Clone Bubbleponics -- Stem rot / dapping off -- Help needed

jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
From all you oh so wise green thumbers, some assistance is needed! Ahh...

My friend recently switched from an Aeroponic cloner to trying Bubbleponics (most on here agree that Bubbleponics has superior results). That combined with less maintenance my friend recently decided to make the switch. It should be said, the water leaks, worries about water temps, difficulty cleaning the unit etc are not missed. However... my friend is running into stem rot / damping off with the clones. Take a look at the photo's below.

Is the water level perhaps too high in the res? When the top is lifted the steps appear to be drip water. The system is totally light proof. Calcium hypochlorite is used to keep the system pathogen free. Any ideas?

Thanks!
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Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Here's your cure. Aero Clone instead! It works better.
Just lower the water to about an inch above the pump and throw a mesh filter around it(pantyhose works in a pinch), build a spraying manifold out of either PVC or black vinyl tubing, and screw in some green or red spray nozzles every 3-4" or so, from Amazon!(buy the mesh filter too if you don't have one). Don't add too many though you want pressure. You just drill like a 1/16-1/8" hole and self thread them in.

You can use the exact same system. Just run the pump 15on/15off unless you can fetchgetva yourself a smaller cycle timer.
 
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jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
@Airwalker16 Did a DIY aerocloner for the last round. It worked well but was a super pain to maintain. I've read on here that many have had great success with bubbleponic cloners, better than their aerocloners even. With aerocloners it's a huge pain -- water leaks, cleaning the pump, it's difficult to change out the water, and on and on. Ugh.

Also the calcium hypochlorite is extremely diluted and then added at 1mL per gallon only to run a sterile res. With res temps just below 70 degrees with high humidity no one wants pathogens.

My question is why is stem rot / damping off occurring? The stem goes limp and becomes mushy. SWIM took out some water to drop the res levels. Wondering what the cause might be...
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
jjng5 said:
@Airwalker16 Did a DIY aerocloner for the last round. It worked well but was a super pain to maintain. I've read on here that many have had great success with bubbleponic cloners, better than their aerocloners even. With aerocloners it's a huge pain -- water leaks, cleaning the pump, it's difficult to change out the water, and on and on. Ugh.

Also the calcium hypochlorite is extremely diluted and then added at 1mL per gallon only to run a sterile res. With res temps just below 70 degrees with high humidity no one wants pathogens.

My question is why is stem rot / damping off occurring? The stem goes limp and becomes mushy. SWIM took out some water to drop the res levels. Wondering what the cause might be...
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Leaks? Huh? IIf your current setup can hold a full res of water I can guarantee that just above the pump would be just fine.

Stem rot is from being in the water. Which is why in telling you to go back to Aero. I have 95% success. Just make sure you cut about an inch above where your cutting ends and slice towards the end lightly. Then finish it by pulling off the piece stripping it down to the end to expose the cambium.
 
jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
@athomegrowing and @Airwalker16

I really think it might be the amount of pressure exerted on the stem. Stems are cut and immediately placed in dechlorinated water with ThriveAlive and then before put into medium dipped into Clonex rooting gel. Yesterday all viable clones were transferred to either black neoprene clone discs which are not as wide or colored neoprene discs after first trimming the circumference. Take a peek...

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What do you guys think?
 
athomegrowing

athomegrowing

Well-Known Member
I've used both net pots with hydroton, and clone collars recently and i didn't see anything like this. Did you break the stems? Maybe you man-handled them, I'm not sure. Neoprene shouldn't break the stems though, people wouldn't use it if it did that.

Also you should trim the fan leaves, you have too much leaf.
 
jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
athomegrowing said:
I've used both net pots with hydroton, and clone collars recently and i didn't see anything like this. Did you break the stems? Maybe you man-handled them, I'm not sure. Neoprene shouldn't break the stems though, people wouldn't use it if it did that.
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They were sold as "2 inch" neoprene discs but you can see from the picture above how this "2 inch" disc sizes up to the 2" drill saw hole. I examined the stems and some stems are fine, others are bruised slightly, and some have become mushy at the pressure point over many days. Ouch... what do you think?
 
athomegrowing

athomegrowing

Well-Known Member
jjng5 said:
They were sold as "2 inch" neoprene discs but you can see from the picture above how this "2 inch" disc sizes up to the 2" drill saw hole. I examined the stems and some stems are fine, others are bruised slightly, and some have become mushy at the pressure point over many days. Ouch... what do you think?
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the collar gets jammed in to the hole. its supposed to be snug fit to ensure it's light proof, etc.

throw out the mushy ones, throw out any broken ones. they risk infection and just growing like shit while they heal.
 
jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
... just threw out another 5 more a few moments ago. Every day I feel like another half dozen bite the dust. This is getting old. Stems get mushy in one place or another and look like the photo above. With the stem removed the neoprene has a little bit of a green goo mushy substance left behind that I end up sterilizing for another round of clones.I cannot understand what is happening if the neoprene discs are not too tight. The stems are not sitting in water yet the are moist to inspection when the lid is lifted. There are four eight inch air stones. Water is pH adjusted. Humidity dome is utilized and/or humidifier used to keep humidity in range. This is getting frustrating and is throwing everything off.
 
athomegrowing

athomegrowing

Well-Known Member
jjng5 said:
... just threw out another 5 more a few moments ago. Every day I feel like another half dozen bite the dust. This is getting old. Stems get mushy in one place or another and look like the photo above. With the stem removed the neoprene has a little bit of a green goo mushy substance left behind that I end up sterilizing for another round of clones.I cannot understand what is happening if the neoprene discs are not too tight. The stems are not sitting in water yet the are moist to inspection when the lid is lifted. There are four eight inch air stones. Water is pH adjusted. Humidity dome is utilized and/or humidifier used to keep humidity in range. This is getting frustrating and is throwing everything off.
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chill. take a breath. the sealed container will absolutely have visible humidity everywhere inside, it's a sealed tub homie, the water will be everywhere due to the bubbling and condensation.

You don't need the humidity dome, you don't need to mist. Keep the humidity high and let them ride it out. If you give them too much of a good environment you'll just shock them when you inevitably take them from it. They could root in your flower tent... Don't need much special shit.
 
70's natureboy

70's natureboy

Well-Known Member
Clone King is still the king. If you want to just buy something that works instead of building your own contraption this is the way to go. Just add tap water or spring water and plug it in. No other chemicals needed.
 
jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
I think it was a pathogen. Under the lid there was a grey almost invisible spider-like veiny growth that eventually works its way to the stems and causes it to rot from the inside. Shit...

@70's natureboy Clone king doesn't look like they have a unit large enough - I need at least 60 sites. Grr.

Yesterday went thru and called any stems that looked affected and sterilized those discs. I changed the res container. On the lid use hydrogen peroxide misted and cold water and a tooth brush to clean off as much as possible could without harming the clones.

I'm supposing that the lid is not light proof enough even with the four coats of Krylox paint I used. What do you think? Might need to use krylon paint on the inside of the lid too after this clone cycle. That or go back to aero cloning where waters misting everywhere I guess... shit
 
athomegrowing

athomegrowing

Well-Known Member
jjng5 said:
I think it was a pathogen. Under the lid there was a grey almost invisible spider-like veiny growth that eventually works its way to the stems and causes it to rot from the inside. Shit...

@70's natureboy Clone king doesn't look like they have a unit large enough - I need at least 60 sites. Grr.

Yesterday went thru and called any stems that looked affected and sterilized those discs. I changed the res container. On the lid use hydrogen peroxide misted and cold water and a tooth brush to clean off as much as possible could without harming the clones.

I'm supposing that the lid is not light proof enough even with the four coats of Krylox paint I used. What do you think? Might need to use krylon paint on the inside of the lid too after this clone cycle. That or go back to aero cloning where waters misting everywhere I guess... shit
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Sounds horrible. Sanitize with bleach. I use 3 products because I have them on hand anyway: Orca, Great White and Hydroguard. I don't know what you have going on, but thankfully I haven't seen anything like that.

I don't think light leaks matter when you're running beneficials.
 
jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
I have beneficials but thought sanitized was better to run through cloners. On hand I have Great white, hydroguard, cannazym, and Southern AG mixed and diluted for application 1-2 mL per gallon. Last evening when switching the water out and cleaning everything I added fresh water with calcium hypochlorite -- that's been running for about 18 hours or so -- maybe I should change the water out in place of dechlorinated with beneficials? What do you think?
 
jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
Uh oh. I must have had the water level a little too low last night -- they were all wilty and droopy this morning. They should bounce back though -- I've seen this before. Plus humidity was around 70% and it looks like the stems were getting some water. Upon closer inspection of the underneath of the lid and the res container, things look clean of that pathogen (whatever it was). I dumped and wiped out the res again. I didn't wait to dechlorinate the water, however changed out the water and used some warm water (which comes from my hot water tank of course) and I added a little of those 4 bene's -- Great white, Hydroguard, Southern AG diluted, and Cannazym. Since the water wasn't dechlorinated, should probably redose in another 24-48 hours I'm assuming with a little more. What do you think?

Thanks everyone for their kind help and support!
 
athomegrowing

athomegrowing

Well-Known Member
jjng5 said:
Uh oh. I must have had the water level a little too low last night -- they were all wilty and droopy this morning. They should bounce back though -- I've seen this before. Plus humidity was around 70% and it looks like the stems were getting some water. Upon closer inspection of the underneath of the lid and the res container, things look clean of that pathogen (whatever it was). I dumped and wiped out the res again. I didn't wait to dechlorinate the water, however changed out the water and used some warm water (which comes from my hot water tank of course) and I added a little of those 4 bene's -- Great white, Hydroguard, Southern AG diluted, and Cannazym. Since the water wasn't dechlorinated, should probably redose in another 24-48 hours I'm assuming with a little more. What do you think?

Thanks everyone for their kind help and support!
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I just add a couple of drops of seachem prime to my tap water, it claims to neutralize chlorine and chloramine so I can use the tap without letting it sit out.
 
jjng5

jjng5

Well-Known Member
athomegrowing said:
I just add a couple of drops of seachem prime to my tap water, it claims to neutralize chlorine and chloramine so I can use the tap without letting it sit out.
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Doesn't that work by using a chemical to neutralize the chlorine? I was always afraid that the chemical would also harm the beneficials in some way. What do you think?
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
What's the temps like? Stem rot is a fungus and thrives at warmer temps. I lost a 36 clone batch years ago using a heat mat and never again.

I doubt it's due to any light leakage. My little bubble cloner is just a small rubbermaid tub with nothing extra on the lid to block light and I've never got stem rot tho had a bit of root rot start on a couple when I left it too long but the plants grew fine once in pots of promix. I've done about 50 DWC grows in the larger tubs without ever painting or covering the lids either and no problems.
 
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