COB underusage

EverDreamer · Jul 11, 2016

Hello friends,

I am starting my second grow (the first one, a lame 287w cfl setup was not harvested).

I am considering Cree CXB3590 for this operation, but I am very confused. I would love if you could help me to clarify somethings:

My grow space measures about 80cm x 60cm x 180 x cm.

I see everybody that is using COBs operating them at 50% power, for efficiency reasons, i would love to do the same but here is why i cant:

I live in a terribly bureaucratic country where I dont have local suppliers of electronics and that will charge me 78% in taxes for importing anything(applied on product value + shipping costs($45)), almost tripling my cost per COB. making anthing but CFL or HPS/MH very expensive.

Purchasing 4xCXB3590 to run them @1400ma totally draining about 200W, is out of my budget.

So, I was thinking about purchasing 2 of them and a generic chinese 200/250w LED driver. and run them at 3000ma maybe, 2400ma, I am thinking about about totalling at least 150w with both of them, i would not really mind having to activelly cool the sistem (pc fans).

I should add that electricity is cheap here (less then $0.2/kW.

Thank you for your time, i hope you understand what i wrote, I am not a native english speaker in a hurry to disconnect! hahahah

PSUAGRO. · Jul 11, 2016

At those electrical rates and import fees I would stick with HID.......not worth it grower....

Good luck

EverDreamer · Jul 11, 2016

PSUAGRO. said:
At those electrical rates and import fees I would stick with HID.......not worth it grower....

Good luck

Thank you PSUAGRO, let me use your wisdom a little more, the problem with HID here is that ambient temperature where I live is about 28/30c pretty much the whole year so, I would need an AC unit to go HID.

I could risk importing some COBs, kind of tax evading, $50 purchase may(often) pass trough customs without taxes and i've found some CXB3590 @ $52 on aliexpress, if I bought them separately,I may get two, tax free after about 40 days...

So, as long as I am able too keep the cobs below 85C and that i dont mind that much about spending a couple more Watts.

How would you go? CFL? 2xCXB3590@100/75w? Generic red/blue COBS? Some chinese low power led panels?

Thank you again!

sixstring2112 · Jul 11, 2016

well dont run them at 3000ma without alot of cooling or they wont last very long lol. most of us run them between 1050 and 2100ma . if you can pull it off @3000ma those babies will be bright as hell,you wont need the china led panel if ya just used like 3 or 4 cobs,3590 in that space

EverDreamer · Jul 11, 2016

sixstring2112 said:
well dont run them at 3000ma without alot of cooling or they wont last very long lol. most of us run them between 1050 and 2100ma . if you can pull it off @3000ma those babies will be bright as hell,you wont need the china led panel if ya just used like 3 or 4 cobs,3590 in that space

I am thinking about 3 or 2 CXB3590s @2400ma on a single 17cmX55cm aluminium radiator covered with as much PC fans possible hahaha

JorgeGonzales · Jul 11, 2016

EverDreamer said:
Thank you PSUAGRO, let me use your wisdom a little more, the problem with HID here is that ambient temperature where I live is about 28/30c pretty much the whole year so, I would need an AC unit to go HID.

I could risk importing some COBs, kind of tax evading, $50 purchase may(often) pass trough customs without taxes and i've found some CXB3590 @ $52 on aliexpress, if I bought them separately,I may get two, tax free after about 40 days...

So, as long as I am able too keep the cobs below 85C and that i dont mind that much about spending a couple more Watts.

How would you go? CFL? 2xCXB3590@100/75w? Generic red/blue COBS? Some chinese low power led panels?

Thank you again!

Those extra watts you are spending are heat.

Forget Cree, talk to @robincnn and buy a couple of these, https://northerngrowlights.com/collections/all/products/citizen-clu058-cob

I can't speak for robin, but I see no reason to declare a value greater than $50 for two cobs.

If two make it through, buy a couple more

.

Try to find Mechatronix IceLED coolers, these: http://www.led-heatsink.com/upload/files/IceLED_Xtra_Ultra_Modular_Active_Star_LED_Cooler_ø99mm.pdf

They are $15 USD, good for an easy 150W each, do 2x100W and you have a great efficient light for very cheap. Nobody ever listens to me when I recommend this combo, but what the hell.

Growdict · Jul 11, 2016

i still think you are better off with HID and AC

EverDreamer · Jul 11, 2016

JorgeGonzales said:
Those extra watts you are spending are heat.

Forget Cree, talk to @robincnn and buy a couple of these, https://northerngrowlights.com/collections/all/products/citizen-clu058-cob

I can't speak for robin, but I see no reason to declare a value greater than $50 for two cobs.

If two make it through, buy a couple more .

Try to find Mechatronix IceLED coolers, these: http://www.led-heatsink.com/upload/files/IceLED_Xtra_Ultra_Modular_Active_Star_LED_Cooler_ø99mm.pdf

They are $15 USD, good for an easy 150W each, do 2x100W and you have a great efficient light for very cheap. Nobody ever listens to me when I recommend this combo, but what the hell.

Do you know Citizen's CLU731? they go for 21usd @digikey with 131lm/W and I like the spectrum but i can only find them at digikey/Arrow and all their shipping methods costs two times more than the COB it self.....

EverDreamer · Jul 11, 2016

Growdict said:
I still think you are better off with HID and AC

Why do you say so?
I would spend about $350 on an AC + about $57/month on electricity to run the AC...and for such a small grow where I could only grow 2 to 4 plants...I think it would hardly payoff...

JorgeGonzales · Jul 11, 2016

EverDreamer said:
Do you know Citizen's CLU731? they go for 21usd @digikey with 131lm/W and I like the spectrum but i can only find them at digikey/Arrow and all their shipping methods costs two times more than the COB it self.....

Yeah they are cheap for a reason. Just buy from somebody here, work with them on shipping. CLU058 is a solid choice you can run at 100W and piss on HID while doing it.

Get a couple, and a 2100ma driver, call it a day. HLG-240H-C2100B is a great choice.

DrBlaze · Jul 11, 2016

EverDreamer said:
Why do you say so?
I would spend about $350 on an AC + about $57/month on electricity to run the AC...and for such a small grow where I could only grow 2 to 4 plants...I think it would hardly payoff...

Cheap led's aren't going to be any more efficient than good quality HID (like ceramic metal halide), and cmh spectrum is really nice. Your grow area is only like 5 square feet (.48 square m) and you could probably use one of the newer philips 210w cmh bulbs, which you may even be able to get locally at an electrical supplier, along with the electronic philips advance ballast for it.

This light probably isn't going to create any more heat than either running inefficient chinese cobs or even running higher quality cobs at higher wattages. You should be able to get away with using a decent fan constantly exhausting the hot air from up top.

Its not that I think cobs are a bad idea, I love them and will be making the switch (from cmh/hps) sometime in the future. But the way you're considering using them they probably aren't the best choice (especially if you can get cmh locally and avoid those huge shipping costs)

captainmorgan · Jul 11, 2016

You may want to look at currency exchange rates to find a Country to buy from also,it can be a added bonus.

EverDreamer · Jul 11, 2016

DrBlaze said:
Cheap led's aren't going to be any more efficient than good quality HID (like ceramic metal halide), and cmh spectrum is really nice. Your grow area is only like 5 square feet (.48 square m) and you could probably use one of the newer philips 210w cmh bulbs, which you may even be able to get locally at an electrical supplier, along with the electronic philips advance ballast for it.

This light probably isn't going to create any more heat than either running inefficient chinese cobs or even running higher quality cobs at higher wattages. You should be able to get away with using a decent fan constantly exhausting the hot air from up top.

Its not that I think cobs are a bad idea, I love them and will be making the switch (from cmh/hps) sometime in the future. But the way you're considering using them they probably aren't the best choice (especially if you can get cmh locally and avoid those huge shipping costs)

Do you have any specífic model that I can take a look at? I know very little about MH, I dont even knew cerâmic ones existed...

JorgeGonzales · Jul 11, 2016

DrBlaze said:
Cheap led's aren't going to be any more efficient than good quality HID (like ceramic metal halide), and cmh spectrum is really nice. Your grow area is only like 5 square feet (.48 square m) and you could probably use one of the newer philips 210w cmh bulbs, which you may even be able to get locally at an electrical supplier, along with the electronic philips advance ballast for it.

This light probably isn't going to create any more heat than either running inefficient chinese cobs or even running higher quality cobs at higher wattages. You should be able to get away with using a decent fan constantly exhausting the hot air from up top.

Its not that I think cobs are a bad idea, I love them and will be making the switch (from cmh/hps) sometime in the future. But the way you're considering using them they probably aren't the best choice (especially if you can get cmh locally and avoid those huge shipping costs)

Well...the larger Citizen cob I recommended appears to be performing pretty well at 80W+, and at $40 a piece, active cooled, you could easily build a 220W lamp for under $250 USD with the driver I mentioned. This new generation of cobs is going to really even out the upfront cost vs HID for DIYers I think.

EverDreamer · Jul 11, 2016

captainmorgan said:
You may want to look at currency exchange rates to find a Country to buy from also,it can be a added bonus.

Aye, capitain! My country has some commercial agreements with another South American countries that i May take advantage of...good idea!

PSUAGRO. · Jul 11, 2016

EverDreamer said:
Thank you PSUAGRO, let me use your wisdom a little more, the problem with HID here is that ambient temperature where I live is about 28/30c pretty much the whole year so, I would need an AC unit to go HID.

I could risk importing some COBs, kind of tax evading, $50 purchase may(often) pass trough customs without taxes and i've found some CXB3590 @ $52 on aliexpress, if I bought them separately,I may get two, tax free after about 40 days...

So, as long as I am able too keep the cobs below 85C and that i dont mind that much about spending a couple more Watts.

How would you go? CFL? 2xCXB3590@100/75w? Generic red/blue COBS? Some chinese low power led panels?

Thank you again!

Dude, adding wattage will raise temps no matter the tech..........setup the grow in the coldest part of the house/apt/condo/etc if possible and buy a decent 6 inch exhaust fan, run remote ballast 315w cmh(335-348w actual)==1.96ppf/w and yearly $60 bulb change at earliest with 12/12. ROI with your electrical rates and current cob efficiencies/pricing/fees isn't worth it atm......in a couple of years ? probably

DrBlaze · Jul 11, 2016

JorgeGonzales said:
Well...the larger Citizen cob I recommended appears to be performing pretty well at 80W+, and at $40 a piece, active cooled, you could easily build a 220W lamp for under $250 USD with the driver I mentioned. This new generation of cobs is going to really even out the upfront cost vs HID for DIYers I think.

Totally agree, just with his situation it sounds like he'll be paying double or triple what he should. I was just thinking that if he could get a cmh setup locally he'd save a bundle. Also at such low power rates, the cobs will take min 4x longer to pay for themselves. And double that with the huge shipping he's paying, so there prob will be no breakeven point really.

EverDreamer said:
Do you have any specífic model that I can take a look at? I know very little about MH, I dont even knew cerâmic ones existed...

@EverDreamer : I was talking about either of these:

http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/mastercolor-cdm-elite-mw-mogul-base/928601175306_EU/product

or

http://www.lighting.philips.ca/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/mastercolor-cdm-t-elite-med-wattage/928601167202_NA/product

Its basically the same light, but with the older mogul base which you would have an easier time finding reflectors and sockets for, or the newer technology t12 bulbs which are slightly better but you may have a hard time finding sockets/socket adapters for. It should be noted that unlike the older cmh bulbs these use newer electronic low frequency square-wave ballasts.

If you can't find these newer cmh bulbs locally, then the next best thing would be the last generation philips Allstarts:

http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/energy-advantage-cdm-lamps-with-allstart-technology/928601174201_NA/product

or

http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/energy-advantage-cdm-lamps-with-allstart-technology/928601166003_NA/product

One is 205w the other is 260w. These use pulse start metal halide magnetic ballasts which you should have no problem finding locally.

While I agree with what PSUAGRO. says above, I think the 315w cmh might be too much for that space.

EverDreamer · Jul 11, 2016

DrBlaze said:
Totally agree, just with his situation it sounds like he'll be paying double or triple what he should. I was just thinking that if he could get a cmh setup locally he'd save a bundle. Also at such low power rates, the cobs will take min 4x longer to pay for themselves. And double that with the huge shipping he's paying, so there prob will be no breakeven point really.

@EverDreamer : I was talking about either of these:

http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/mastercolor-cdm-elite-mw-mogul-base/928601175306_EU/product

or

http://www.lighting.philips.ca/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/mastercolor-cdm-t-elite-med-wattage/928601167202_NA/product

Its basically the same light, but with the older mogul base which you would have an easier time finding reflectors and sockets for, or the newer technology t12 bulbs which are slightly better but you may have a hard time finding sockets/socket adapters for. It should be noted that unlike the older cmh bulbs these use newer electronic low frequency square-wave ballasts.

If you can't find these newer cmh bulbs locally, then the next best thing would be the last generation philips Allstarts:

http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/energy-advantage-cdm-lamps-with-allstart-technology/928601174201_NA/product

or

http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/energy-advantage-cdm-lamps-with-allstart-technology/928601166003_NA/product

One is 205w the other is 260w. These use pulse start metal halide magnetic ballasts which you should have no problem finding locally.

While I agree with what PSUAGRO. says above, I think the 315w cmh might be too much for that space.

Brasil sucks SO HARD!

I've searched online for the bulbs you suggested and only found them indirectly imported for about $230 each!

I will take a look at a big hardware store we have here in my city tomorrow, maybe some lightning store (if there is one) and update you with what i've found!

Love you guys, you are so helpful!

Thanks!

DrBlaze · Jul 11, 2016

EverDreamer said:
Brasil sucks SO HARD!

I've searched online for the bulbs you suggested and only found them indirectly imported for about $230 each!

I will take a look at a big hardware store we have here in my city tomorrow, maybe some lightning store (if there is one) and update you with what i've found!

Love you guys, you are so helpful!

Thanks!

Try to find an electrical supplier, as in, a store where electricians go to shop. These should be available.

COB underusage

EverDreamer

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PSUAGRO.

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EverDreamer

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sixstring2112

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EverDreamer

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JorgeGonzales

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Growdict

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EverDreamer

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EverDreamer

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JorgeGonzales

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DrBlaze

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captainmorgan

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EverDreamer

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JorgeGonzales

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EverDreamer

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PSUAGRO.

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DrBlaze

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EverDreamer

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DrBlaze

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