Climate Crisis Fraud -written by a man who shares the Nobel Prize with Al Gore

ViRedd · Mar 12, 2008

The free market, left to the inovation of Man's mind, will find the answer. Here's a couple of links to illustrate what's coming.

Honda FCX

Honda FCX Clarity

Also, Honda is developing a hydrogen generator that will be small and efficient enough to generate all the hydrogen needed for one's vehicles in one's own garage.

Just think ... Hydrogen cars and nuclear power. No oil or coal to pollute. All in the name of, and the quest of profit.

Vi

medicineman · Mar 12, 2008

ViRedd said:
The free market, left to the inovation of Man's mind, will find the answer. Here's a couple of links to illustrate what's coming.

Honda FCX

Honda FCX Clarity

Also, Honda is developing a hydrogen generator that will be small and efficient enough to generate all the hydrogen needed for one's vehicles in one's own garage.

Just think ... Hydrogen cars and nuclear power. No oil or coal to pollute. All in the name of and the quest of profit.

Vi

PLease provide more info on the hydrogen generator. I'm interested in cost etc.

ViRedd · Mar 12, 2008

medicineman said:
PLease provide more info on the hydrogen generator. I'm interested in cost etc.

Just do a google search. There's tons of info on Honda's hydrogen generator. The one that's to be used to convert water into hydrogen for personal vehicles is in the experimental stage now.

Vi

medicineman · Mar 12, 2008

ViRedd said:
Just do a google search. There's tons of info on Honda's hydrogen generator. The one that's to be used to convert water into hydrogen for personal vehicles is in the experimental stage now.

Vi

I wonder why they cant find a way to use it in the internal combustion engine. seems like hydrogen is rather volatile. They use natural gas, why not hydrogen gas. I like the way an internal combustion engine works, I've built a few V-8s and like the power. Seems like a waste to throw them away so they can sell us new technology.

ccodiane · Mar 12, 2008

medicineman said:
I wonder why they cant find a way to use it in the internal combustion engine. seems like hydrogen is rather volatile. They use natural gas, why not hydrogen gas. I like the way an internal combustion engine works, I've built a few V-8s and like the power. Seems like a waste to throw them away so they can sell us new technology.

One of the main disadvantages of a Hydrogen engine is it won't work, yet, or very well, in below freezing weather. The by-product of the reaction, water, freezes in the engine..... :mrgreen:

medicineman · Mar 12, 2008

ccodiane said:
One of the main disadvantages of a Hydrogen engine is it won't work, yet, or very well, in below freezing weather. The by-product of the reaction, water, freezes in the engine.....

It's like a catch 22; The gas engine heats up the earth so the hydrogen engine can work but it will cool the earth and quit working, although it would be nice to use tap water for fuel, maybe it would still work with a little anti-freeze.

closet.cult · Mar 12, 2008

ViRedd said:
The free market, left to the inovation of Man's mind, will find the answer. Here's a couple of links to illustrate what's coming.

Honda FCX

Honda FCX Clarity

Also, Honda is developing a hydrogen generator that will be small and efficient enough to generate all the hydrogen needed for one's vehicles in one's own garage.

Just think ... Hydrogen cars and nuclear power. No oil or coal to pollute. All in the name of, and the quest of profit.

Vi

i'd love to see it!

profit is a powerful motive.

medicineman · Mar 12, 2008

closet.cult said:
i'd love to see it!

profit is a powerful motive.

I wonder why if there is so much profit in hydrogen fuel they haven't started big time, could it be that there is still a lot of oil to sell? At 300.00 a barrel, not that unfeasable, there is still a lot of duckets in the ground. BTW, do you see who is doing the research on hydrogen, the oil companies, any guesses on who will control the distribution of hydrogen?

ccodiane · Mar 12, 2008

And a legitimate motive....

ccodiane · Mar 12, 2008

medicineman said:
I wonder why if there is so much profit in hydrogen fuel they haven't started big time, could it be that there is still a lot of oil to sell? At 300.00 a barrel, not that unfeasable, there is still a lot of duckets in the ground. BTW, do you see who is doing the research on hydrogen, the oil companies, any guesses on who will control the distribution of hydrogen?

The oil companies are privy to personal experience regarding government mandates and the power they hold. After being taxed and regulated to such a degree, they no doubt see the direction the government is going regarding this countries energy policy, and are wise to be at the front, or riding the wave, of this "push". The same can be said for "big auto".

medicineman · Mar 12, 2008

ccodiane said:
The oil companies are privy to personal experience regarding government mandates and the power they hold. After being taxed and regulated to such a degree, they no doubt see the direction the government is going regarding this countries energy policy, and are wise to be at the front, or riding the wave, of this "push". The same can be said for "big auto".

Yup, there goes the garden hose theory.

ViRedd · Mar 12, 2008

Things are already changing as a result of the pressure at the gas pump. Business, controlled by the free market, will change ... and is changing to meet demand. I think I said in a previous thread that I'm seriously thinking about buying a new Toyota Prius. I know a few people who own them ... and they are getting above the mileage advertised by Toyota. Some, who drive carefully are averaging over 50mph. I took one out for a test drive about a month ago, and I have to say ... nice car! Way more pep that I thought it would have. Cruises on the freeway with no problems at all at 80. The one I drove had all the bells and whistles ... 28k out the door. Now that I'm considering the Prius, I've really started to notice just how many are on the road. Toyota is selling these things like hotcakes. Also, I'm considering the Camery Hibred. Haven't driven one yet ... but they look nice. As a side bonus ... the Toyotas are bullet proof.

Vi

ccodiane · Mar 12, 2008

To rent a compact car, a "hibred", costs nearly double what a full size car is renting for in my area. So....you negate any savings in gas by the higher rental rate, and, get "less" car too....unless your doing it to save the planet....... :mrgreen:

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf

Excerpt from........

"The Top 10 most energy efficient vehicles over their lifetime:
1. Scion xB ($0.48 per mile)
2. Ford Escort (0.57 per mile)
3. Jeep Wrangler ($0.60 per mile)
4. Chevrolet Tracker ($0.69 per mile)
5. Toyota Echo ($0.70 per mile)
6. Saturn Ion ($0.71 per mile)
7. Hyundai Elantra ($0.72 per mile)
8. Dodge Neon ($0.73 per mile)
9. Toyota Corolla ($0.73 per mile)
10. Scion xA ($0.74 per mile)

The 10 least energy efficient vehicles over their lifetime:
1. Mercedes Benz produced Maybach ($11.58 per mile)
2. Volkswagen Phaeton ($11.21 per mile)
3. Rolls-Royce (full line average: $10.66 per mile)
4. Bentley (full line average: $10.56 per mile)
5. Audi allroad Quattro ($5.59 per mile)
6. Audi A8 ($4.96 per mile)
7. Audi A6 ($4.96 per mile)
8. Lexus LS430 ($4.73 per mile)
9. Porsche Carrera GT ($4.53 per mile)
10. Acura NSX ($4.45 per mile)

Hybrid energy efficiency over their lifetime:
1. Honda Insight ($2.94 per mile)
2. Ford Escape Hybrid ($3.18 per mile)
3. Honda Civic Hybrid ($3.24 per mile)
4. Toyota Prius ($3.25 per mile)
5. Honda Accord Hybrid ($3.30 per mile)"

Refuting of arguments against validity, by author......

Automotive Energy

ViRedd · Mar 12, 2008

Thanks for the link, ccodiane ...

I read the info on the Prius with interest. They are talking about the entire energy "footprint" of the car from parts aquisition, manufacturing and driving.

Here's the deal ... I just filled up the tank in my V8 auto today for a total of $71.00. I do mostly city driving and probably average just a little under 20 mpg. The Prius gets better mileage "city" than it does on "highway." The folks I know who are getting 50+ mph from their Prius' do mostly city driving. I wouldn't be buying a Prius to reduce my "carbon footprint," but to get away from $76-dollar fill-ups at the pump. Here's where not just the Prius wouldn't be cost effective ... but this would apply to any car. My present car is still drivable, although its showing wear. I'd say its good for another two years at least. Its paid for and has been for quite a few years now. So ... do I spend 27k on a new car that gets better mileage, or do I keep my present car, with ensuing repairs and continue to drive the gas guzzler?

Vi

ccodiane · Mar 12, 2008

Buy 2 years old, low mileage, for 15K and drive your ass off with your savings.....this has always been my philosophy....many, many people buy new cars, baby their cars, and then decide they want a new car or a lower payment a few years later. Just take it to a trusted mechanic and have him do the work-up. IMO....

PS- and get a great detailer to detail you old car, (around $300), prior to selling. This can be the difference in thousands, literally, in selling cost. People want a "super clean" car.

ccodiane · Mar 12, 2008

Oh, and read this. The info is from the second link I posted. I guess the guy was getting a bunch of flak for saying that the prius, over a lifetime, including research, marketing, construction, disposal, etc. was more inefficient than the hummer, so he responded. It actually, the response, makes the hybrid look more feasible in the near term.

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/Why%201001000%20Miles%20for%20Prius.pdf

Excerpt from-

"Can the Prius be driven more than 100,000 miles? Of course. The vehicle is superbly
engineered."

ccodiane · Mar 12, 2008

You know, after reading the article again, here's what I think. Hang on to your old car for another year or two, and wait for the hybrid technology to become more sound. At the rate these thing move, technologies, 2 years could mean a world of difference in longevity and serviceability.

ViRedd · Mar 13, 2008

ccodiane ...

Thanks for your input ... and the links.

Yep ... In recent years, with my quest to attain life simplification, I've been buying used cars and then driving the wheels off of them. Five or six years with no car payments is a beautiful thing. I used to buy a new car every two or three years with the resultant never ending car payments. I no longer have the desire to "make a statement," or "impress." Honestly, the simpler I can make my life, the better I like it.

Vi

HotNSexyMILF · Mar 13, 2008

ViRedd said:
ccodiane ...

Thanks for your input ... and the links.

Yep ... In recent years, with my quest to attain life simplification, I've been buying used cars and then driving the wheels off of them. Five or six years with no car payments is a beautiful thing. I used to buy a new car every two or three years with the resultant never ending car payments. I no longer have the desire to "make a statement," or "impress." Honestly, the simpler I can make my life, the better I like it.

Vi

Agreed.. I've never had a new car.. lol. Not even like semi new.. lol.. always 10+ years... drive it into the ground then buy another.. :blsmoke:

Who do i have to impress? LOL.. my check book def. wouldn't be impressed I can tell ya that much.. lol.. I still use dial up because I'm cheap.. lol.. :mrgreen:

The simpler things are the more joys I find.. absolutely..

medicineman · Mar 13, 2008

HotNSexyMILF said:
Agreed.. I've never had a new car.. lol. Not even like semi new.. lol.. always 10+ years... drive it into the ground then buy another.. Who do i have to impress? LOL.. my check book def. wouldn't be impressed I can tell ya that much.. lol.. I still use dial up because I'm cheap.. lol..

The simpler things are the more joys I find.. absolutely..

I get the point, drive junk and avoid the high cost. I did that for years. Being a mechanic, I repaired them myself and saved even more. In my older reality, I decided to award myself and buy a new truck. Little did I know that within 7 years the price of fuel would triple. I now own a very nice gas hog. It will get 19 MPG on the highway, but around town, it only pulls down 12. Now I drive very little, unless I take it on the road, maybe 100-200 miles a month, so my fuel costs and my carbon footprint are much less than a person that gets 30 MPG and drives say 1,000-2,000 miles a mo. What I'm trying to say is it's all relative. Price to hassle may be a factor. With my almost new truck, I have no fear getting in it and driving to say new york other than fuel costs. 18-25 bucks a hundred miles. A 1,000 mile trip will eat up 180.00-250.00 in gas alone, thats 540.00-750.00 in fuel to go to NYC from vegas. Now flying and taxi fare seems reasonable or a rental car. If I wasn't so imprinted with the automobile, I'd get an electric go cart and do all my local stuff with that.

Climate Crisis Fraud -written by a man who shares the Nobel Prize with Al Gore

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