Coconut coir anyone?
- Thread starter appleseed
- Start date
dirtyshawa
Well-Known Member
saw the thread and skimmed through a bit, been running coco for about a year. you can water everyday which i do but, mainly i feed according to need. i saw that some of you have been feeding at really high ph levels. optimum uptake of npk is 5.6-5.8, i feed at 5.2 allowing for swing and my run off falls within that range. so, for future reference to prevent lockout resulting in deficiencies start at a lower ph and allow room for swings which are usually minimal. anyway, i've tried a few different nutrients canna, pbp, and now i'm trying cns17 coco, $25gal, can't beat it and nothing else needed. had great results with each. tried blue mountain, terrible results, but, you live and learn. anyway, i feel like i have coco down to a science now, so, if you all have any questions let me know i'll be glad to help. coco really is the best medium. good luck.
aeviaanah
Well-Known Member
hey dirty hows it goin? i do have a few questions. anyone can feel free to express there opinions. i have been a soil grower for a couple years now. i just bought a brick of coco coir and i am wanting to introduce it into the grow room. what should be done when preparing to use coco coir?
i have my clones in 16 oz cups at the moment. they have soil in them now. transplanting a small amount of soil into the coco coir shouldnt be a problem should it?
also...ive heard about only using hydro nutrients. not sure why maybe you can explain? how do your nutrient levels compare to the manufacturers recommendation? i wouldnt know where to start when it comes to nutrients and coco coir.
are you familiar with mycorrhizae? should this be used in coco growing? thanks for your time.
i have my clones in 16 oz cups at the moment. they have soil in them now. transplanting a small amount of soil into the coco coir shouldnt be a problem should it?
also...ive heard about only using hydro nutrients. not sure why maybe you can explain? how do your nutrient levels compare to the manufacturers recommendation? i wouldnt know where to start when it comes to nutrients and coco coir.
are you familiar with mycorrhizae? should this be used in coco growing? thanks for your time.
NewGrowth
Well-Known Member
I use the Sunleaves Piece Coir blocks with good result. As someone mentioned it seems to be better to water with a solution of slightly lower pH than the range you are shooting for.
I use Ionic nutrients, Humic acid, and Cal-mag. Ever since I started adding humic acid I've been getting better results too.
I use Ionic nutrients, Humic acid, and Cal-mag. Ever since I started adding humic acid I've been getting better results too.
appleseed
Active Member
Now I'm confused again. If coir holds a natural PH of 7.0 why water at 5.5-5.8? I do know that soil runs higher than hydro but this stuff seems to fall in between sort of. Whats the ph of your runoff? I really like the consistency of this stuff and it seems great for seeds and seedlings but it's a bit odd for a soil grower... If I rinse my coir some more will the ph change or are you saying that the 2 ph levels are complimentary? I'm an old worm casting and mushroom compost sort and just learning about hydro and coir so any insight into the "nuts and bolts" of the process would be great. I tried pouring water at ph 8.+ thru coir and the runoff came out 7.0, but I'm using test strips and have a hard time judging sometimes...
NewGrowth
Well-Known Member
Coir is an inert media with a high cation-exchange rate so it quickly takes on the pH of whatever you water it with. Unlike soil all nutrients are readily available. So the best pH range is between 5.5-6.2.
I watered last night with 5.5 pH 770ppm nutrient solution and the resultant run-off was 6.0 1100 ppm. I believe the pH rise is due to me washing out the previous nutrient salts that the plants did not utilize. I water every two to three days but you can water everyday if you are afraid of salt build up.
Think of it more like rockwool or vermiculite, it is simply a natural alternative. I prefer it over rockwool because it requires no pre-soaking and is pretty much impossible to overwater.
figtree
Active Member
Now, i am trying to get a grip on ph and have heard people useing 6.3 ph'd water and the runoff was 6.0....this confused me because my runoff always is higher ph than the water i put in. was this a typo or poster put in numbers backwards? also wouldnt the nutrient salts bring the ph down not up? more acidic? I was actualy wondering if it was that the nutes were being used up and the remaining water was returning to its original ph after nutes are used up. my water starts at 6.0, lowers when i add nutes....then runoff raises up to 6.5 and it looks like they need some nutes.
can someone shed some light on this for me? i think im getting the jist of it, then i find some contrary information.
is it the coco raising the ph or is it the nutes being used up or is it flushing out the unused nutes, or a combination of all? i am back up to 1/4 strength on my nutes so i tend to think its the nutes being used up. please correct me if im mistaken..
can someone shed some light on this for me? i think im getting the jist of it, then i find some contrary information.
is it the coco raising the ph or is it the nutes being used up or is it flushing out the unused nutes, or a combination of all? i am back up to 1/4 strength on my nutes so i tend to think its the nutes being used up. please correct me if im mistaken..
dirtyshawa
Well-Known Member
coco is ph neutral and takes on the ph of the nutes and water it's feed. with a soil mix you might be able to maintain a higher ph like that but, if they said their running 100% coco or a perlite/coco mix they're lying. 5.6-6.0 at the highest, this is fact. there can be alot of things that contribute to swings, hard to say why your ph swings like that? do you add ph up and down in the same solution, if so that's a problem starter. many things can cause, ph swings. know this, there is something being done wrong. coco isn't hard it's quite simple but, you just can't go pick up some and start growing without doing a little homework. i hand water and all i do is bubble my nutes for a day or two and don't really worry about ph but, i know what my ratios are ppm, tap ph, etc. in order to get your setup dialed in you have to tinker. but, from what your saying it's obvious that your ph is too, high and your plants are experiencing lockout which will result in some or all types of deficiencies all at the same time. trust me i know. i tried blue mountain in coco couldn't get the ph right, resulting in all types of deficiencies. seemed i'd get one type in check then another would show up. they said it worked in coco but, it lacked in all areas with regard to coco. anyway, what type of nutrients are you using?
figtree
Active Member
Fox farm nutes big grow. 100% coir coco from hydrofarms. back to hand watering.
1/4 strenght nutes watering every other day. i havent used my ph up or ph down because the water i buy has a ph of 6.0, adding 1/4 strenght nutes only lowers it a touch, im guessing around 5.5 to 5.8. tap water is off the charts so i dont use it. last i checked my runnof was at 6.5. more than just the plain water i"m using, there must be something that makes it rise the way it does. the coco? its ph is around 6.5 to7?
my plants are actually doing well now that im over my huge ph issue.. im trying to learn more about ph so i know whats going on in there. and what affects the ph rising the way it does.... no more nutes in the water? salts left over from unused nutes ect. so that i will know what to do AND WHY...when i take my ph readings.
by the way......totaly loving coco!
1/4 strenght nutes watering every other day. i havent used my ph up or ph down because the water i buy has a ph of 6.0, adding 1/4 strenght nutes only lowers it a touch, im guessing around 5.5 to 5.8. tap water is off the charts so i dont use it. last i checked my runnof was at 6.5. more than just the plain water i"m using, there must be something that makes it rise the way it does. the coco? its ph is around 6.5 to7?
my plants are actually doing well now that im over my huge ph issue.. im trying to learn more about ph so i know whats going on in there. and what affects the ph rising the way it does.... no more nutes in the water? salts left over from unused nutes ect. so that i will know what to do AND WHY...when i take my ph readings.
by the way......totaly loving coco!
aeviaanah
Well-Known Member
hey dirty hows it goin? i do have a few questions. anyone can feel free to express there opinions. i have been a soil grower for a couple years now. i just bought a brick of coco coir and i am wanting to introduce it into the grow room. what should be done when preparing to use coco coir?
i have my clones in 16 oz cups at the moment. they have soil in them now. transplanting a small amount of soil into the coco coir shouldnt be a problem should it?
also...ive heard about only using hydro nutrients. not sure why maybe you can explain? how do your nutrient levels compare to the manufacturers recommendation? i wouldnt know where to start when it comes to nutrients and coco coir.
are you familiar with mycorrhizae? should this be used in coco growing? thanks for your time.
i have my clones in 16 oz cups at the moment. they have soil in them now. transplanting a small amount of soil into the coco coir shouldnt be a problem should it?
also...ive heard about only using hydro nutrients. not sure why maybe you can explain? how do your nutrient levels compare to the manufacturers recommendation? i wouldnt know where to start when it comes to nutrients and coco coir.
are you familiar with mycorrhizae? should this be used in coco growing? thanks for your time.
dirtyshawa
Well-Known Member
ok, good to hear things are turning around for you. so, really nothing to add but, two potential problems for you.
1. make sure you ph test the solution right before you feed, that's probably why theres a big swing in your runoff. try feeding at 5.2 and see how your runoff tests.
2. salt is cocos arch nemesis. salt causes lockout and will also, throw your ph out of whack. i use clearex every two weeks, it really flushes the coco clean.
yes, i use humboldts mayan microzyme along with humboldt honey. you bubble both together for two days. micro organisms break help break down nutrients and optimize uptake of those nutrients and prevent disease. they help your plant in every aspect. anyway, the micros in mayan microzyme feed off the humbodlt honey and grow larger and strong becoming sort of like a miniature defense force for your plants.
hope this helps you guys.
figtree
Active Member
aeviaanah, i'll try to answer some of these to the best of my knowledge.......
i rinse my coco before using it to remove all the small particles and salts and what nots, also to get my ph buffered.
people mix coco with soil as an amendment so a little soil in yer coco should be fine.
ive heard the nute thing too but have also heard as long as it has all your micro and macro nutrients you should be fine, I'm using fox farms grow big at the moment. (not the hydro grow big).
i've heard micorrhizea work to your benefit no matter what your medium is.
hope this helps a bit..still trying to figure out this stuff as well, mostly ph though.....i am stumped. i come from the dirt as well and never really had to deal with ph before now.
i rinse my coco before using it to remove all the small particles and salts and what nots, also to get my ph buffered.
people mix coco with soil as an amendment so a little soil in yer coco should be fine.
ive heard the nute thing too but have also heard as long as it has all your micro and macro nutrients you should be fine, I'm using fox farms grow big at the moment. (not the hydro grow big).
i've heard micorrhizea work to your benefit no matter what your medium is.
hope this helps a bit..still trying to figure out this stuff as well, mostly ph though.....i am stumped. i come from the dirt as well and never really had to deal with ph before now.
dirtyshawa
Well-Known Member
answered your questions within your quote, aeviaanah. don't know how that happended
figtree
Active Member
Dirty... maybe you can clear this up for me....
what i am understanding is: if my runoff is at 6.5 and i want my ph at 6 i use a nutrient solution that is ph'd to 5.5 and that will balance the ph in the root zone to 6?
in other words offset the solution going in to find the balance when it comes out? do you test your runoff before you feed to find out what ph to set your solution to?
simpler way to ask........ runoff is 6.5, solution going in is 5.5 would that mean the root zone is at ph 6? this is kinda how i am understanding it.
another example..........runoff is at 7 solution going in is at 5, would it be correct to say the root zone is at 6? is this how we balance it out?
dang sorry for the long question..............
what i am understanding is: if my runoff is at 6.5 and i want my ph at 6 i use a nutrient solution that is ph'd to 5.5 and that will balance the ph in the root zone to 6?
in other words offset the solution going in to find the balance when it comes out? do you test your runoff before you feed to find out what ph to set your solution to?
simpler way to ask........ runoff is 6.5, solution going in is 5.5 would that mean the root zone is at ph 6? this is kinda how i am understanding it.
another example..........runoff is at 7 solution going in is at 5, would it be correct to say the root zone is at 6? is this how we balance it out?
dang sorry for the long question..............
figtree
Active Member
whoa, thats neat dirty. sneak them answers in there...lol
by the way thank you dirty for helping us out here, i have been fumbling around for a bit and now am feeling a bit more comfortable.
dirtyshawa
Well-Known Member
when i was learning i was told to feed with runoff so, my plants to don't get shock and a bunch of other stuff i found not neccessary. what, i'm saying is i never heard of or experienced my runoff ph drop, it's always gone up. not saying it doesn't happen, idk, never seen it. trust me, feed at 5.2, smoke an elle and forget about it. when everything is dialed in your hand watered plants should grow just as fast if not faster than any hydro system, out yield soil, and your herb should be as flavorful as soil grown.
dirtyshawa
Well-Known Member
fig, is your runoff 7 or are you just using that as an example? if you water or feed at 5.5 and it swings that much i might suggest a flush and test the flushed runoff. try to maintan runoff ph at 5.6-6.0, 6.2 at the most extreme. 5.6 will optimize your grow
figtree
Active Member
no my runoffs at 6.5, i was using 7 as an example....
right on i think i get it now, maintain the ph of the runoff a bit lower in my case... this is exactly the detail i think i was in need of. or it was the headband.. lol idk but it just clicked. i'll be tryin out my ph down tomorow.
thanks dirty for the information, much apreciated.
right on i think i get it now, maintain the ph of the runoff a bit lower in my case... this is exactly the detail i think i was in need of. or it was the headband.. lol idk but it just clicked. i'll be tryin out my ph down tomorow.
thanks dirty for the information, much apreciated.
dirtyshawa
Well-Known Member
i could direct you to other sites but, i think i saw a really good one on here a while back. try the search, should bring up what your looking for if not, just holla at me.
not a problem anytime
