Coco Growers Unite!

ZEN MASTER

Well-Known Member
Coco will work good for cuttings when compared to soil... the natural trichoderma helps protect from disease which is nice and i will admit that using the same medium is the most ideal situation so i will agree with zen on those points. Any cup is fine as long as it doesnt let light through the walls... I dont have a problem with using cups... It was the cloning in plain water that doesn't ever get changed out that i was frowning upon as a slow outdated method, but that's just my 2 cents.

I personally still prefer rockwool... it is still hydro so there isnt a huge shock when transplanted but i admit it would be less stress if it were coco to coco instead but i guess i havent noticed anything big enough to concern me. I just like the convenience of the small rockwool cubes... they are easy and quick to use and they dont make any mess at all but my main reason for using them is i can fit 300 clones in the same area i could fit only 30 four inch pots or keg cups ect., so the room it saves is a huge benefit for me.
Dam Jberry you got that much going on? thats awesome, i wish i had the space to get something like that going, or even half that. what strain are you working with? right now i got that blue venom still going, and i also have my northern lights. bout to discontinue the blue venom though. i really like it, but the NL brings a little more weight to the table. and its pretty doggone good too. i germed a power kush seed, and im going to see what thats like. i heard good things though.
hey i got a question. when i germ my seeds i use a solution of peroxide and water(1 part peroxide, 2 parts water) in a small container. my question is, would the rhiztonic be good for starting seeds with that method, minus the peroxide of course? if so what ratio of water to rhizo? just curious because i know its good for building a solid root system, but would it be good for starting a good system from seed or would it be too much. thanks.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-
 

chronic coinoisseur

Active Member
Right so I've been reading about coco a lot and have some questions for anyone willing to answer.

Would it be possible to have pots or some sort of a container with coco as a medium be fed and watered through flooding the tray there in with nutrient solution, letting them absorb it, and then draining the excess?

How big of a container would be able to sustain growth throughout veg and flowering?

I know perlite is commonly mixed with coir, what about worm castings or vermiculite?

Would any of those amendments help reduce the need to water them multiple times per day? and what pros and cons would come from mixing in any of those 3 amendments?

Finally I have general organics grow, bloom, and camg+ right now, I planned on using these as well as molasses and introducing mycorrhizae and beneficial bacteria, is this a proper nute regiment? On a side note when introducing mycorrhizae and other microorganisms and bacteria would you recommend mixing with the nutrient solution or mixing the granular spores etc directly in with the coir mixture?

I know thats a lot of questions but ive read countless threads on coco and those are the questions ive come up with. +rep to any helpful answers. Thanks
 

vdubb808

Active Member
When should I start adding nutes to my seedlings that I put into coco plugs and will grow thoughout w/ coco medium ? One week or sooner ? Or longer ?
 

robbzilla

Well-Known Member
Hey guys I grow in soil right now but I am thinking of switching to coco for my next grow.

Two questions: 1. Will this coco work ok? http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgh/R-202020506/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
I don't really have a place around here to buy premium coco or anything and I don't want to pay shipping and handling....

2. Would I need to mix some vermiculite or perilite in with that coco to make it drain better?

Any other help would be much appreciated! Thanks!
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
I would say 2 weeks...

By the way, I see you live in Hawaii and I was curious what the hydro store scene is like over there? Do you have hydro stores there that carry everything you would want?

When should I start adding nutes to my seedlings that I put into coco plugs and will grow thoughout w/ coco medium ? One week or sooner ? Or longer ?
 

vdubb808

Active Member
I would say 2 weeks...

By the way, I see you live in Hawaii and I was curious what the hydro store scene is like over there? Do you have hydro stores there that carry everything you would want?
Thanks for the advice on when to give nutes.

About the Hydro store scene...... Lately there has been a few stores popping up. Some are well stocked and some are small that basically resale the well branded nutes. Once upon a time there was only one store on the island. Which wasn't that big and had a high mark-up compared to the internet suppliers.

The place I frequent looks like they have a lot of shit, and not just a small retail store which most are. I also think their prices are decent and not inflated to high. I know that every business has to mark-up to ensure their survival so i don't mind paying a little extra to support their survival & prosperity. The most valuable thing I get from the place I frequent is good advice and support from guys who grow MJ and not afraid to show and tell. They're not just a little retail store, it's an operation. They have their normal retail stuff when you walk in the door, but then they'll take you in the back areas where you will see that it's a little operation.

Anyways, the Hydro store I go to (Green Hands of Aloha) has everything I could need now and will probably have what i need in the future when I want to try new things/products. They even have free classes twice a month. Most of the guys in the class grow MJ, so there is even a little support network. It helps.
 

ZEN MASTER

Well-Known Member
Hey guys I grow in soil right now but I am thinking of switching to coco for my next grow.

Two questions: 1. Will this coco work ok? http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgh/R-202020506/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
I don't really have a place around here to buy premium coco or anything and I don't want to pay shipping and handling....

2. Would I need to mix some vermiculite or perilite in with that coco to make it drain better?

Any other help would be much appreciated! Thanks!

to your first question. just make sure its buffered. if its not find out how to get ahold of a buffering solution. cause if you dont you may not have the best results, for real. ask the person at the store if it is. if they dont know go to the web site on the bag and find out. if it needs to be buffered they may be able to suggest a product. but "FIND OUT FIRST" trust me.

second. NO, NO, NO,.... imo. coco is a form of hydro, that you can use like dirt, yes. but it is neither one outright. it seems to me that people switching from hydro to coco want to apply all of their hydro techniques(numerous nute combinations of all differenet types) to the coco. and the soil guys,i love you guys cause i started as a soil guy, but luckily only for about seven months and then someone showed me the light, but that was three years ago. but anyway the soil guys want to add all of this stuff to help it drain better. NO, NO, NO.

hydro guys, what you did with your rez based system doesnt apply at all to using coco in a drian to waste fashion(my method of choice), but it does partially with the slabs, but only in your feeding "technique". but in both instances the nutes must be "COCO SPECIFIC". a lot of people get away with alot, but in my opinion, for the best results make sure you are using stuff designed for the coco, and stick with it. if you want to tweek you feeding, just make sure that whatever new additive you add to your coco is for coco.

soil guys.im not saying what you cant do, ok. im just saying what you shouldnt do. IN MY OPINION, only because alot of it ive tried. not all, but a few different methods. first off coco can absorb and hold many many times its own weight. second i think it is unmatched in its abilty to drain exactly what it needs to drain, and hold on to exactly what it needs to hold. so you dont need to add anything to "HELP" it drain better.and dont forget adding all that stuff "could" throw the ph off, cause coco has a neutral ph. but heres what happens when you add stuff to coco that you would add to dirt to make it drain better. the first time you water your pot, as the nutes are making their way down to the bottom of the pot to eventually give you a good runoff, the coco is settling. and all those nice little spaces that your perilite or whatever "had" created, well they heve just been collasped upon. now instead of your roots being able to roam freely through the settlted coco, like it was designed for them to do, they now have to work their way through and around in this compressed mass of coco and rock. because the weight from the perilite, vermiculite, etc.. has just weighed and compressed the coco tighter and heavier. now your plant is using more energy just to search for nutes, affecting yeild, possibly. because as the roots absorb the nutes, and the coco alone gets drier and it loosens alowing the roots to move about EASY. but its not so easy when you have, depending on your pot size, anywhere between a half of a pound to two pounds of "ROCKs" sitting on and around your precious roots. not good. so guys if you are going to use your coco in a pot for drain to waste. the only thing you need to put in your pot is coco, and coco specific nutes. remember this is only in my own experiences, not saying what can and cant be done, just my experiences. hope that helps. sorry i went on quite a spill there didnt i, thats cause i love soil guys. but if theres anything else i cant help you with feel free to ask.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-
 

robbzilla

Well-Known Member
to your first question. just make sure its buffered. if its not find out how to get ahold of a buffering solution. cause if you dont you may not have the best results, for real. ask the person at the store if it is. if they dont know go to the web site on the bag and find out. if it needs to be buffered they may be able to suggest a product. but "FIND OUT FIRST" trust me.

second. NO, NO, NO,.... imo. coco is a form of hydro, that you can use like dirt, yes. but it is neither one outright. it seems to me that people switching from hydro to coco want to apply all of their hydro techniques(numerous nute combinations of all differenet types) to the coco. and the soil guys,i love you guys cause i started as a soil guy, but luckily only for about seven months and then someone showed me the light, but that was three years ago. but anyway the soil guys want to add all of this stuff to help it drain better. NO, NO, NO.

hydro guys, what you did with your rez based system doesnt apply at all to using coco in a drian to waste fashion(my method of choice), but it does partially with the slabs, but only in your feeding "technique". but in both instances the nutes must be "COCO SPECIFIC". a lot of people get away with alot, but in my opinion, for the best results make sure you are using stuff designed for the coco, and stick with it. if you want to tweek you feeding, just make sure that whatever new additive you add to your coco is for coco.

soil guys.im not saying what you cant do, ok. im just saying what you shouldnt do. IN MY OPINION, only because alot of it ive tried. not all, but a few different methods. first off coco can absorb and hold many many times its own weight. second i think it is unmatched in its abilty to drain exactly what it needs to drain, and hold on to exactly what it needs to hold. so you dont need to add anything to "HELP" it drain better.and dont forget adding all that stuff "could" throw the ph off, cause coco has a neutral ph. but heres what happens when you add stuff to coco that you would add to dirt to make it drain better. the first time you water your pot, as the nutes are making their way down to the bottom of the pot to eventually give you a good runoff, the coco is settling. and all those nice little spaces that your perilite or whatever "had" created, well they heve just been collasped upon. now instead of your roots being able to roam freely through the settlted coco, like it was designed for them to do, they now have to work their way through and around in this compressed mass of coco and rock. because the weight from the perilite, vermiculite, etc.. has just weighed and compressed the coco tighter and heavier. now your plant is using more energy just to search for nutes, affecting yeild, possibly. because as the roots absorb the nutes, and the coco alone gets drier and it loosens alowing the roots to move about EASY. but its not so easy when you have, depending on your pot size, anywhere between a half of a pound to two pounds of "ROCKs" sitting on and around your precious roots. not good. so guys if you are going to use your coco in a pot for drain to waste. the only thing you need to put in your pot is coco, and coco specific nutes. remember this is only in my own experiences, not saying what can and cant be done, just my experiences. hope that helps. sorry i went on quite a spill there didnt i, thats cause i love soil guys. but if theres anything else i cant help you with feel free to ask.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-
I appreciate the detailed response. I am trying to learn everything I can about coco before my next grow to see if I really want to switch over. The part about the coco spec nutes really bothers me only because I have a bit a money already put into my nutes and I wouldn't want to just dump those to the side ya kno?
Can you give me some examples of coco spec nutes?
The other thing is I don't understand when you say "make sure its buffered"....what excatly does that mean? You mean buffered in sense of PH or what? Sorry just a little confused on what that means.
I'm a soil guy by the way, idk if I mentioned that in the above post.
 

vdubb808

Active Member
Zen Master, I would also like to know about coco specific nutes, since I haven't spent a whole lot of money on my nutes yet. I did some stuff but only spent 20 on it and haven't started using it yet.
 

ZEN MASTER

Well-Known Member
Zen Master, I would also like to know about coco specific nutes, since I haven't spent a whole lot of money on my nutes yet. I did some stuff but only spent 20 on it and haven't started using it yet.


I appreciate the detailed response. I am trying to learn everything I can about coco before my next grow to see if I really want to switch over. The part about the coco spec nutes really bothers me only because I have a bit a money already put into my nutes and I wouldn't want to just dump those to the side ya kno?
Can you give me some examples of coco spec nutes?
The other thing is I don't understand when you say "make sure its buffered"....what excatly does that mean? You mean buffered in sense of PH or what? Sorry just a little confused on what that means.
I'm a soil guy by the way, idk if I mentioned that in the above post.

most of the companies that manufacter coco also provide a line of nutes that go with it. for ex. Canna, b'cuzz, etc. but there are also companies that make nutrients for all mediums like advanced nutrients, and house and garden. but when i say coco specific i mean that "it was made to be use to feed plants in coco, nothing else" that kind of falls in line with the buffering. ok, real quick, buffering is basically cleaning or prepping the coco so the ph is neutral. more than likely if its the loose fine coco its buffered, still ask though. but if its in the brick form where you have to add water to expand it, i'd definitely get some buffering info for it. cause in my experience its either gonna have them underdeveloped, or it gonna burn the fuck out of them. google Canna"s site and it explains how they do it. but back to coco specific nutes. see the coco holds nutes different than dirt, the coco specific nutes are made in a way that the NPK in them actually bonds to the coco fiber. small note, never ever use straight water with coco. reason being is straight water and most(not all)non-coco nutes have no way of bonding whatever kind of NPK it contains, in addition it washes off any NPK that has bonded to the coco fiber. so you are literally washing your nutes down the drain, and crippling your plants in the process. as far as the nutes you have, call the companies that made them, then ask your hydro guy, then go online and see if you can find anyone that has any kind of success stories, horror stories, or whatever kind of experiences with the nutes that you have. i know its a bitch to let go of those nutes but if you gonna switch, you gotta do what you gotta do.

btw, isee you have a blue venom grow. if you got some time to burn check out my journal i did a NL, and BLUE VENOM grow in coco. its kinda geared to the grower that likes or has to count pennies.trust me i do use otherCanna additives sometimes. but this grow was done for the guy or girl on a shoe string budget who wants some good to exellent quality smoke. most soil guys or girls are like that. thats why we chose soil over the big hydro units, you know. but i noticed you stated your money is kinda funny right now, well you'll be suprised what can you do, and how many runs you can get with just about $75-$85, no more than $100. thats for the medium(50lL of coco), the A-B base nutes, and a good bloom booster, and check out the end, i have somewhat of a FYI on cheap bulbs vs. expensive bulbs. i think you'll like it though. but remember this, everything that i say is what worked for me. nothing is LAW, its just my experiences and techniques. everyone has their own way of doing things and i respect that. in other words whatever you get out of my journal is what you get and how ever you tweek, which you will, it is up to you. or you just might think i'm full of sh_t.
but anywho i hope that helps. be easy.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
Dam Jberry you got that much going on? thats awesome, i wish i had the space to get something like that going, or even half that. what strain are you working with? right now i got that blue venom still going, and i also have my northern lights. bout to discontinue the blue venom though. i really like it, but the NL brings a little more weight to the table. and its pretty doggone good too. i germed a power kush seed, and im going to see what thats like. i heard good things though.
hey i got a question. when i germ my seeds i use a solution of peroxide and water(1 part peroxide, 2 parts water) in a small container. my question is, would the rhiztonic be good for starting seeds with that method, minus the peroxide of course? if so what ratio of water to rhizo? just curious because i know its good for building a solid root system, but would it be good for starting a good system from seed or would it be too much. thanks.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-
I'm working through a lot of strains right now but i will slowing be weeding them out so i can get down to 2-4 strains that fit my needs.

This is a list of some of the strains i currently have growing:

* Sour Grapes (clone only) it's genetics are promising, its a mix of: Chemdog X Sour Diesel X Purple Elephant (Purple Urkle X Hash Plant)
* Headband
* Querkle (tga subcool)
* JillyBean (tga subcool)
* KaBoom (tga subcool unreleased)
* White Berry (Paradise Seeds)
* Chocolope (DNA Genetics)
* Mental Floss (Cotton Candy X DJ shorts Blueberry)
* Double Dawg (elite underground chemdog backcross)
* Watermelon Kush (clone only)
* Bubba Kush
* Pot of Gold (Flying Dutchmen)
* Gods Gift (clone only)
* L.S.D. (Barneys Farm)
* Blackberry ( Raspberry Cough X)

I got some seeds germed of some other stuff but the seeds were intantly attacked by fungus gnats larvae ;(

Rhizo works great for soaking seeds... I would just use a little amount. (start with 2ml per gal but u may want to try a couple at a higher dose to see how it goes) Any marine algea based product would probably be okay at lower doses... some peeps swear by superthrive for seed soakes.
 

vdubb808

Active Member
Thanks Zen & Jberry for the helpful info. The other day I picked up some Cal & Mag additive for when I transplant to the bigger pots. What the hydro store explained to me at the time I picked up, I guess would be buffering the coco. What they told me to do was add a Tbls to my coco mix it in w/ ph'd water and let it sit overnight. Then re-water it the next day and transplant.

I'm going to check out your journal Zen. It sounds like what I need, concerning my budget. Since this is my first grow I'm definitely trying to keep the budget tight. On my second, third and so on it probably won't matter as much to pinch pennies. I expect every grow to pay for itself and the next.
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
Yeah when a company says their coco is "buffered", what they are really saying is that they washed all the salts out of the coco and then reapplied a small amount of nutrients that the coco will take up and hold onto so that the when you feed your plant for the first time, the nutrients will be taken up by the roots/plant rather then being taken up by the coco. They use mainly Calcium to buffer with because it keeps the pH stable in the medium... they also use magnesium and sometimes other minerals like Nitrogen.

So yea, Cal/mag works pretty good to buffer coco... Do you have Canna in Hawaii? They make a buffering agent for buffering bricked coco or coco that has had the buffer rinsed away by plain water. It is a part of their COGR line if you have access to Canna over there then you may want to give it a try to compare it to the regular cal/mag product.
 

ZEN MASTER

Well-Known Member
Thanks Zen & Jberry for the helpful info. The other day I picked up some Cal & Mag additive for when I transplant to the bigger pots. What the hydro store explained to me at the time I picked up, I guess would be buffering the coco. What they told me to do was add a Tbls to my coco mix it in w/ ph'd water and let it sit overnight. Then re-water it the next day and transplant.

I'm going to check out your journal Zen. It sounds like what I need, concerning my budget. Since this is my first grow I'm definitely trying to keep the budget tight. On my second, third and so on it probably won't matter as much to pinch pennies. I expect every grow to pay for itself and the next.
You're Welcome.
just make sure you have everything you need first, or as much as possible. lights, medium, pots, nutes, floros(for seedlings,and clones), measuring tools(for nutes), ventilation(since its summer, or if its needed at all), among other things that you will think of that you need. remember this is a "hobby" of patience. to me it sounds like you are really ready to get started. but trust me if you need to wait till you get all you need together,........wait. it will be a easier, more enjoyable experience. plus you wont get yourself caught in the middle of a run and need to get something, but your money is low at that present time. trust me it stinks when that happens. i started at the end of '06 doing indoor, cause my outdoor was ripped off. but i was in such a rush to get started again, i just jumped into it thinking that i could just " get everything along the way" big mistake, IMO. but eventually like 6-7 months later, after alot of miserable looking harvest, i had everything i needed. but i ended up spending more money than i would have if i had been patient and gotten everything first, or at least all of the bare essentials. so thats just a from me to you. but hey dont let me discourage you . if "YOU" fell like you are ready to get going, then " effin get 'er done"

also the way i explain it in my journal is just using the base nutrients(A-B solutions,and a bloom booster), and i would suggest that for your first two to three grows, maybe even the fourth, that you just use the base nutes. that way when you start upgrading with your nutes and additives, you will have the basics dailed in, and if ever anything happened financially it would not be a problem for you to downgrade back to the basics. also it will make it easier for you to pinpoint if any new additives are not for that particular strain. but trusrt me with this stuff it doesnt take too long to get dailed in. oh yea, in the beginning until that time comes try to "WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN". its easy to remember shit when you can reference back to what youve done earlier.hope that helps man. holler at me.


PEACE!!!
-ZEN-
 

vdubb808

Active Member
I'm trying to find out if any of the local stores carry Canna products. No luck yet, but I only asked one store, who told me they are going to the hydro convention in SF and will be talking to the reps there to bring in their products. I checked out the Canna website and their coco stuff looks good for me. I like the fact that it's simple to use. I prefer products that are simple and reliable.
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
bummer thing for them is that Canna doesnt send any reps to the expo in S.F. this weekend... they just have models that hand out pamphlets... I asked canna why that was and they said because they are really picky about who they let sell their products and they avoid the expo because they dont want store owners nagging them about wanting to carry canna.
 

vdubb808

Active Member
bummer thing for them is that Canna doesnt send any reps to the expo in S.F. this weekend... they just have models that hand out pamphlets... I asked canna why that was and they said because they are really picky about who they let sell their products and they avoid the expo because they dont want store owners nagging them about wanting to carry canna.
That's funny. I guess business is business, I'm sure they know where to focus their attention. In retail it's probably best to nurture your existing accounts then to stretch yourself to thin. And at the same time you can keep your product in higher demand thru select retailers.
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
You dont have to use canna nutes if they are hard to find in your area.... I'm sure the local shops have something that would work for coco without you having to spend a arm and a leg ordering canna online. If you tell me what brands they do carry then i could put together something that would be just fine for coco. If they have House & Garden or Cutting Edge Solutions, I like both of their lines but they are both distributed through Humboldt Wholesale and I'm not sure if they distribute to Hawaii? I know they dont allow 2 shops within 40 miles of each other to sell their gear so if the nearby shops dont carry it, then maybe someone 40 miles away does? just something to think about if your trying to track down certain products.

Almost any brand will work if it is tweaked a little and supplemented with cal/mag... you just need to avoid high K levels during the first 4-6 weeks of the coco's use... The harder part is going to be finding good quality coco other than canna's coco because many coco coir mediums on the market haven't been leached of all of its toxic salts, and the batches are often inconsistent, while others are not aged properly... Also all coco besides canna's is steamed for sterilization which kills the beneficial fungi and bacteria natural found in the coco coir.

I'm trying to find out if any of the local stores carry Canna products. No luck yet, but I only asked one store, who told me they are going to the hydro convention in SF and will be talking to the reps there to bring in their products. I checked out the Canna website and their coco stuff looks good for me. I like the fact that it's simple to use. I prefer products that are simple and reliable.
 
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