Cloning from mothers vs. cloning from vegging plants HELP...

This is one of those discussions where there really is no right or wrong way to propagate,only the way that works best for you.In close to 10 years I've never kept a mother plant,yet at least 90% of my grows are from clones.I have a system for taking two cuts from near the bottom or bottom/middle of the plant,the idea is to get healthy cuts.If you can make one cut root out of two cuts you're in the wrong business lol.Usually both of mine root but I only keep the healthiest.Here's the hassle.You have to flower the donor plants for 40 days or more before you are sure its the pheno you want.All the while you are taking care of these vegging plants and transplanting them,just to throw them away except for the jewel of the ball of course.I wish there was an easier way but I havent found it.And shit when you get rid of a clone at 30 days because the donor has no trichs,then 10 days later it looked like a snowfall fell on them....but alas its too late to threw away the copy to make room or because the donor looked at shit.I know I tend to ramble folks and for that I dont apologise,I'm a good person with a voca grande.One thing you can count on,I learned from the best on OG and icmag and love to help people bcome successful

I mainly was just trying to make sure genetics would not deteriorate as u keep cloning down the line, since it theoreticaly should not sine it is a exact copy. I think that would be the best for me since if I am going to add another area for mothers I would rather add 2 light movers or one more 600 watt light. In the past to get mothers I would take clones and grow them all the way to completion before picking my moms. I would like to add another light so I can rotate every 3 weeks but ever 4.5 will have to do for now.

legallyflying said:

Word. Plus rep for speaking the truth of the matter. Some people will clone of clones for 10 generations. They are gentically identical but genes are only half of the equation. In some ways plants are like young children. You molest them bad when they are young and they will never recover. It's not all that bad as the world
needs porn stars and strippers but I grow my own seeds so I know exactly what I'm getting.

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I don't think the comparison is good at all. A human being is not the same thing as a plant. For one thing, a plant really doesn't have a brain or memories. A plant pretty much lives in the moment. So when it recovers from stress, which is pretty darn fast with a plant nicknamed "weed", it continues on as if everything is normal. It doesn't relive memories of stress from the past. I don't think cutting branches changes the genetics of the plant in the least.

This topic is interesting. I keep one or two mothers for an easy access to lots of clones, Bonsai mothers are a good way to save a strain for years with out taking up to much space.

If you flower out a plant and don't take any clones but still want to keep the genetics, leave a couple of bottom branches on and regenerate the plant until you can get a clone or two from it.

It is really easy to save genetics, there is no reason why you should lose any strain you plan on growing again.

9867mike777 said:

I don't think the comparison is good at all. A human being is not the same thing as a plant. For one thing, a plant really doesn't have a brain or memories. A plant pretty much lives in the moment. So when it recovers from stress, which is pretty darn fast with a plant nicknamed "weed", it continues on as if everything is normal. It doesn't relive memories of stress from the past. I don't think cutting branches changes the genetics of the plant in the least.

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I have actually come across tons of sources of research confirming the opposite of this, that plant and animal biology are strikingly similar. A good place to look into this subject is the book "the secret life of plants", kind of a dry read but super informative about all sorts of research on plants that you have never heard of before. Plants in fact do have a memory, have a nervous system that acts just like that of animals, and will register emotions(read by way of a polygraph, same way as in humans.....). One of the trippiest experiments I read about was a group of plants in a room all hooked up to polygraphs to record their electromagnetic spikes. A man then walks into the room, goes to one of the plants and rips a leaf off violently. The polygraph of the ripped plant spikes like crazy along with all the other plants. Then the man leaves. A few hours later more people are sent into this room, one at a time. As each new person enters the plants have no reaction. Until the man who ripped the leaf off previously reenters the room, at which point the plants all spike the polygraph soley due to the presence of this man. Plants are smarter then we think.......

secretagent said:

I have actually come across tons of sources of research confirming the opposite of this, that plant and animal biology are strikingly similar. A good place to look into this subject is the book "the secret life of plants", kind of a dry read but super informative about all sorts of research on plants that you have never heard of before. Plants in fact do have a memory, have a nervous system that acts just like that of animals, and will register emotions(read by way of a polygraph, same way as in humans.....). One of the trippiest experiments I read about was a group of plants in a room all hooked up to polygraphs to record their electromagnetic spikes. A man then walks into the room, goes to one of the plants and rips a leaf off violently. The polygraph of the ripped plant spikes like crazy along with all the other plants. Then the man leaves. A few hours later more people are sent into this room, one at a time. As each new person enters the plants have no reaction. Until the man who ripped the leaf off previously reenters the room, at which point the plants all spike the polygraph soley due to the presence of this man. Plants are smarter then we think.......

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i would like to see that whole experiment...but it makes sense...its why we water at the same time...let the lights go on and off at the same time...plants do have memory....and just changing up times you do certain things to it can stress the plant...people could really home in on their plants and really make them happy..if we knew the entire make up of plants....guess ive got some research to do today on this subject

What is the difference between mothers and vegging plants? Mothers are just vegging plants that are trimmed back from time to time

tip top toker said:

What is the difference between mothers and vegging plants? Mothers are just vegging plants that are trimmed back from time to time

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my point exactly

if a plant is trained really well you can take a good 6-7 cuts off it around 4 weeks and still never have any canopy gaps. around 4 weeks veg i am able to take cuts from a branch of a branch of a branch. i cut the tallest ones so the lower branches will grow up more to fill in the gaps i made. i don't have the space to fuck with mother plants.

i think he means cloning from a different plant each time as opposed to taking the same clones from the same mothers.meaning..which is better....taking a clone from a newly grown vegging plant...or taking numerous clones from a mother plant....if a strain can become weak from taking multiple clones from one plant

I was manly wondering about cloning of clones of clones and as u end up further down the line do genetics weaken. But after doing research and listing to some peoples experiences. I don't think they do.

couple things ive found: Cloning in early flowering makes little difference, take a lower branch without pistols on it. if u take a mature one with buds you can get that wierd result...

secondly: a more mature plant is better (clone of a clone is best maturity)

I apply this two ways, the vast majority of my clones are lower branches from plants in flowering for less than 2 weeks, A few clones I veg for a long time and take a couple cuts 1 to 2 months in veg then let her heal and then finally flower her..two weeks later to prune the bottom for more clones as all plants get a few cuts off them 1 to 2 weeks in flower.

I have done that in the past because I had to as far as clones from flowering plants. and for the vertical grow I am trying bushier would be better so I will definitely will give it a try.

Hey guys, Has anyone mentioned the fact that if you're doing a perpetual SOG grow and only vegging for two weeks or less, there are hardly good clones to take? I let clones root for two weeks, then give them another 10 days or so of veg time. The clones are only 4-6" when they go into 12/12, but they're beginning to accelerate...I do almost 4 plants per square foot, so I'm always going for that short, even canopy.

My point is that after only ten days of vegging there aren't accepable clones to take.

I do believe that clones can be taken from vegatative plants (no mother) indefinetely without any negative affects on future generations as long as the original mother and successive vegatative plants never see less then 18 hours of light per day.

So, I also believe that taking clones from plants that have been in 12/12 for a couple of weeks is a no-no. This is what is meant by a copy-of-a-copy effect. You can get away with 3 or 4 generations of this, but if you keep taking flowering clones-of-clones, your crops will deteriorate. Taking a young plant and reverting it back to veg is extremely stressfull, and every generation it's done componds this stress.

I always take my clones from my 4TH WEEK veg plants
week before i go into flower

Its been my experience that cloning from clones eventually the strain "breaks down" I get about 1-1/2 to 2 yrs out of a strain cloning from clones (for whatever reason, i'm no botonist so I wont even try to say why this happens).. When I have a mother plant, it lasts for as long as i take good care of her..

I still like cloning from clones, and just keep some beans in reserve, saves alot in time, space and cost.

thats what i have heard reefcouple and the reason for asking. 2 years is a good amount of time, at that point some new strains are definitely in order anyway.

1 thing I do is I label the heck out of them (clones corresponding to clones) then I take the clone from the best 1 of the bunch. I let her grow for a couple months in veg so I can steal as many clones off her as possible 9try to get as many as it will take for your next batch). This way I know I will be happy with ALL clones.. (kind of a short term momma, but then I quickly bloom her as well)..

Hope that helps