COB efficiency Spreadsheets

Bonjour
@SupraSPL i believe that you said somewhere that lumen is not the better way to scale the lights,that it is the part of light that human eyes can see.Don't you!?
Isn't it umol/Par(m2{sqf,for U.S),s1,w1)for a sq/f in 1 second and in a watt.That is what a guy from another site told me
Someone know about this umol/Par m2,s1,w1!?!?
Have a great day™

littlejacob said:

Bonjour
@SupraSPL i believe that you said somewhere that lumen is not the better way to scale the lights,that it is the part of light that human eyes can see.Don't you!?
Isn't it umol/Par(m2{sqf,for U.S),s1,w1)for a sq/f in 1 second and in a watt.That is what a guy from another site told me
Someone know about this umol/Par m2,s1,w1!?!?
Have a great day™

Click to expand...

In order to have higher efficiency from the same source...you have to have more output. And lumens/watt are a form of output.

Because white lights as wells as many monos output's are not shown in mW or µmols, we have to work with lumens. A figure called the LER is what lets use unweight lumens and express it as PARwatts...which can then be converted to µmols. LER is the maximum amount of lumens a spectrum could create per 1 watt of radiant power. The LER can or will change for every different spectrum to counter for the lumen weighing system applied to the spectrum.

You can think of lm/w as a test grade...and LER being the perfect score. divide the 2 and you have a % or grade.

lm/w ÷ LER = Efficiency

Efficiency(%) x disspated watts = PARwatt output

PARwatts x conversion factor = µmol output

Bonjour
Thanks for this GG. So for the 3590 36V 3500K CD @1400mA and @700mA that is how many umol, for the dummy (froggy), who is better at English than maths...
Thanks again everyone who helped me, advice me, almost take me by the hand...i can't name all, but everybody's know who i am talking about...
Have a great day ★

littlejacob said:

Bonjour
Thanks for this GG. So for the 3590 36V 3500K CD @1400mA and @700mA that is how many umol, for the dummy (froggy), who is better at English than maths...
Thanks again everyone who helped me, advice me, almost take me by the hand...i can't name all, but everybody's know who i am talking about...
Have a great day ★

Click to expand...

3590 36V 3500K CD
@700mA should produce about 67 µmol/s @ about 2.95 µmol/J.
@1400mA 126 µmol/s @ 2.58 µmol/J

Bonjour
Thanks alesh! (You are in the list...)
Have a great day ★

Hi nice people,
thanks for this thread! Does already exists a spreadsheet for these bins?

CXB3590 36V 5000K CB
CXB3590 36V 4000K CD

Is there a efficiency chart like the above one for cxb3590, for current range from .2 amps to 1.8 amp, my driver runs at about .56 amps and would like to know what efficiency I am getting. Cree website tool does not show anything below .7 amps. Thank you very much for your time and help.

CXB3590 3000K CB


CXB3070 CXB3590 3500K


CXA3590 5000K DB (rare)


CXB3590 5000K CD and DB


CXB3590 5000K DD (not available yet)

I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking is there is a efficiency chart for CXB3590 where it has the amperage range from .2 amps to 1.8 amps like the picture I added which is for CXA3590.

Unfortunately Cree decided to cut their charts short in the CXB PDF. The lowest data they provide is running the COBs at 50W. So the 23W data is extrapolated the best I could and I did not try to go lower like I did with CXA3590.

It should be possible for us to test current/temp droop ourselves and now that I have a somewhat more accurate PAR meter I might give it a shot.

That would be great Supra, please do !

Numbers like 75% efficiency are so crazy, I still have trouble beleiving them (!) I wonder if new bins will come around at a slower pace, they should eventually, right ?

Can I ask, what are the details to the story of how CREE gave or confirmed the LER numbers ?

Cheers

SupraSPL said:

Unfortunately Cree decided to cut their charts short in the CXB PDF. The lowest data they provide is running the COBs at 50W. So the 23W data is extrapolated the best I could and I did not try to go lower like I did with CXA3590.

It should be possible for us to test current/temp droop ourselves and now that I have a somewhat more accurate PAR meter I might give it a shot.

Click to expand...

Sure, I asked CREE for the LER of 2700K and 3000K 80 CRi. They said they had LER data for the CXA2540, 321 for the 2700K and 325 for the 3000K. It was very close to the LER Mr Flux and SDS had extracted at the time so I was convinced. That said, it will vary a bit from COB to COB and from batch to batch.

I agree, 75% for a white LED is hard to swallow and it may be over optimistic depending on the current droop characteristics of the CXB series. That implies the blue die used would have been even higher efficiency at the same current, 85%? That said, this should be possible to test with a good degree of precision and confidence. I have done some very basic current droop tests and I did see rising lux/W numbers as I decreased current to very low levels, but that was on the CXA series.

Could someone do an efficiency spreadsheet for the Luxeon COB? Are they even close to Vero's?

The 1211 in 5700k might be a great veg COB.

Looks like the 1211 5000K is about 45% efficient at test current (1.2A or 42W), similar in price to Vero29. Vero 29 5K @ 50W is ~45% efficient but slightly cheaper/PAR W.

So that means the 5700K should be even more efficient.

The 5700K shows a lower lumen/W due to a lower LER. It may be slightly more efficient but possibly less effective. The theory I have been keeping in mind, we should use as little blue as we can without sacrificing bud quality or COB efficiency. The higher color temps could have excess blue photons for a handful of reasons.

-Blue photons require more more energy to create and they drive photosynthesis less efficiently than the longer wavelengths.

-White LEDs have a blue spike around 450nm and the higher color temps have an even higher spike. It seems to be beneficial to spread the power across many wavelengths as sunlight does so we may want to avoid tall spikes, especially in the blue range.

-Excess blue photons might even some forms of stress to the plant, damaging some compounds (including cannabinoids if it were used in late flowering) and making the plant think it is being bombarded by high energy photons UVA and UVB. Dentists use 450nm blue to bleach stains out of teeth and it works very well on laundry, carpeting etc.

I am not suggesting that 5700K won't work, just the reasoning why we should only use as much blue as is necessary. KNNA recommended 25-30% for vegging, 15-20% for flowering. SDS recommends even less if I recall.

Hi here ,

got couple of questions , some one can maybe enlighten me

This data are very great , but something i dont know ,
in term of Yield , what is better ?
Now i'm running on 3 vero 2 29 , 4000k ; 2.1A@38V , the typical values so ; 80W each.

- First : the fact ive got 3 light source , even if they are near each others , in physics terms , it makes 3x80W = 240W or 3 led 80W each .
I mean the light is a wave too so , like decilbel , and the didnt add themself for more power .
Mean its like 2 110hp car , dont make 220hp single car ,
here its 2x10.000 lumens = 20.000 lumens or not

What better for big yield , more lumens or more light efficiency ?

-Second : What happened with different source with different wavelength this time , with led's different power
Mean a cob with mono color led really near from the cob .

In fact , i would like to know if some can explain the more easier possible ,

How does the light from different source , at different power and wavelength on the plant.

How the leaf's plant , interpret the signal when this one is mixed due to an intersection where the light of the 2 source emitted are crossed .

Ps : something about rainbow .
I think , this one we can see the sun's spectrum ,

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-en-ciel#/media/File:WhereRainbowRises.jpg

AS we can see on the picture , the width is "physically" measurable huh ?
To say like this , the width should be between 60-80m (196-262 feet)
And to the left side , we can the reb band , to the right the violet .

What happened , if we are to the left ( on the photo huh ), mean we receive more red than someone who will be be on the right ?

Or we cant see it on the photo , but does , just at left of the red band , their is another rainbow with violet band , like if we stuck rainbow at the infinity ??

dimebagor said:

Hi here ,

got couple of questions , some one can maybe enlighten me

This data are very great , but something i dont know ,
in term of Yield , what is better ?
Now i'm running on 3 vero 2 29 , 4000k ; 2.1A@38V , the typical values so ; 80W each.

- First : the fact ive got 3 light source , even if they are near each others , in physics terms , it makes 3x80W = 240W or 3 led 80W each .
I mean the light is a wave too so , like decilbel , and the didnt add themself for more power .
Mean its like 2 110hp car , dont make 220hp single car ,
here its 2x10.000 lumens = 20.000 lumens or not

What better for big yield , more lumens or more light efficiency ?

-Second : What happened with different source with different wavelength this time , with led's different power
Mean a cob with mono color led really near from the cob .

In fact , i would like to know if some can explain the more easier possible ,

How does the light from different source , at different power and wavelength on the plant.

How the leaf's plant , interpret the signal when this one is mixed due to an intersection where the light of the 2 source emitted are crossed .

Ps : something about rainbow .
I think , this one we can see the sun's spectrum ,

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-en-ciel#/media/File:WhereRainbowRises.jpg

AS we can see on the picture , the width is "physically" measurable huh ?
To say like this , the width should be between 60-80m (196-262 feet)
And to the left side , we can the reb band , to the right the violet .

What happened , if we are to the left ( on the photo huh ), mean we receive more red than someone who will be be on the right ?

Or we cant see it on the photo , but does , just at left of the red band , their is another rainbow with violet band , like if we stuck rainbow at the infinity ??

Click to expand...

Lumens are a bad way to think when it comes to photosynthesis as lumens are the total
amount of visible light emitted by a source (In our case COB led) the higher the efficiency of a given COB the more Photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) emitted from said source.
Photosynthetically active radiation designates the spectral range (wave band) of solar radiation from 400 to 700 nanometers that photosynthetic organisms are able to use in the process of photosynthesis. Not exactly sure what your asking in question 2 but if you asking why everyone is using white led's and not mono (red, green etc) the simple answer is the white LED source is putting off a spectrum of light that covers all these spectrum's along with other not touched when using mono's.

CanadianONE said:

Lumens are a bad way to think when it comes to photosynthesis as lumens are the total
amount of visible light emitted by a source (In our case COB led) the higher the efficiency of a given COB the more Photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) emitted from said source.
Photosynthetically active radiation designates the spectral range (wave band) of solar radiation from 400 to 700 nanometers that photosynthetic organisms are able to use in the process of photosynthesis. Not exactly sure what your asking in question 2 but if you asking why everyone is using white led's and not mono (red, green etc) the simple answer is the white LED source is putting off a spectrum of light that covers all these spectrum's along with other not touched when using mono's.

Click to expand...

ok , so you mean , better is to run an cxb3590 for example , at 700ma , than at 1.2A which give more lumens but less PAR , for a bigger yield always ?

The second question is about the behavior of light when mix cob with monocolor led , like this panel : http://www.lcdph.fr/details-systeme+declairage+horticole+led+spectra+module+x85-76.html

does the wavelength of the blue mono color ( and others) the mixed with the cob spectrum ?
How it goes ? they add their intensity ? the color which is mixed at the crossed point : blue led's crossed yellow wave cobs so for the leaf its green wave she received ?? )
And in what circumstance the will add , cuz the wave cbos are more power than mono color huh ?