Concerning - potassium deficiency?

Hey, was hoping to get some help/input here.

Bubba Kush, week 3ish, all organic, just put a top dress down which was lower in nitrogen and higher in p and k (guano, kelp, alfalfa, castings epsom). Also just did a compost tea to kickstart things.

Over the past 4-5 days I’ve noticed something concerning. The dark discoloration at the tip and edges of the leaves is is spreading to a necrosis and necrosis is taking over the leaves quickly. It’s spreading up the plant… dropping leaves much faster than it should. Overall the plants don’t look as healthy.

I can update how much the tea helps tomorrow; but does it look like I have a potassium deficiency?
Any ways to address quickly?

to much food...

As mentioned above ^^^ it could be from too much fertilizer throwing things out of balance, more potassium might not be the answer.

I think more information would help, such as: What size containers? What was added to the soil up to this point? How much of all those things did you add when you top-dressed?

weedstoner420 said:

As mentioned above ^^^ it could be from too much fertilizer throwing things out of balance, more potassium might not be the answer.

I think more information would help, such as: What size containers? What was added to the soil up to this point? How much of all those things did you add when you top-dressed?

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Hey. I did think nute burn at first but I’m leaning away from that. I am inexperienced with organically though. It’s the yellowing in the inside of the leaves and the way this starts as a darker tip/edge and then turns yellow that concerns me with potassium. They also did not stretch nearly as I’d expected. Hope the info below helps…..

Besides the below temps/humidity have been within range except for one light burn that corrected itself after raising lights, watered with distilled h2o, and PH never lower than 6.4 or higher than 6.9.

• Early nov- sowed seeds in ff happy frog.
• Nov 20ish - up potted to 6 gallon pots of ff ocean forest
• Dec 15ish - they looked hungry as if the Fox Farm medium was running out of nutrients.
• December 20ish - they were up-potted to 10 gallon pots of FFOF.
• 2nd week of January- they looked hungry/deficient on cal/mag + flip to flower was imminent so I top dressed as described below + watered in with a compost tea + added 10-12 worms to each pot to get things moving in the top layer of soil…. This quickly cleared up all evident deficiencies:
  • 2 Tablespoons Kelp Meal
  • 4 Tablespoons Fish Bone Meal
  • 1-2 tbsp bat guano
  • 1 tsp epsom salt
  • 1/2" layer of worm castings
  • Mulch
• Week of 1/16 - flip to flower
• Feb 5ish - begin noticing symptoms in pics attached so I slowed down watering to slow soil down but the issue has just gotten worse ever since.
• Early this week/last night - added the below top dress with a compost tea added last night:
  • 2 Tablespoons Kelp Meal
  • 4 Tablespoons Fish Bone Meal
  • 1-2 tbsp bat guano
  • 1 tsp epsom salt
  • 1/2" layer of worm castings
  • Remulch
• There was an alfalfa sprout tea (1/4 strength applied in early flower but I don’t recall just when)… maybe 1.5-2 weeks ago.

swedsteven said:

to much food...

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Hey Swed…. I think you suggested this before and time will tell if you were right. My gut is telling me it is a deficiency…. We will see.

I wanted to ask in case further research sways me back to feeling it is in fact a hot soil issue. What is my quickest way to remedy?
I assume it would be detrimental to flush the soil heavily and disturb that top layer of soil/amendments/castings in order to remove some of the top dress I applied?

Growin4fun77 said:

Hey. I did think nute burn at first but I’m leaning away from that. I am inexperienced with organically though. It’s the yellowing in the inside of the leaves and the way this starts as a darker tip/edge and then turns yellow that concerns me with potassium. They also did not stretch nearly as I’d expected. Hope the info below helps…..

Besides the below temps/humidity have been within range except for one light burn that corrected itself after raising lights, watered with distilled h2o, and PH never lower than 6.4 or higher than 6.9.

• Early nov- sowed seeds in ff happy frog.
• Nov 20ish - up potted to 6 gallon pots of ff ocean forest
• Dec 15ish - they looked hungry as if the Fox Farm medium was running out of nutrients.
• December 20ish - they were up-potted to 10 gallon pots of FFOF.
• 2nd week of January- they looked hungry/deficient on cal/mag + flip to flower was imminent so I top dressed as described below + watered in with a compost tea + added 10-12 worms to each pot to get things moving in the top layer of soil…. This quickly cleared up all evident deficiencies:
  • 2 Tablespoons Kelp Meal
  • 4 Tablespoons Fish Bone Meal
  • 1-2 tbsp bat guano
  • 1 tsp epsom salt
  • 1/2" layer of worm castings
  • Mulch
• Week of 1/16 - flip to flower
• Feb 5ish - begin noticing symptoms in pics attached so I slowed down watering to slow soil down but the issue has just gotten worse ever since.
• Early this week/last night - added the below top dress with a compost tea added last night:
  • 2 Tablespoons Kelp Meal
  • 4 Tablespoons Fish Bone Meal
  • 1-2 tbsp bat guano
  • 1 tsp epsom salt
  • 1/2" layer of worm castings
  • Remulch
• There was an alfalfa sprout tea (1/4 strength applied in early flower but I don’t recall just when)… maybe 1.5-2 weeks ago.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, sounds like your top dress has plenty of N, P, and Ca, but not much potassium (except the kelp meal but that's only 2 tablespoons of a 1-0-2 amendment)...the plants look pretty dark green in the pics and the new growth isn't burnt, so yeah it could definitely be a potassium deficiency.

Not sure how to address it at this point, maybe something like a langbeinite (0-0-22 with Mg and S)...? I use "easy weed" soluble seaweed on my moms, it's a super concentrated powder that is like 1-2-18 or something, but the application rate is like 1/4 tsp per gallon in water...maybe you could foliar some of that...?

I'm also a relative noob when it comes to organics, and I try to stick with dry fertilizer blends (ala Espoma, Gaia, Dr. Earth, etc) rather than individual ingredients for top-dressing. Just using an all-purpose blend and following the application directions on the bag takes the guesswork out of what to give them and when. Sorry it doesn't help with your current situation, but something to consider for future grows. Good luck!

Growin4fun77 said:

Hey. I did think nute burn at first but I’m leaning away from that. I am inexperienced with organically though. It’s the yellowing in the inside of the leaves and the way this starts as a darker tip/edge and then turns yellow that concerns me with potassium. They also did not stretch nearly as I’d expected. Hope the info below helps…..

Besides the below temps/humidity have been within range except for one light burn that corrected itself after raising lights, watered with distilled h2o, and PH never lower than 6.4 or higher than 6.9.

• Early nov- sowed seeds in ff happy frog.
• Nov 20ish - up potted to 6 gallon pots of ff ocean forest
• Dec 15ish - they looked hungry as if the Fox Farm medium was running out of nutrients.
• December 20ish - they were up-potted to 10 gallon pots of FFOF.
• 2nd week of January- they looked hungry/deficient on cal/mag + flip to flower was imminent so I top dressed as described below + watered in with a compost tea + added 10-12 worms to each pot to get things moving in the top layer of soil…. This quickly cleared up all evident deficiencies:
  • 2 Tablespoons Kelp Meal
  • 4 Tablespoons Fish Bone Meal
  • 1-2 tbsp bat guano
  • 1 tsp epsom salt
  • 1/2" layer of worm castings
  • Mulch
• Week of 1/16 - flip to flower
• Feb 5ish - begin noticing symptoms in pics attached so I slowed down watering to slow soil down but the issue has just gotten worse ever since.
• Early this week/last night - added the below top dress with a compost tea added last night:
  • 2 Tablespoons Kelp Meal
  • 4 Tablespoons Fish Bone Meal
  • 1-2 tbsp bat guano
  • 1 tsp epsom salt
  • 1/2" layer of worm castings
  • Remulch
• There was an alfalfa sprout tea (1/4 strength applied in early flower but I don’t recall just when)… maybe 1.5-2 weeks ago.

Click to expand...

Weedstoner made a lot of good points. I too am a fan of Langbeinite. That's got Mg, S, and K. Go easy though. It does look like K deficiency but I'm kinda thinking it's more of a lockout that's an actual deficiency. Too much Ca and Mg can both lockout K. I might cut out the kelp for now too and see how they react. Seems I used a bit too much kelp and my plants didn't like it. My guess was the salt. But I was giving more than you. I'd cut the Epsom out too for now.

What type of guano are you using? There's a bunch of different ones.

Too much food.

Can’t get any simpler than that. You compounded “ multiple feed “ on top of each other. Plus excessive nitrogen sources ( ewc / bat guano / fish and even more fox farm. )

That is what is the cause. Grower error.

It take many weeks for plant to exhaust ocean forest - an already nute dense medium. You literally could have gotten away with just the medium up potting.

Now you are adding compost tea and a hundred unnecessary supplements to a medium that already has it.

At most a top dressing of Fox Farm at intervals during grow is all that was needed. Now that medium is is overfed ( bat guano will still add nitrogen as it continues to breakdown. ). Now that they are in bloom the excess could hamper flower formation and cause interference with elements the bloom stage wants.

Budzbuddha said:

Too much food.

Can’t get any simpler than that. You compounded “ multiple feed “ on top of each other. Plus excessive nitrogen sources ( ewc / bat guano / fish and even more fox farm. )

That is what is the cause. Grower error.

It take many weeks for plant to exhaust ocean forest - an already nute dense medium. You literally could have gotten away with just the medium up potting.

Now you are adding compost tea and a hundred unnecessary supplements to a medium that already has it.

At most a top dressing of Fox Farm at intervals during grow is all that was needed. Now that medium is is overfed ( bat guano will still add nitrogen as it continues to breakdown. ). Now that they are in bloom the excess could hamper flower formation and cause interference with elements the bloom stage wants.

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There's lots of different guanos. I agree it's toxicity though.

Notice the wide use of supplementary elements - teas - fish bone - fresh medium - compost tea - etc.

Even alfalfa tea … what ?

Way too many things for a simple plant.

Budzbuddha said:

Notice the wide use of supplementary elements - teas - fish bone - fresh medium - compost tea - etc.

Even alfalfa tea … what ?

Way too many things for a simple plant.

Click to expand...

Damn. I didn't see the alfalfa tea too, . Wonder what compost the compost tea is made with. But ya that's way overboard.

I mean, I guess some of those amendments are pretty "hot" (guano and bone meal) but aside from teas and worm castings, they've only given 1 cup total (16 Tbs), and top-dressed at that. For plants that are roughly 3 months old, that doesn't sound like overkill to me. All I'm thinking is the top-dressing is unbalanced, hardly any K relative to other macro nutes.

@PadawanWarrior does buildasoil sell anything with K in it other than langbeinite? I checked their website and that seems like the only thing. And to me to seems to have disproportionately high levels of magnesium and sulfur to go along with it, like you wouldn't want to use it just to supplement potassium...

The bat guano was overkill as both the N and the P version are both fast acting. Fast acting guanos need to be used carefully when not already mixed in a balanced fertilizer.

weedstoner420 said:

I mean, I guess some of those amendments are pretty "hot" (guano and bone meal) but aside from teas and worm castings, they've only given 1 cup total (16 Tbs), and top-dressed at that. For plants that are roughly 3 months old, that doesn't sound like overkill to me. All I'm thinking is the top-dressing is unbalanced, hardly any K relative to other macro nutes.

@PadawanWarrior does buildasoil sell anything with K in it other than langbeinite? I checked their website and that seems like the only thing. And to me to seems to have disproportionately high levels of magnesium and sulfur to go along with it, like you wouldn't want to use it just to supplement potassium...

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Yep. And they do. The Langbeinite I heard you should use when you need Mg. And to use it for the Mg and not the K since there's so much Mg. I know exactly what you're talking about. I tried using it when I needed to add K and It started getting worse and worse. That's when I figured it out.

They have Potassium Sulfate which doesn't have the Mg. I just bought some but haven't used any yet. I'm gonna test it out when I start up again.

PadawanWarrior said:

Yep. And they do. The Langbeinite I heard you should use when you need Mg. And to use it for the Mg and not the K since there's so much Mg. I know exactly what you're talking about. I tried using it when I needed to add K and It started getting worse and worse. That's when I figured it out.

They have Potassium Sulfate which doesn't have the Mg. I just bought some but haven't used any yet. I'm gonna test it out when I start up again.

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The replies are a huge help. Maybe we have a combo… soil a little too hot AND low on potassium. As @weedstoner420 pointed out, I have tried to keep my top dressings, and teas to a 1/2 strength or less. Still not denying there could be too much going on. I’m learning. Maybe being a little too high strung in the process though.

As for your feedback @Budzbuddha @Kushash … are there any immediate steps one could take to cool the soil down if it’s too hot? Or is it best to let this run its course?

Those who think it’s potassium…. Would this be a functional product to try if the issue does not resolve itself in the coming days?

Thanks to all for the help/feedback and replies.

PadawanWarrior said:

Weedstoner made a lot of good points. I too am a fan of Langbeinite. That's got Mg, S, and K. Go easy though. It does look like K deficiency but I'm kinda thinking it's more of a lockout that's an actual deficiency. Too much Ca and Mg can both lockout K. I might cut out the kelp for now too and see how they react. Seems I used a bit too much kelp and my plants didn't like it. My guess was the salt. But I was giving more than you. I'd cut the Epsom out too for now.

What type of guano are you using? There's a bunch of different ones.

Click to expand...

Bat guano is the down to earth 7-3-1, and seabird guano is also down to earth 0-11-0

Budzbuddha said:

Too much food.

Can’t get any simpler than that. You compounded “ multiple feed “ on top of each other. Plus excessive nitrogen sources ( ewc / bat guano / fish and even more fox farm. )

That is what is the cause. Grower error.

It take many weeks for plant to exhaust ocean forest - an already nute dense medium. You literally could have gotten away with just the medium up potting.

Now you are adding compost tea and a hundred unnecessary supplements to a medium that already has it.

At most a top dressing of Fox Farm at intervals during grow is all that was needed. Now that medium is is overfed ( bat guano will still add nitrogen as it continues to breakdown. ). Now that they are in bloom the excess could hamper flower formation and cause interference with elements the bloom stage wants.

Click to expand...

One small note to add, budz…. Based off any grow journals I can find for the same strain/breeder the flowers appear to be right on schedule. The interference you are referring to…. Are you suggesting the health of the plant now indicates interference is taking place so plants aren’t getting their requirements or are you indicating this is something to think about moving down the road?

Growin4fun77 said:

Bat guano is the down to earth 7-3-1, and seabird guano is also down to earth 0-11-0

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I have those too. I like the bat. Not a big fan of the seabird though. It seems to be hotter or something. A premix I added that too got like 106 degrees. It could have been something else, but I've also noticed getting burnt pistils before using it. I don't have that problem with high P bat. I love high P bat. If you see P deficiency you can throw some on and it works pretty quick. Well faster than a lot of stuff.

But just cut it all out for now. And is there a reason you're using distilled water? And are you adjusting the pH? It sounded like it.

Edit: I should clarify a bit. I have no problem using the seabird but if I do I'd precook it so it's not as hot. When the mix has cooled off it's not as harsh. I don't know if that makes any sense.

PadawanWarrior said:

I have those too. I like the bat. Not a big fan of the seabird though. It seems to be hotter or something. A premix I added that too got like 106 degrees. It could have been something else, but I've also noticed getting burnt pistils before using it. I don't have that problem with high P bat. I love high P bat. If you see P deficiency you can throw some on and it works pretty quick. Well faster than a lot of stuff.

But just cut it all out for now. And is there a reason you're using distilled water? And are you adjusting the pH? It sounded like it.

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I’ve heard of ppl doing soil swirly’s in the past to get PH measurements. Could I do that to check the TDS/EC? Maybe that would tell me if the soil is too loaded?
I’m using distilled because I’ve read/heard that chlorinated water and unknown minerals may be bad for organic soil. Also the water I am is awful.

Growin4fun77 said:

I’ve heard of ppl doing soil swirly’s in the past to get PH measurements. Could I do that to check the TDS/EC? Maybe that would tell me if the soil is too loaded?
I’m using distilled because I’ve read/heard that chlorinated water and unknown minerals may be bad for organic soil. Also the water I am is awful.

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I meant do you adjust the water? And you're thinking about a slurry test. I wouldn't worry about soil pH right now though.
A tiny bit of Cl isn't horrible. How bad is your tap water? Do you drink it?