficiency will be much higher than predicted I can tell you on paper somewhere around 53-54%, but recent tests from @robincnn and @bobby g seem to indicate better performance at low currents than the Citizen data sheets or simulator.

Squinting at Bobby's chart, it looks like at 500mA it's within 5% of a CXB3590 CB when comparing at 3000K, which is good performance for a tiny $12 cob. I'd spitball 57-58%, checking Supra's charts for CXB performance. I'd like to see the 1212 against the CXB3070 BB, actually.

Thanks JorgeG, I figured at least 50% so my 13420 heatsink should be fine.

OrganicMiner, yeah I like to know what each light bar is set at so I used some diy boxes. It houses incoming ac so has an ac plug, dc ammeter, and dimming 100k pot. Seeing how i used active cooling I had dc power for the ammeter. Sorry no inside pics just a bunch of wires and wagos and wire nuts.

From ebay
Blue LED Digital Ammeter AMP Mini Current Panel Meter DC 4.5-28V 0-9.99A F5
Black 3 Pins IEC320 Iec 320C 14 Inlet Power Plug Socket AC 250V 10A NEW
Waterproof Plastic Enclosure Electronic Project Box Instrument Case DIY Hot

From amazon
5pcs 100K OHM 3 Terminals Linear Taper Rotary B Type Potentiometer

Also used 10k ohm resistor on one leg of pot as minimum set point (off ebay 20ea cheap)

Pic of control at first firing still not up to full output 1750ma



Partial pic of backside, you can see wire loom entering box for 120v power to 12v meanwell at other end, 12v in for ammeter, dc led power in to ammeter. Below loom is 120 in for led power supply in separate hole. I used cable ties to hold loom and wire in place.



Any other questions just ask, GL all OG

OldGrower said:

Thanks JorgeG, I figured at least 50% so my 13420 heatsink should be fine.

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Great at 500ma, and 1050ma will be pretty warm (but safe), judging by my 9980 @ 35W.

Btw I love those amnmeters. I have a couple here in some box or another. Didn't use them but that's why I went with the switch. Pots lack repeatability without a monitor of some sort.

@OldGrower i love your work man. and your NFT? system

OldGrower said:

Thanks JorgeG, I figured at least 50% so my 13420 heatsink should be fine.

OrganicMiner, yeah I like to know what each light bar is set at so I used some diy boxes. It houses incoming ac so has an ac plug, dc ammeter, and dimming 100k pot. Seeing how i used active cooling I had dc power for the ammeter. Sorry no inside pics just a bunch of wires and wagos and wire nuts.

From ebay
Blue LED Digital Ammeter AMP Mini Current Panel Meter DC 4.5-28V 0-9.99A F5
Black 3 Pins IEC320 Iec 320C 14 Inlet Power Plug Socket AC 250V 10A NEW
Waterproof Plastic Enclosure Electronic Project Box Instrument Case DIY Hot

From amazon
5pcs 100K OHM 3 Terminals Linear Taper Rotary B Type Potentiometer

Also used 10k ohm resistor on one leg of pot as minimum set point (off ebay 20ea cheap)

Pic of control at first firing still not up to full output 1750ma

View attachment 3719340

Partial pic of backside, you can see wire loom entering box for 120v power to 12v meanwell at other end, 12v in for ammeter, dc led power in to ammeter. Below loom is 120 in for led power supply in separate hole. I used cable ties to hold loom and wire in place.

View attachment 3719342

Any other questions just ask, GL all OG

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@OldGrower I hope you don't mind but I am going to shamelessly steal your control box design.

so bit better efficiency at 15 extra watts and they cost less?

nice knowing you cree

how about the CLU058?

actually i get lost at the citizen site, too many options

weed-whacker said:

so bit better efficiency at 15 extra watts and they cost less?

nice knowing you cree

actually i get lost at the citizen site, too many options

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a person could build a nice youtube following translating what the different models are, optimal drive currents and showing some grows with Citizen.
I'd watch

@Growmau5, thanks for the kind works. My system is actually a modified stinkbud aero system I built years ago. Works well and after so many years have it pretty much dialed in, the leds are pushing it to the max now, bye bye hid.

@Organic Miner, sharing ideas is whats this forum is all about. Would not have ventured into led without some of the oldtimers guidance and knowledge. Glad you liked the control setup.

Gl and keep it green OG

JorgeGonzales said:

That's awesome man, you out minimalized me. Don't worry about hijacking anything.

I think efficiency will be much higher than predicted I can tell you on paper somewhere around 53-54%, but recent tests from @robincnn and @bobby g seem to indicate better performance at low currents than the Citizen data sheets or simulator.

Squinting at Bobby's chart, it looks like at 500mA it's within 5% of a CXB3590 CB when comparing at 3000K, which is good performance for a tiny $12 cob. I'd spitball 57-58%, checking Supra's charts for CXB performance. I'd like to see the 1212 against the CXB3070 BB, actually.

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5K should beat 3K considerably in efficiency. you should be comparing it with the efficiency of like a DB bin at that current minus 10%

weed-whacker said:

so bit better efficiency at 15 extra watts and they cost less?

nice knowing you cree

how about the CLU058?

actually i get lost at the citizen site, too many options

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It's actually not as overwhelming as it first appears. The naming scheme is descriptive. CLU028-1201, CLU048-1212, CLU058-1825...lots of combos but easy to decipher.

Check out this:



CLU058 is product shape, OK. They come in these shapes:



So they get bigger as you go up.

1825 means 18 led in series, running 25 parallel. You can multiply those numbers together to get total LEDs on the cob: 18 * 25 = 450.

CCT is 27, 30, 35, 40, etc...for 2700K, 3000K, 3500K, 4000K

CRIs I've looked at are M2 and H5, which are 80CRI and 90CRI, respectively. There's also 70CRI, 97CRI, and 90CRI below b.b.l.

This page lists all the cobs they offer: http://ce.citizen.co.jp/productse/info.php?no=107

But they are all just different permutations of size and number of die. Pick the CCT and CRI you like, and go from there. We've mostly looked at the 1212, 1812, 1818, and 1825 around here. 1212 is ~36V the rest are ~52V. But there's some cool stuff in the CLU028 series too...the 1201-1204 are very cheap on CDI, $2-5, enough to run a whole bunch instead of white leds for instance. The 100V 3618 might be the most efficient cob on the planet, if these tests by @robincnn and @BOBBY_G end up being accurate.

Also, check out the simulator here: http://ce.citizen.co.jp/productse/info.php?no=107

The bigger cobs have better efficiency and thermal resistance because each die is running at a lower mA, and the heat is spread over a large area.

That's really about it. Once you figure out the naming the rest is easy.

BOBBY_G said:

awesome summary. yeah it was a bit daunting at first (but so would cxbs if you were looking at the "-0000-BDB-NOH" type part numbers)



3618 is 100V

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Yeah I meant the rest in that list. Edited for clarity. Now we should delete these.

BOBBY_G said:

also wanted to mention (as i believe has been discussed in this thread), while the 058s are the flagship models there are far more holder/reflector options for the 048 series as it superceded the 046 chips of the same dimension. so even though the 048 are relatively new the 04x series has been around for a couple years or so. really since the 1818s are matching the CXBs you kind of need to think of the 058s as future high tech shit and were are blessed to even have BJBs for them right now imo.

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CLU550 was the same size wasn't it?

BOBBY_G said:

also wanted to mention (as i believe has been discussed in this thread), while the 058s are the flagship models there are far more holder/reflector options for the 048 .

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http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/tech/en/Ref_P2468_0313_R3(0514).pdf

you can just attach directly with m3 screws though, no need for holders if running these naked


cree! charge me extra and still I have to buy holders lol glad i didnt rush on the CXB band wagon

@JorgeGonzales thank you so much for that break down! numbers look great on these and its got me really excited.

but I have to see them grow & see them put the horse power to the ground.

Assuming money and budget was not a primary concern, and the DIY'er could build or configure a Citizen COB light in any way he/she chooses.

What products & drive currents would one choose to compete/slay cxb3590 in a 30" x 48" space?

Growmau5 said:

@JorgeGonzales thank you so much for that break down! numbers look great on these and its got me really excited.

but I have to see them grow & see them put the horse power to the ground.

Assuming money and budget was not a primary concern, and the DIY'er could build or configure a Citizen COB light in any way he/she chooses.

What products & drive currents would one choose to compete/slay cxb3590 in a 30" x 48" space?

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Wish I had an easy answer to that. If optics were sorted, it would be easy. 1825 @ 1050mA, 53W each. Crush it.

4 1825s for a total of 200V, 212W on an HLG-240H-C1050 or equivalent. 85% load might annoy some people, I don't mind running drivers cooler as long as they are in the efficiency sweet spot.

Alternatively, the 1818 @ 700ma like I did. 35W each, fits 4 cobs well on an HLG-120-C or 7 cobs on a 240H-C. 700ma is a good Meanwell match for the 52V versions.

Practical answer might be 1818 @ 1050mA, which @robincnn shows ahead of 3590 CD at 50W. It has holders and reflectors and you can do a 1:1 cob ratio, for literally half the cob price as Cree. We are still figuring out real current droop, "we" being robin and @BOBBY_G , so who knows.

------

But!

It's a great question that really makes me learn answering it. The way the lineup is arranged you could replace one 1825 with two 1812s and have nearly identical perfomance across the board. Heat dissipation per area, efficiency, the whole nine. Then you have twice the spread, and twice the pain in the ass to build.

But I guess that's the really cool thing. 3x 1212 (432 die), 2x 1812(432 die), 1x 1825(450 die) are all roughly equivalent and cost the same to buy. It's a brilliant lineup. 1818 is a Goldilocks cob.

Sorry, I have a hard time not giving nuanced answers with lots of qualifiers. Maybe somebody else can help.

A more fun answer would be 1812s replacing Cree at a 2:1 ratio running at 500mA/25W each. Unfair? Maybe not when you can buy two 1812s for every CXB and still have money left over for you and your gal at In-N-out.

Anybody else?

youre blinding them with science!

i do love the ol' in-n-out with my gal