dudeoflife
Well-Known Member
Lord Dangly hit the nail on the head- you gotta keep that ph down, just as you would in rockwool and any other inert media.
Good luck!
Good luck!
cinderella99 leaf oddity
- Thread starter Dizzle Frost
- Start date
Lord Dangly Bits
Well-Known Member
Depraved does have a point here though. This is why I always tell new growers to NEVER grow more then one strain at a time. Different strains can have totally different needs, as can different pheno's of seeds. This is why, when ever I buy seeds from a new strain, I always pick the one plant that has the traits i like the most and take ALL of my Clones for that strain from that one plant. This way most all of the plants will react to the nutrients and environment in the same way. I know people that grow like 8 different strains at the same time. What a pain in the ass that can be. 2-3 different strains is enough work for me. Not to bad if you have strains with the same needs, but like right now. I have two different strains with two totally different needs in nutrients. what a pain in the ass. For some people this is no big deal. But for me, I am lazy and like things easy.
Dizzle Frost
Well-Known Member
@dude
Yeah....i had no idea to treat it like rockwool....ive always grown in soil and ignorantly went about the coco that way. Thanks !
@Lord
i know what you mean there..i just had a nitemare growing here with C99, BB99 and Shiva Skunk...all ate diff and its a ass pain. I should also mention ive totaly changed my whole setup in the last few weeks and have been trying to adjust since. I went from a 400 to 600 and switched from peat to coco so everything is new to me in this box again sorta. SOfar ive nute burnt, bleached and had horrible hieght issues with a couple :\ never again. 1 strain only from on unless like you said they are alike in maintenance.
I got 26 days left on the BB99 then its all C99 in the box.
THanks a shit load everyone! this info is golden to me
Yeah....i had no idea to treat it like rockwool....ive always grown in soil and ignorantly went about the coco that way. Thanks !
@Lord
i know what you mean there..i just had a nitemare growing here with C99, BB99 and Shiva Skunk...all ate diff and its a ass pain. I should also mention ive totaly changed my whole setup in the last few weeks and have been trying to adjust since. I went from a 400 to 600 and switched from peat to coco so everything is new to me in this box again sorta. SOfar ive nute burnt, bleached and had horrible hieght issues with a couple :\ never again. 1 strain only from on unless like you said they are alike in maintenance.
I got 26 days left on the BB99 then its all C99 in the box.
THanks a shit load everyone! this info is golden to me
Dizzle Frost
Well-Known Member
i went and got some new nutes today for coco....i got botanicare pure blend 1-4-5
advice appreciated
advice appreciated
Lord Dangly Bits
Well-Known Member
Dizzle. Not try to Bust your Nuts. Pun intended. But I have tried those Nutrients in Coco. You will get freaky PH with Botanicare Pure Blend Pro. I know this because I have use it. You need to watch your run off at all times. WHEN, not if. When it gets to 5.9 PH you Have to drop your Nutrients PH down to about 5.3. If not you are going to end up with a PH inside your Coco of about 7-8 PH. I do not know why this happens with those Nutrients, but it does. This is why I always tell people to use COCO specific nutrients, is because of the trouble i had with those exact nutrients and one other brand after that one.
You can make those nutrients work. But you MUST check your run off each and every time you feed them. I had to drop my Nutrient PH down to about 4.5 PH and flush them multiple times over 3-4 days to get my PH adjusted back into range. There is Canna Coco, Botanicare CSN17, And i hear that advnaced has a Monkey Juice that is made specifically for Coco.
I know the Botanicare Pure Blend says Coco on the label, but it sucks for coco. At least it did for me. I got some nice sweet buds from it, but keeping the PH of the coco in range was a huge hemorrhoid. If anyone else has used it and knows something different, please speak up.
If you look on the label, it says Soil Formula. Then down at the very bottom, It says,,,
for soil and coco in small letters. Almost like they added that later on.
You can make those nutrients work. But you MUST check your run off each and every time you feed them. I had to drop my Nutrient PH down to about 4.5 PH and flush them multiple times over 3-4 days to get my PH adjusted back into range. There is Canna Coco, Botanicare CSN17, And i hear that advnaced has a Monkey Juice that is made specifically for Coco.
I know the Botanicare Pure Blend says Coco on the label, but it sucks for coco. At least it did for me. I got some nice sweet buds from it, but keeping the PH of the coco in range was a huge hemorrhoid. If anyone else has used it and knows something different, please speak up.
If you look on the label, it says Soil Formula. Then down at the very bottom, It says,,,
for soil and coco in small letters. Almost like they added that later on.
dudeoflife
Well-Known Member
You've got me thinking, Lord Dangly Bits
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
It's a genetic thingie and something I wouldn't be concerned about. Today's hybrid is a mutt anyway and a genetic oddity or throwback to a weird recessive gene is gonna happen now and then. As long as the leafset is green, it's producing food for the entire plant and that's all that counts in this game.
Regarding growing totally in coir, use a complete food, one that contains 16 elements like you would with hydro. "Specific" doesn't mean squat in this racket. Vendors will tell you it's "coco specific" while pawning off some high priced crap that is deficient or imbalanced for the target medium. Only way to protect yourself is wean yourself off cannabis specific foods and their catchy product names and learn plant nutrition.
pH correction is way over-rated in cannabis forums. If you done screwed up on your garden, somehow, someway, the forum's solution, the easy way out, is to cry out a forum mantra like "adjust your pH!"
Regarding growing totally in coir, use a complete food, one that contains 16 elements like you would with hydro. "Specific" doesn't mean squat in this racket. Vendors will tell you it's "coco specific" while pawning off some high priced crap that is deficient or imbalanced for the target medium. Only way to protect yourself is wean yourself off cannabis specific foods and their catchy product names and learn plant nutrition.
pH correction is way over-rated in cannabis forums. If you done screwed up on your garden, somehow, someway, the forum's solution, the easy way out, is to cry out a forum mantra like "adjust your pH!"
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I do, based on crosses made years ago.
Friends really love the C99 "F1" cross I grew outdoors last year. Seriously, there is no F1 of anything. I took pollen from a very nice C99 male and crossed it with the attached female. Worked out well. These were seeds direct from the Bros Grimm's crossers (Soul and Sly) via the now defunct Canadian Heaven's Stairway seedbank. 
Lord Dangly Bits
Well-Known Member
How many crops have you completed in COCO? From what you have just said, I bet the number is ZERO. Not trying to be mean or anything, but Coco is a different system then Soil and Hydro. It is like a Hybreed of the two, with a few other needs thrown in.
I have seen the PH in COCO spike to as high as 7-8 PH before because of the wrong type of nutrients being used and not enough run off to allow to flush out the Coco. And yes there is Nutrients out there that work just fine with Coco that are not Coco specific, But until you find that brand you will have trouble, especially if you are not a knowledgable grower. So for a beginner grower, i would strongly suggest something like Canna Coco A&B, or Botanicare CSN17 for Coco. These two nutrients are very, very cost effective and even cheaper then a lot of the non coco nutrients. To say that PH is not important in COCO is not a very wise statement, and just tells me you have never grown in this medium.
I bet I have 12 PM's from people thanking me on the help I gave them fixing their Coco grow. Most of them were from using nutrients that would not work in coco, not giving them enough water and often enough or to high of PH.
Dizzle Frost
Well-Known Member
Yeah i got ya......ill try these out....im strapped for cash sorta righ tnow so im getting new things as i have cash. I have to buy a ph tester still.....i know the botanicare is 10x better than the cheaper shit i was using. The hydro guy is running it in his herb garden in the store and he said it was pretty good and his stuff looked pretty lush. If it takes more maintenace im ok with that, i like to spend as much time in the garden as i can , and im learning alot about coco by fucking things up here and there. With all the help from you guys i will make it work
But thanks for the tip, ill keep an eye out for that now to.
Dizzle Frost
Well-Known Member
I got mine from Joey Weed , they are F2 Brothers Griim. I really liked it but i noticed it got better by the 3rd generations of clones.
Dizzle Frost
Well-Known Member
Nice plant.....looks strong.....did you ever fix the weak stem problem by breeding these? Ive read people have made the stems a lil stronger by selection.I do, based on crosses made years ago.
View attachment 1445035
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Thanks, it's all about having plenty of healthy leaves until harvest. I don't believe I had lost one leafset at this point in flowering. Most folks' leaf retention problems start about 3 weeks into flowering due to their abuse of bloom foods, which in most cases WILL work against you.
I only saw one problem with a C99 I raised and that was gangly male. Its internodes must have been 14", never seen the likes of it even in all the sativas I've grown - Haze, Mex, Zamal, Dalat Vietnamese. It was just one of those recessive throwbacks to a sativa oddity is my best guess. All the C99 females and their progeny were fine in respect to their stem girth. My favorite cross in all respects was a cross to a fine Peak19 male, it was flat out bullet proof - vigorous, healthy, very strong stems, potent and produced colas bigger than your arm.
Also, C99 is prone to hermie to a limited degree, not any more than most mutts, just watch for it. It's also prone to bud rot, so keep the RH low during mid to late flowering.
Again, coco has no nutritional value in the manner (time line) in which you'll be using it.
Here's a shot of Bros F1 at 17 days flowering showing the trunk/stem structure, all females. Natural room light, notice the rich green color of the leaves.....that's what you want.
Good luck,
UB
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Labels mean nothing to me, only NPK values. With coco, I'd use Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro - 9-3-6 and Bloom - 3-9-6, mix and match if you choose. Those are pretty standard NPK values in the real plant world i.e. 3-1-2. It is a complete food, 16 elements, cheap, one part. 7 elements as found in the Botanicare CSN17 line is pretty lame, and will not produce decent results except in a well rounded, "composty" soil that has its own nutritional charge. At least they have the NPK values down pat on the CSN17. BUT WAIT kiddies!!!!! Gotta have some "Ripe" food, guaranteed to induce leaf drop and promote lower yields, hah! (1-5-4)
http://www.hhydro.com/files/Instructions/CNS17chart.pdf
Again, here's a perfect example of another cannabis specific company misrepresenting their products with such hype: "Complete liquid fertilizer program." Uhhhhhhh, 7 elements is hardly "complete".
Yes, I've grown in coco.
Lord Dangly Bits
Well-Known Member
Labels mean nothing to me, only NPK values. With coco, I'd use Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro - 9-3-6 and Bloom - 3-9-6, mix and match if you choose. Those are pretty standard NPK values in the real plant world i.e. 3-1-2. It is a complete food, 16 elements, cheap, one part. 7 elements as found in the Botanicare CSN17 line is pretty lame, and will not produce decent results except in a well rounded, "composty" soil that has its own nutritional charge. At least they have the NPK values down pat on the CSN17. BUT WAIT kiddies!!!!! Gotta have some "Ripe" food, guaranteed to induce leaf drop and promote lower yields, hah! (1-5-4)
http://www.hhydro.com/files/Instructions/CNS17chart.pdf
Again, here's a perfect example of another cannabis specific company misrepresenting their products with such hype: "Complete liquid fertilizer program." Uhhhhhhh, 7 elements is hardly "complete".
Yes, I've grown in coco.
I hear what you are saying here Uncle Ben. But still I think that PH in COCO is important. Especially if you are a new grower. And on the CSN17, I have not used it yet. I have just had so many people say good things about it, that I know grow nice buds in Coco. But I also have seen an Ingredients Chart on Dyna-Gro that shows that it only has 8 additional elements. http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/dyna-gro-foliage-pro-9-3-6/fertilizers Dyna-Gro also seems as Costly as the two Coco nutrients I spoke of.
But this does not mean that it is not a good Fert for Coco and other mediums. And maybe there is another chart that shows more elements. But then, which chart do you go by. Because this one was from Dyna-gro's web site.
But I have seen PH get to high or too low and cause trouble. Hell, I know people that never check PH and grow sweet ass buds. But point in case, just in my last crop, I was useing a new Nutrient and was not checking my run off. I started getting little grown/gold splatches and the leafs started turning a light greenish/yellow. I checked the PH of my run off and it was well over 7. I left everything the same, BUT, I adjusted my PH lower and flushed to dial in my medium for PH. 3-4 days later the leafs were back to a nice green and the splatches stopped.
Those are some nice looking plants there Uncle Ben, and I would be interested in maybe trying this Dyna-Gro. Do you have a link to a chart that shows all these additional 16 elements it has?
.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
16, like I said. From Dyna-Gro's website, and well worth printing: < http://www.dyna-gro.com/Websitehttp://www.dyna-gro.com/Website pdf Files/Dyna-Gro Brochure 2007.pdf >
Cut/paste the entire URL, the above link is truncated.
I'm still on 2 bottles I bought about 10 years ago and so far, no clumps have fallen out of solution.
Being that coco is pretty much inert, there should be little to no direct correlation to coco regarding pH swings. Your water and choice of salts will drive pH values.
Good luck,
UB
Lord Dangly Bits
Well-Known Member
Cool. Found that ingredients chart Uncle Ben. Wonder why they have two different charts for the same Nutrient.
Anyway, As you said above.....
(Being that coco is pretty much inert, there should be little to no direct correlation to coco regarding pH swings. Your water and choice of salts will drive pH values)
This is true, this is why it is so important to have enough run off. And that some nutrients do not work well in Coco. Coco is kind of like a sponge. It has little micro holes with in it. Some brands nutrients (SALTS) like to fill these voids with salts and then spike the PH, making it to where you need to flush them to often, or use to much nutrients. And as I have stated before, there are Non Coco Specific nutrients that work great. And this Dyna-gro just might be one of them. But I know for a fact that some Nutrients do not work well with Coco, Especially with a new grower.
I am interested in trying this brand in my next grow. If what they say is true and it only takes 1/4 tsp per gallon. Then even an 8 ounce bottle will make 192 gallons of nutrient soup. Is that what you mix for a Hydro type mixture Uncle Ben? Also, there is no need for additives during Flowering at all? Also, how big are these two bottles of nutrients that you have had for 10 years? That seems like a long time to have Nutrients laying around.
Anyway, As you said above.....
(Being that coco is pretty much inert, there should be little to no direct correlation to coco regarding pH swings. Your water and choice of salts will drive pH values)
This is true, this is why it is so important to have enough run off. And that some nutrients do not work well in Coco. Coco is kind of like a sponge. It has little micro holes with in it. Some brands nutrients (SALTS) like to fill these voids with salts and then spike the PH, making it to where you need to flush them to often, or use to much nutrients. And as I have stated before, there are Non Coco Specific nutrients that work great. And this Dyna-gro just might be one of them. But I know for a fact that some Nutrients do not work well with Coco, Especially with a new grower.
I am interested in trying this brand in my next grow. If what they say is true and it only takes 1/4 tsp per gallon. Then even an 8 ounce bottle will make 192 gallons of nutrient soup. Is that what you mix for a Hydro type mixture Uncle Ben? Also, there is no need for additives during Flowering at all? Also, how big are these two bottles of nutrients that you have had for 10 years? That seems like a long time to have Nutrients laying around.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
One is incomplete, most likely to save page space.
Other than it being a kewl trend, I really don't know why any one would choose coco as their medium. I used to use it 30 years ago for its aeration properties, orchid culture, but cannabis is different. If you're doing water culture, fine, coco would be great. If soil, then mix up your own, save some money, and be done with it. Just because it's popular, "everyone is doing it", doesn't mean it's a good thang.
That would be enough for a small seedling or late in cycle. 1 tsp./gal. would be about right for a fast growing plant that is bulking up quickly, and requires more salts. Whatever, recommend you use water that is below a TDS of 500.
Those bottles are 44 oz each. You have to understand I buy salts in bulk, like 25 or 50 lbs. at a time, plus I'm no longer growing orchids in inert lava rock. I did use the last of the Foliage Pro yesterday for quite a few pot bound plants that are coming out of winter dormancy.
Dyna-Gro is complete unless your seeing something I'm not. No additives. This is the real world, not Advanced Shysters. It's leaves that produce food for the plant, not you. You're only there to provide the correct mineral support.
Good luck,
UB
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
It's a mutant! Just chillout and grow it out, things will sort them selves out by harvest time.