Cheap and Cheerful DIY using Citizen cobs

Hello guys,

I am converting a mars II 900w (5W epistar chips) after a lot of headaches with it, and I am not sure what to go for.
The specs are:
Mars 2 900W 5w chips. 9 drivers inside: Voltage max 112v. Amperage max 0.71Amp also 4 fans at 12V 0.3 amp
My growing space is 0.7m wide x 0.8m deep x 2m high.
I've got the aluminium piece cut to size, cables,soldering station,thermal paste,etc... But I can't decide if to go for soft vero's 29, try a citizen c.o.b. or go for soft cree 3590 or 3070, (but the price of it and it's availability in Europe is a problem) .
It will be mainly for flower as I just grow autos and I veg them in a small box with a mix of CFL +T5

Thanks for the help!

BuscaLuz said:

Hello guys,

I am converting a mars II 900w (5W epistar chips) after a lot of headaches with it, and I am not sure what to go for.
The specs are:
Mars 2 900W 5w chips. 9 drivers inside: Voltage max 112v. Amperage max 0.71Amp also 4 fans at 12V 0.3 amp
My growing space is 0.7m wide x 0.8m deep x 2m high.
I've got the aluminium piece cut to size, cables,soldering station,thermal paste,etc... But I can't decide if to go for soft vero's 29, try a citizen c.o.b. or go for soft cree 3590 or 3070, (but the price of it and it's availability in Europe is a problem) .
It will be mainly for flower as I just grow autos and I veg them in a small box with a mix of CFL +T5

Thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

If those are constant current drivers that can do 112V, you have options. I'd go with 2x CLU048-1812 per driver for cheapness and ease of building. @robincnn has them in stock. Way, way cheaper than a Cree solution, and the new Veros are still MIA.

That is if I understand your driver specs correctly. Isn't there a Mars conversion thread here?

Hi!
Thanks for the fast answer amigo!
Well... I am not sure about the drivers as they are generic ones inside a plastic box without any specifications or labels.
I did test for voltage and Amperage with my multimeter to most of the drivers and all seem to have the same voltage values,the voltage average value I will say is 110V also having in consideration 4 of the 7 drivers also have the load of the 12v 0.2Amp fans.

The working surface is a square plate size of 40cm X40cm by the way! With two large disipators (the ones that are already on the mars).
I will do a bit of research about those clu048-1812, if they will fit well, amp required, voltage, lenses?
Also should I go 3000K 3500K 2700K or a mix of it?

Thanks and I will be back to report!

BuscaLuz said:

Hello guys,

I am converting a mars II 900w (5W epistar chips) after a lot of headaches with it, and I am not sure what to go for.
The specs are:
Mars 2 900W 5w chips. 9 drivers inside: Voltage max 112v. Amperage max 0.71Amp also 4 fans at 12V 0.3 amp
My growing space is 0.7m wide x 0.8m deep x 2m high.
I've got the aluminium piece cut to size, cables,soldering station,thermal paste,etc... But I can't decide if to go for soft vero's 29, try a citizen c.o.b. or go for soft cree 3590 or 3070, (but the price of it and it's availability in Europe is a problem) .
It will be mainly for flower as I just grow autos and I veg them in a small box with a mix of CFL +T5

Thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

You could purchase some cutter hard strips (2 per driver) and simply remove the front plate carrying the diodes, cut a new plate attach the hard strips (think you'd get away with 10).


Does your Mars 2 have switches on that model, can't recall if they did.

That will give you one very mean light pulling roughly 360-380w from the wall (240v) using just 5 of those drivers.

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3021

Zulunature said:

You could purchase some cutter hard strips (2 per driver) and simply remove the front plate carrying the diodes, cut a new plate attach the hard strips (think you'd get away with 10).


Does your Mars 2 have switches on that model, can't recall if they did.

That will give you one very mean light pulling roughly 360-380w from the wall (240v) using just 5 of those drivers.

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3021

View attachment 3746646

Click to expand...

Thanks for your answer!

I didn't know of those strips, I will also take a look at them, but it seems a really good option!
I will see If I found them in Europe.
If so witch ones go for? the 3000K is it just cri70 ?no cri 80 or 90?

Also it did not come with switches but I was planning to add or a switcher or a dimmer, or both...

Thanks again for your helpful answer!!

BuscaLuz said:

Thanks for your answer!

I didn't know of those strips, I will also take a look at them, but it seems a really good option!
I will see If I found them in Europe.
If so witch ones go for? the 3000K is it just cri70 ?no cri 80 or 90?

Also it did not come with switches but I was planning to add or a switcher or a dimmer, or both...

Thanks again for your helpful answer!!

Click to expand...

If you put a switch on you could run 2 strips each of say 2700-3000-3500K in a mix.

I want Mark to make some in a mix like that on one strip.

I don't know about dimming these drivers would love to do that myself but unsure exactly how to do so safely.

Have a look at the samsung hard strip thread.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/samsung-hard-strips.908616/

Zulunature said:

If you put a switch on you could run 2 strips each of say 2700-3000-3500K in a mix.

I want Mark to make some in a mix like that on one strip.

I don't know about dimming these drivers would love to do that myself but unsure exactly how to do so safely.

Have a look at the samsung hard strip thread.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/samsung-hard-strips.908616/

Click to expand...

Thanks man! looks interesting,but would those strips be powerfull enough to cover and penetrate all my growing space? Is a 0.7m x0.8m around 2m high.

BuscaLuz said:

Thanks man! looks interesting,but would those strips be powerfull enough to cover and penetrate all my growing space? Is a 0.7m x0.8m around 2m high.

Click to expand...

it is necessary to use all 9 drivers? .. I do not know how it looks inside Mars, but you should be able take advantage of only 4 drivers from 9 example? .. Should this possibility, i will go just 12pcs Citizen Clu048-1212 .. 8x3000k 80 CRi + 4x3000k 90CRi .. would give your space some 1,100 PPFD which I thought was an upper limit max .. more light the plant has probably not use and not much better harvest .. Use 2 CLU048-1812 for each driver would 18pcs 640W @ cobs and a total of 2,420 PPFD !! .. .. Extreme unnecessary waste of energy and danger of burning plants .. my choice 3x apartment CLU048 (2: 1 80,90CRi) per Driver and only 3 drivers @ 9xCOBs @ 830 PPFD @ only 213W COBs LED.. On the wall will be more.. I dont know by the efficiency of the drivers.. Or next choice 8xCLU048-1812 (3: 1 80,90CRi - 3,2,3)@ 4xdriver @ 1078PPFD @ 285W COBs

voon said:

it is necessary to use all 9 drivers? .. I do not know how it looks inside Mars, but you should be able take advantage of only 4 drivers from 9 example? .. Should this possibility, i will go just 12pcs Citizen Clu048-1212 .. 8x3000k 80 CRi + 4x3000k 90CRi .. would give your space some 1,100 PPFD which I thought was an upper limit max .. more light the plant has probably not use and not much better harvest .. Use 2 CLU048-1812 for each driver would 18pcs 640W @ cobs and a total of 2,420 PPFD !! .. .. Extreme unnecessary waste of energy and danger of burning plants .. my choice 3x apartment CLU048 (2: 1 80,90CRi) per Driver and only 3 drivers @ 9xCOBs @ 830 PPFD @ only 213W COBs LED.. On the wall will be more.. I dont know by the efficiency of the drivers.. Or next choice 8xCLU048-1812 (3: 1 80,90CRi - 3,2,3)@ 4xdriver @ 1078PPFD @ 285W COBs

Click to expand...

Um, first of all, this is impossible to read. Second of all, I was just telling him what a single driver might be able to do if he was right about the specs.

No need to use all the drivers with any cobs, obviously. And using 1212s is stupid.

voon said:

it is necessary to use all 9 drivers? .. I do not know how it looks inside Mars, but you should be able take advantage of only 4 drivers from 9 example? .. Should this possibility, i will go just 12pcs Citizen Clu048-1212 .. 8x3000k 80 CRi + 4x3000k 90CRi .. would give your space some 1,100 PPFD which I thought was an upper limit max .. more light the plant has probably not use and not much better harvest .. Use 2 CLU048-1812 for each driver would 18pcs 640W @ cobs and a total of 2,420 PPFD !! .. .. Extreme unnecessary waste of energy and danger of burning plants .. my choice 3x apartment CLU048 (2: 1 80,90CRi) per Driver and only 3 drivers @ 9xCOBs @ 830 PPFD @ only 213W COBs LED.. On the wall will be more.. I dont know by the efficiency of the drivers.. Or next choice 8xCLU048-1812 (3: 1 80,90CRi - 3,2,3)@ 4xdriver @ 1078PPFD @ 285W COBs

Click to expand...

Hi sir!
Very well explain, and that is what I was looking for!
My grow it is just for a personal use and my main concern is an even spread light through all my canopy and good penetration.
Drivers are crap, probably 65% efficient but for now I will keep it,I can allways replace it later on.

On the matter of what brand use I ended with the following conclusions (that it may indeed be wrong or be a much better ones).

Cree:
I know there are more cree options that I may have had a look at, but I choose the 3590.

The setup it will be 6 cree 3590cxb 3000K 80Cri 72V. at 0.7Amp

http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-search/en/optoelectronics/led-lighting-cobs-engines-modules/525140?k=cree+3590&k=&pkeyword=cree+3590&s=46788&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25
And that's about 270 british pounds.(without counting the light mounting)

Bridgelux:
Indeed I will go for the vero29 if so, even knowing the next gen of it is to be released very soon.

They will be 12 pieces of mix 3000k, 3500k 2 x driver. running very soft 0.7amp (maybe a waste)

http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-30E10K0-L-23/976-1253-ND/5180225
That will be 218£ (no mountings)

Citizen:
In here I been looking for the clu046,clu048 as they just released they next gen.

The Idea it was a mix of CLU048 3000K, 3500K high cri, also 12 cobs
2 x driver (but could do 3)

http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-search/en/optoelectronics/led-lighting-cobs-engines-modules/525140?FV=fffc066a,fff40008,fff80354,19380157&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=3&stock=1&pbfree=0&rohs=0&quantity=&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25
Price is 232£

As you can see, not really much price difference between!

P.D.: I though that a higher cri better light color/penetration, so... why to go cri 80 if can go 90 or 97?
Thanks !!

JorgeGonzales said:

Um, first of all, this is impossible to read. Second of all, I was just telling him what a single driver might be able to do if he was right about the specs.

No need to use all the drivers with any cobs, obviously. And using 1212s is stupid.

Click to expand...

So... in the case of the Citizen will you go just 1 cob x driver? as the 1812 require 52v. and mine are ruffly 110v? don't you want to keep a safe 10% tollerance? specially with this dodgy drivers?
I am affraid if I plug 2 1812 in a single driver won't light up!

I am not an expert, just someone who refuse to loose all the money I put into this piece of $h*! light.
So, I know that the cree option is probably the best with my driver situation, but it is also the more expensive one.

How do I know how much light (par,or luminens or ?)do I need to cover well all my space?

BuscaLuz said:

So... in the case of the Citizen will you go just 1 cob x driver? as the 1812 require 52v. and mine are ruffly 110v? don't you want to keep a safe 10% tollerance? specially with this dodgy drivers?
I am affraid if I plug 2 1812 in a single driver won't light up!

I am not an expert, just someone who refuse to loose all the money I put into this piece of $h*! light.
So, I know that the cree option is probably the best with my driver situation, but it is also the more expensive one.

How do I know how much light (par,or luminens or ?)do I need to cover well all my space?

Click to expand...

A constant current driver usually has a voltage range, for instance 50-100V where it is happy doing it's thing. But they also get more efficient the more they are loaded. Have you tried googling the actual drivers in there? Two 1812s would be about 100V, so plenty of buffer.

You might be right about cheap drivers, and to be on the safe side 2x1212 per driver might be the way to go. 68V, but for ease of building it's going to be hard to beat 2x1812s per driver. Same efficiency as 3x1212, a third less to wire up.

Here is the 1212:



The rest of these are posted a few pages back, but this will give you an idea of how to calculate for your space. Look in the PPF column, multiply by your number of cobs, and divide by your space in meters squared. This is PPFD aka photosyntetic photon flux density, and anywhere from 800-1400 is probably fine. That's up to you.

~1000 PPFD would be ummm 10 1212s? Basically @voon laid all that out, 10*57PPF/.56 m2

Yes, I did!
There is not much information out there regarding the interior of those lights...
But I did found a few, and they mount different ones deppending on the age and power of the model.
The drivers are naked!!! no info what so ever, that's why I had to test myself with the multimeter.

And if I understood correctly the formula I will need 12 clu048 1212 right?

0.7Amp will be 57.28Pf x 12 cobs = 687.36 divided by my space (0.7x0. = 859.2 score that will be between the range.
Have also in consideration that those need to be mount in a 40cmx40cm alluminium plate.

687/.56 = 1227 PPFD

Didn't @Zulunature actually do this conversion?

sorry to hijack jorge, i guess the mods havent figured out that i paid to be an advertiser prior to starting that thread, should be back soon hopefully (or maybe not, and we can get a fresh, non-trolly start)

Boo...I was on fire. They can restore threads, I believe.

yes, you are right .. my English is terrible and is hard to read my posts, I apologize for it .. yes, you're right again 3x1212 run on cheap Chinese driver would take too long time did not work, isn't Meanwell inside and run these drivers at 100 % could be definitely dangerous! .. Use 2x 1212 at the driver might be ok .. I think 2x1812 also is not ideal in terms of load drivers over 90% in 1212 .. 700 mA at a better efficiency than the 1812 price is still based on really well, even though the need for more COBS price is not more expensive than in 1812 .. the problem for him is probably availability .. price on Digikey is awful!

JorgeGonzales said:

Um, first of all, this is impossible to read. Second of all, I was just telling him what a single driver might be able to do if he was right about the specs.

No need to use all the drivers with any cobs, obviously. And using 1212s is stupid.

Click to expand...

BuscaLuz: where are you from in EU ?Citizen cob purchases via digikeg are extremely overpriced, not to buy .. buy a cheaper Cree buy from cutter.com.au , if it is possible for you

voon said:

BuscaLuz: where are you from in EU ?Citizen cob purchases via digikeg are extremely overpriced, not to buy .. is necessary it would be possible to buy a cheaper Cree buy thought cutter.com.au , if it is possible for you

Click to expand...

Why not just order from US sellers? Actually @BOBBY_G are you sure Citizen is ok with you reselling their cobs? They seem to restrict sales to official distributors and they are only able to ship to certain countries. Like CDI and tme.

JorgeGonzales said:

Why not just order from US sellers? Actually @BOBBY_G are you sure Citizen is ok with you reselling their cobs? They seem to restrict sales to official distributors and they are only able to ship to certain countries. Like CDI and tme.

Click to expand...

I agree.. i want buy CLU048 from US at soon. I'll be happy if it be possible.. Policy citizen I really do not like due to their limited