Clones dying WTF?????

Throw your Rapid Rooters, Aero Cloners and the like in the trash.

Get some playbox sand or beach sand, any kind of sifted fine sand. It must be clean of all organic material.

Put the sand in flats of seedling trays, water it good and then put your clones in the sand. Keep them in indirect light and keep the sand moist.


There isn't a cheaper, easier or more effective way to clone.

You have the right idea using the rockwool macro-plugs but you are making several errors:
1. Soak plugs in 25 - 50% strength nutrient solution overnight and this is what you will use to water the clones as well (pH adust solution after soaking).
2. DO NOT SQUEEZE the macro-plugs. Doing so destroys the rockwool structure that is required to maintain the optimum air/water ratio for which rockwool is justifiably famous. When you pull them out of the nutrient solution, you can shake off a little water if you like...or not.
3. Get the Grodan Gro-Smart tray insert. That tray insert you are using DOES NOT provide optimum air circulation for rockwool. Alternately, set them directly in a 10" x 20" nursery flat. (A big advantage of the Grodan insert is that you can lift it out of the nursery flat and easily see which plants have roots. Wait for at least a dozen roots to emerge before transplanting.)
4. Cut the clone stem at a 45 degree angle and immediately insert into the macro-plug. You do not need to goop them, that only encourages rot.
5. Use a slightly ventilated humidity dome.
6. Wait 7-14 days and make sure the rockwool does not dry out entirely. Use a turkey baster to squirt the aforementioned pH adjusted nutrient solution on them as needed.
7. Some strains yellow out severely during this process and some do not. Keep mitts off until well-rooted.

NOTE: To all the people using anything other than rockwool plugs, you are missing the boat. Rockwool can be easily transplanted into anything, transplant shock is not a concern. You can't over-water it, excess water drains off. It doesn't fall apart like, say, sand. It is inorganic so it doesn't rot. The only prep required is an overnight soak to balance the pH.

stumpjumper said:

Throw your Rapid Rooters, Aero Cloners and the like in the trash.

Get some playbox sand or beach sand, any kind of sifted fine sand. It must be clean of all organic material.

Put the sand in flats of seedling trays, water it good and then put your clones in the sand. Keep them in indirect light and keep the sand moist.


There isn't a cheaper, easier or more effective way to clone.

Click to expand...

I've actually got clones to root in a shot glass full of water sitting in my window sill lol. Not something i recommend as i only had a 25% survival rate but it was cheap and easy.

fg2020 said:

You have the right idea using the rockwool macro-plugs but you are making several errors:
1. Soak plugs in 25 - 50% strength nutrient solution overnight and this is what you will use to water the clones as well (pH adust solution after soaking).
2. DO NOT SQUEEZE the macro-plugs. Doing so destroys the rockwool structure that is required to maintain the optimum air/water ratio for which rockwool is justifiably famous. When you pull them out of the nutrient solution, you can shake off a little water if you like...or not.
3. Get the Grodan Gro-Smart tray insert. That tray insert you are using DOES NOT provide optimum air circulation for rockwool. Alternately, set them directly in a 10" x 20" nursery flat. (A big advantage of the Grodan insert is that you can lift it out of the nursery flat and easily see which plants have roots. Wait for at least a dozen roots to emerge before transplanting.)
4. Cut the clone stem at a 45 degree angle and immediately insert into the macro-plug. You do not need to goop them, that only encourages rot.
5. Use a slightly ventilated humidity dome.
6. Wait 7-14 days and make sure the rockwool does not dry out entirely. Use a turkey baster to squirt the aforementioned pH adjusted nutrient solution on them as needed.
7. Some strains yellow out severely during this process and some do not. Keep mitts off until well-rooted.

NOTE: To all the people using anything other than rockwool plugs, you are missing the boat. Rockwool can be easily transplanted into anything, transplant shock is not a concern. You can't over-water it, excess water drains off. It doesn't fall apart like, say, sand. It is inorganic so it doesn't rot. The only prep required is an overnight soak to balance the pH.

Click to expand...

You had some really good points that i bolded. I still must insist that you can over-water rockwool and ph adjusting and nutrients will do nothing for your clones until they actually have roots.

Huel Perkins said:

I've actually got clones to root in a shot glass full of water sitting in my window sill lol. Not something i recommend as i only had a 25% survival rate but it was cheap and easy.



You had some really good points that i bolded. I still must insist that you can over-water rockwool and ph adjusting and nutrients will do nothing for your clones until they actually have roots.

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about rooting in a glass of water though, I'm talking about the absolute best cloning method there is. Buying all that other shit is just pissing away your money. I worked as a lead propegator and rooting cuttings is all I did, day after day, week after week...

stumpjumper said:

I'm not talking about rooting in a glass of water though, I'm talking about the absolute best cloning method there is. Buying all that other shit is just pissing away your money. I worked as a lead propegator and rooting cuttings is all I did, day after day, week after week...

Click to expand...

Rapid rooters cost a quarter each. Clonex is also releatively cheap per cut and I've found it helps quite a bit. I've tried just water, a bubble cloner, and just coco. Never tried rockwool because people say you have to dislocate your wrist shaking the excess water out of them. If you are just cloning a dozen or so cuts every 3 months, the cost is irrelevant and I can afford $0.25 per cut. The most important factors for me are reliability and convenience. I put my rapid rooters in a self-watering coco seedling tray with 1/4 strengths nutes. Nothing has beat this for me in terms of convenience and success rate.

When I put a dome on, I got worse results.

Im tellin ya... try sand.. and it doesnt fall apart if you have good roots.

stumpjumper said:

Im tellin ya... try sand.. and it doesnt fall apart if you have good roots.

Click to expand...

I am cloning about 35 à week and am running out of aerocloner room and do no wish to build another, What type of sand and what is it in?

regards,

stumpjumper said:

Throw your Rapid Rooters, Aero Cloners and the like in the trash.

Get some playbox sand or beach sand, any kind of sifted fine sand. It must be clean of all organic material.

Put the sand in flats of seedling trays, water it good and then put your clones in the sand. Keep them in indirect light and keep the sand moist.


There isn't a cheaper, easier or more effective way to clone.

Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense to me, all you need is a medium to hold moisture.
I have to take a lot of cuts each cycle so I think I'll give a few a try next time, thanks Stump!

Huel Perkins said:

You had some really good points that i bolded. I still must insist that you can over-water rockwool and ph adjusting and nutrients will do nothing for your clones until they actually have roots.

Click to expand...

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this.
Try cloning in water with a PH of 4, or higher than 8 and you will find out for yourself how important PH is.
The same goes for adding nutrients, use a mild bloom solution and your clones will stay greener and have a much better developed root system than clones in regular water.
Cuts continue to take in water and nutrients, even without roots!

I don't think the original issue could be root rot...the clones have only been in the warm water for a few days. Oh, and they don't even have roots!

Sand: Where do I get sterile sand? As far as I know, nobody carries it locally. When I transplant my sand-rooted cutting into a rockwool block on an ebb/flow setup, how do I keep the sand from falling apart and thereby inducing transplant shock? No nice way to say it, fuck sand. Perhaps it would work best for those persons still using pea gravel as a commercial grow media.

Water: Sure, you can root cuttings all day long in a glass of water. How, exactly, do you transplant multiple cuttings into rockwool blocks (or for that matter, soil) without damaging the roots and thereby inducing transplant shock? Can't be done.

pH/Nutrient: Unless you own an imaging system that can show the roots emerging at the stem BEFORE they are externally visible on the cube, then you need to pH adjust and use nutrient on your rockwool cubes for the very simple reason that you want the nutrient available IMMEDIATELY upon root formation. That speeds up the process and time is money.

Overwatering rockwool: This is possible only if you are using the wrong rockwool product for the application in question. If using a dome, as I do, then DO NOT use wrapped cubes of any type. Also, you must have sufficient air circulation around the cubes/plugs and that is where the Gro-Smart tray insert really shines. Indeed, I consider it one of the better inventions of the last hundred years, a must own for all hobbyist/small commercial growers.

I didnt read through the whole thread but usually clones take 10-14 until they are fully rooted, all I seen was you worried at 6 days when you shouldn't of been, and rapid rooters is the way to go in my opinion, they're easier to maintain moisture and what not.

Fuck sand? Don't knock it till you try it. It doesn't fall apart if you have roots holding it together.. If you're pulling your clones with less roots then that then you probably will have transplant shock no matter what.. If you transplant shit right you wouldn't have shocked plants anyways.

You can get sand at the beach, or at the hardware, playbox sand is fine...

Here's a PM I received from a member here who actually tried using sand.. I was actually surprised because I didn't think the guy liked me enough to even read something I posted lol

From Murphy

" i have invested substantial effort into cloning techniques, and this is hands down the BEST. i had everything from simple bubblers to fogponics(including EZ cloner). your way roots the most stubborn strains easily, keeping them at the perfect moisture level for EXTENDED periods.

from here on out i will refer to it as stump's way, although i must admit i don't give out many secrets anymore. let 'em learn the old fashioned way. if you feel you must be famous, feel free to quote me."


Now I'm not trying to be famous here. I'm not trying to act like a know it all either. I think there might be some scenarios when sand might not be a good idea, like if you're transplanting into hydro or something you might not want sand getting in your res, I dunno never done hydro. But if you are a soil grower, try the sand... Even if some falls off when you pull the plants, immediately water your newly transplanted clone and it will be fine.

I'm sharing this to help. Take it or leave it.

Well, you've convinced me -- I'll give sand a try. So give us a few more details. How wet should it be? How often do you water, etc?

You just keep it moist, water it down good before you put your cuttings in it and keep it moist/wet.. Any excess water will run out of it. How often you water depends on the environment it is in. Keep it moist, don't let it dry out.

somebody1701 said:

Well, you've convinced me -- I'll give sand a try. So give us a few more details. How wet should it be? How often do you water, etc?

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Please keep us informed how it goes for you.

Will do. It could be awhile because I just took my next set of cuts about a week ago. Maybe the next time I'm trimming my mother down I'll throw the cuts into some sand just to test it out.

I am 0 for MANY using rockwool. I almost think you can't use it in a dome or it absorbs every bit of water around. Using rapid rooters, I am at about 99% success.

And if after 7 days there's no roots, just wait longer.

Some root quickly, and some take as much as 14 days.

Fortheloveofgreen said:

I am 0 for MANY using rockwool. I almost think you can't use it in a dome or it absorbs every bit of water around. Using rapid rooters, I am at about 99% success.

And if after 7 days there's no roots, just wait longer.

Some root quickly, and some take as much as 14 days.

Click to expand...

I used rock wool cubes in a humidity dome with 100% success for years. Just keep the warm and moist, and have patience.

I needed to post a picture of a main cola I just snapped and bent so I figured I'd show you guys a picture I took of my then day-old clones that was already on my phone:



The two males (top left with straws) aren't looking so good right now. Everyone else looks pretty much the same as in that picture but the two males are much paler green and one's getting a little dry. I took those for backup in case the pollen I harvested doesn't work when I put it on next week.

My opinion, don't mist them or the dome inside a lot..If u have lots of moisture, ur babies won't feel eager to grow roots while they can get it from the leaves and the air. I mist slightly heavy once every 2 days and change the water [distilled] on my diy bubbler same time.Usually, in 5 days start seeing white dots all over!
Also, I don't cut the leaves...Don't like it, unless it takes up to much light space.
It just makes more sense to me... 1 out 10 or 15 doesn't make it..
Gluck