Connection between 24hr lights & males

videoman40

videoman40

Well-Known Member
Dude, I appreciate your alternate point of view. I believe the "norm" male to female ratio is closer to 60/40, not 50/50. I am averaging 70/30. But I have not implemented all the techniques mentioned in the beginning of this post yet. My friend however is averaging 90/10

I do believe there is a pre-determined factor involved, but I also believe that you can manipulate the end result to some degree. Just as you can increase or lower a plants yeild when compared to the advertised yeild, you can alter the sex to some degree. You already recognize that a hermie is possible, if it is possible to turn a female into a hermie, why would you doubt the possibility of turning a male into a female?

I think the key here is timing. It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.

It is kind of hard to argue with someone who gets 90/10 results when implementing these techniques. I also believe that Dutch Passion has put a fair amount of expertise into this.

Peace

skunkushybrid said:
Under 24 hour light in veg', your plants will grow bigger and stronger, quicker. As for male to female ratio, isn't it 50/50? When I first started growing I used 18/6 and out of 40 seeds I got 20 females and one hermy. On the next grow (where i had to germinate 20) it was simply easier to leave the veg' area on for 24 hours, especially as this was the cloning area too. Out of 20 seeds I got 10 females and one hermy. So, no difference whatsoever. Also, I have germinated 10 seeds and got 6 fem's, under 24 hour light.

Within a seed is the plants genetic make-up. I believe you have male seed and female seed, that it is genetic, and the only way to alter the sex of your seed or young plant is to do it on this level. Except for hermies of course.

Also, I have just germinated 5 la confidential x mystery haze. They are under constant 24 hour light, mh. They are only a few days old, and if i was to place bets I'd say 2 males, 2 females and one runt that it really won't matter the sex.
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videoman40

videoman40

Well-Known Member
Glad you liked the sarcasm. This forum is open to everyones opinion, no-one is going to edit your post, guaranteed. This way everyone can see it for what it is. To start your post off with BS, is offensive dude. I am glad to you the $250.00 investment is small, to some of us however it isn't so small, and when you factor in the work involved it gets even larger.

You are free to see things any way you wish. It is that simple, you dont need my permission for shit dude. However just because you have an opposing point of view, don't expect me to abandon what I believe to be true, and have factual data from very reliable sources to back it up, just because you say "BS".

I do however agree with you on the point that I would never use feminized seeds either. (So there you got one)lol

I do not have a bong n my hand dude, and I do take what I read with a grain of salt, especialy right now. I believe in experimenting and verifying info though.

Why is it when you disagree with me, you are offended and feel your post will be censored and try to cry foul? I listened to you, quite patiently. I don't agree with you.

There are 1000's of ways to grow a weed, and quite successfully. I am sure your way works for you. I am also sure that you can manipulate the sex of a plant to some degree.

You know what, skunkushybrid dosent agree with this post either, and no-one is going to edit his post either. Of course he dosent start his post off with "BS" IF you want to become a part of this community, that feel free to come in, make some posts and get known, but to pop in periodically and start shit, than disappear is BS. lol

Peace

PS "Do you understand what the phrase "take what you read with a grain of salt ....means?"
Yes and I find it necessary to apply to your statements.

mjbondage said:
Please DO go on and on..I'd love the scaraism..whatever that is. Is that anything like an aneurysm? Cause i could do without some of those.

I see right away that this forum is only open to senior member's opinions huh? well,Im going to give it anyway..If that offends you then dont read it, or have your mod buddies delete it.
Seems unless I see it "your" way around here,..my experiences have no value in this forum??

I never put down any specific technique ...put the bong down for a second dude...
I was just suggesting that you cant believe everything that you read.
In my case, largely what Ive read about marijuana botany is bs and the EXACT opposite of what the "experts" say works the best,...works fine in my system, with alot less maintenance and way less money. maybe u dont,...but I like saving money and time.

Large investment?? Ive got like 250 in the system in question... including nutes LOL

Im sorry if I confused you videoman.....I never said that I got 5 males from fem seeds..I said I got 2...and it was from a 4pack of female seeds ICE. I did complain and recieved replacements ASAP. Not that Id use female seeds again..gave em away. I was just trying to save some time, and space.

The 80% males ..well,I was referring to using mh/flouro in veg then hps for bloom..and that I get better ratios with strictly hps.Sorry if I confused.
As far as no precautions in my system...My home is temperature/humidity controlled(severe asthma) and my house is kept clean with plenty of filteration for dust.. So i dont have those problems to contend with.
ANd ph in a properly working biosystem WILL take care of itself..unless your water supply is terribly hard. Which mine is not. I spent 2 grows chasing my ph only to find that I was causing more harm than good in this type of system. I should note that my res is 3 times as big as the buckets' volume so I have more buffering ability than the average hydro system.
Why would I flush ,when I see no significant difference than when I do? Another waste of time for me..I'd Rather spend my time smoking buds.
And soil buds taste ...well....like soil to me. hydro tastes much cleaner to me and I prefer it. Is that Ok with you as well??

Seems like a ganja guru should know some of this shit.

Do you understand what the phrase "take what you read with a grain of salt ....means?

Nevermind..I just saw where youre from...
oops ...there i go giving my opinion again
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skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
videoman40 said:
Dude, I appreciate your alternate point of view. I believe the "norm" male to female ratio is closer to 60/40, not 50/50. I am averaging 70/30. But I have not implemented all the techniques mentioned in the beginning of this post yet. My friend however is averaging 90/10

I do believe there is a pre-determined factor involved, but I also believe that you can manipulate the end result to some degree. Just as you can increase or lower a plants yeild when compared to the advertised yeild, you can alter the sex to some degree. You already recognize that a hermie is possible, if it is possible to turn a female into a hermie, why would you doubt the possibility of turning a male into a female?

I think the key here is timing. It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.

It is kind of hard to argue with someone who gets 90/10 results when implementing these techniques. I also believe that Dutch Passion has put a fair amount of expertise into this.

Peace
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I don't know anything about these results. A hermie is a different thing entirely to completely changing the sex of a young plant. Sorry, really gotta go. Nice talking to ya
 
cali-high

cali-high

Well-Known Member
well i have my clones and my new seedlings under 24hrs under my floros. so ill tell you if i get any males. but you knows whats funny ive all the plants that i grow indoors turn out to be female. but of course i grow plants that have a higher chance to be female. theyre not femonized its just the strain.
 
videoman40

videoman40

Well-Known Member
Mazar is like that, it has a higher ration of females to males. In nature though, the scales are already tipped in favor of females though. Like 60/40
 
cali-high

cali-high

Well-Known Member
yeah its much better i think lol.

yeah videoman from the other post i have nothing against you or anything its just planet skunk is awsome.

peace
 
videoman40

videoman40

Well-Known Member
Dude, relax, its fine, it happens where one person has a great experience with a company, and another falls thru the cracks. I think I fell thru the cracks over there, and the person who is emailing me is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Peace
 
purplegorillas

purplegorillas

Active Member
Im an outdoor grower and this post is more directed towards artificial lighting and probality of females plants, however theres an easy way to increase the percentage of females plants germinated from seeds: ethylene. Ethylene is a plant hormone in gas form, it promotes induction of femaleness in dioecious flowers (laymens terms--> stimulates female gender in marijuana). There are several cheap ways to apply ethylene to your plants, put your seeds in a bag with ripening bananas (when the bananas are still green but mostly yellow) for 48 - 72 hours or dissolving birthcontrol pills into water and putting the seeds into the solution for 24-48 hours
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
I've done a little more reading on this subject and it seems that environment may have something to do with sex...

For this to work though, to my mind, the plants must be asexual up until a certain point. Although as we all know, often we can tell the sex of a plant just by looking and watching how it grows. I've been caught out once or twice but I'm usually on the money. We start laying bets a few days after they've sprouted...

The other way where a male is actually changed into a female does not sit right on my mind. Just because a male is not in it's ideal environment will not turn it into a female, more likely it will continue to be a male just not as strong as it should be, or at worst it will turn into a hermie.
 
videoman40

videoman40

Well-Known Member
PurpleGorilla, dude......you surprised me! lol, you also bring me back in time too. By now you all know I love to do reserch, and I did do some research into this purple, a while back. I came across the ethyl technique from Greenman's Free Online Marijuana Growing Library.

It was during this research that I learned about dutch passions suggestions for more females!

My conclusion from this info was Greenman's pages contains a lot of good info, but there also seems to be a fair amount of stuff based more on lore than fact. Thing is he doesn't say anything at all about how to go about spraying the plants....which I found sorta odd as he describes in detail how to poison seeds with colchicine to produce polyploidal freaks (some of the info in that portion of the article is lore too).

Dilute ethanol sprays have been used on grapes and other fruits/vegetables to improve yield and/or speed maturation but they are applied after flowering, so would have no influence on sex except to possibly induce hermie changes. Dilute is the operative word as too strong a solution will likely kill the tenderlings.

There is some evidence that the environment early on in a pot plant's life has a strong influence on the plant's sex, but that's the only reference I've found to spraying them with alcohol......

Dutch Passion Seed Co. published an environmental manipulation which is what I just passed along in this thread.

Peace


purplegorillas said:
Im an outdoor grower and this post is more directed towards artificial lighting and probality of females plants, however theres an easy way to increase the percentage of females plants germinated from seeds: ethylene. Ethylene is a plant hormone in gas form, it promotes induction of femaleness in dioecious flowers (laymens terms--> stimulates female gender in marijuana). There are several cheap ways to apply ethylene to your plants, put your seeds in a bag with ripening bananas (when the bananas are still green but mostly yellow) for 48 - 72 hours or dissolving birthcontrol pills into water and putting the seeds into the solution for 24-48 hours
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R

ronbud1963

Well-Known Member
WOW what a post,i belive enviroment factors do come into play to some extent,but the problem here is there is NO way to do a comparisum,sorry about the spelling.its not like comparing mh lights to hps lights.i believe some people have better luck than others,think about people that have grown for years and have gotten 10 males from 10 seeds,just my thoughts.
 
M

mjbondage

Active Member
Its all good videoman40...I guess I did come off sounding abrasive.. Didnt mean to though...The killer gets the best of even my veteran lungs sometimes and I probably should have put the bong down sooner as well
 
M

mjbondage

Active Member
ronbud1963 said:
WOW what a post,i belive enviroment factors do come into play to some extent,but the problem here is there is NO way to do a comparisum,sorry about the spelling.its not like comparing mh lights to hps lights.i believe some people have better luck than others,think about people that have grown for years and have gotten 10 males from 10 seeds,just my thoughts.
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Thats what i was trying to say, but not as nice...Just because someone says its so, doesnt necessarily mean its fact ..in your system you might just realise the opposite is true
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
mjbondage said:
Thats what i was trying to say, but not as nice...Just because someone says its so, doesnt necessarily mean its fact ..in your system you might just realise the opposite is true
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I made a similar point, when i said that I didn't know anything about this 90/10 ratio. I believe the sex of the plant is determined in the seed, just as our sex is similarly developed. by changing a young boy's environment you could make him believe that he is a girl, but you certainly couldn't physically change him into one without going back to when the sex is first determined, and then only on a genetic level.

When a plant acts and grows like a male it usually always turns out to be a male. Aside from runts and hermies my ratio is at 50/50. On my first grow I germinated 80 seeds, for a reason that is too long to go into suffice to say the cause was a mixture of criminal investigation and paranoia, we got rid of 40 of the freshly sprouted seedlings. Paranoia wave over and 40 of the plants were left. Out of these 40 we still got 20 females, despite us not having a clue of the sex of the 40 we threw away. Odds.

It's true that certain strains will naturally produce more females than others, maybe because they come from a slightly windier climate so not as many males are needed to pollinate as many females. I don't know exactly, but what I'm saying is that I believe sex is determined on a genetic level based upon environmental factors of a particular plant's immediate ancestors.
 
nongreenthumb

nongreenthumb

Well-Known Member
skunkushybrid said:
I made a similar point, when i said that I didn't know anything about this 90/10 ratio. I believe the sex of the plant is determined in the seed, just as our sex is similarly developed. by changing a young boy's environment you could make him believe that he is a girl, but you certainly couldn't physically change him into one without going back to when the sex is first determined, and then only on a genetic level.

When a plant acts and grows like a male it usually always turns out to be a male. Aside from runts and hermies my ratio is at 50/50. On my first grow I germinated 80 seeds, for a reason that is too long to go into suffice to say the cause was a mixture of criminal investigation and paranoia, we got rid of 40 of the freshly sprouted seedlings. Paranoia wave over and 40 of the plants were left. Out of these 40 we still got 20 females, despite us not having a clue of the sex of the 40 we threw away. Odds.

It's true that certain strains will naturally produce more females than others, maybe because they come from a slightly windier climate so not as many males are needed to pollinate as many females. I don't know exactly, but what I'm saying is that I believe sex is determined on a genetic level based upon environmental factors of a particular plant's immediate ancestors.
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I have often wondered how you can change the sex of a seedlings, surely when the mother is in her reproduction cycle she will have an even mixture of boys and girls, these are taken off and put into little mixed bags, so you can get a bag of 10 fems but that karmas gonna come back because the odds have to even out, there isnt anyone out there that can mess with the law of averages.
 
videoman40

videoman40

Well-Known Member
This is a form of manipulation:
When hempseed is treated with the female hormone estrogen, percentage of females that are produced will increase by about 10%. Dissolve a birth control pill in water and soak the seeds overnight in the solution. After the initial soaking, continue to treat the seeds by sprouting them on a paper towel soaked in the solution.

This is a form of manipulation:
Electricity also can change the sexual expression of cannabis; B.R. Lazarenko and I.B. Gorbatovskaya reported:

"Under the influence of the electrical current, the numerical proportions between hemp plants of different sexes was changed by comparison with the control to give an increase of female plants by 20-25%... The characteristics acquired by the plants in electrically treated soils are transmitted by inheritance to the third generation..." [emphasis added] (82)

This is a form of manipulation:
Thge use of with acetasalicylic acid (aspirin) solution will help to feminize seeds


This is a form of manipulation:
Treatment of hempseed with ethylene gas will increase the resulting number of female plants by about 50%.

This is a form of manipulation:
Nitrogen fertilizers masculinize the phenotype by stimulating the formation of male flowers. The proportion, number and degree of monoecious plants increases with increasing N, and the total N content is always higher in monoecious individuals than it is in females. (79)



"The sexual expression of cannabis is determined by its genetic makeup, and by its metabolic temper, which is regulated by the male enzyme andrase and the female enzyme gynase. Environmental conditions (light, nutrients, soil and water) may suppress the formation of the dominant enzyme, and allow the opposite sex to express itself partially (hermaphroditism) or completely (sex reversal)."
Robert A. Nelson: Hemp Husbandry ~ Botany & Breeding (Ch 4)

If these are valid points, why wouln't you think that the original post had no merit.
 
nongreenthumb

nongreenthumb

Well-Known Member
I dont believe any of the points as anything more than old wives tales, if anything living has been given its sex, I doubt there would be anything you could do the change its sex, unless you change it to hermie.

You can give a person a sex change but they can never lose their original dna.
 
videoman40

videoman40

Well-Known Member
While a sex change is a bit more extreme than what we are talking about....
If you realize that a sex change is possible in humans, why would you find it so hard to believe that you can manipulate the odds a little into your favor, to get more females?


nongreenthumb said:
I dont believe any of the points as anything more than old wives tales, if anything living has been given its sex, I doubt there would be anything you could do the change its sex, unless you change it to hermie.

You can give a person a sex change but they can never lose their original dna.
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G

Godkas

Well-Known Member
Well my light scheduals have been all messed up lately we'll see if I get hermies when I flower.
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
videoman40 said:
While a sex change is a bit more extreme than what we are talking about....
If you realize that a sex change is possible in humans, why would you find it so hard to believe that you can manipulate the odds a little into your favor, to get more females?
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It's true that females prefer a certain type of environment to males but this does not stop either one surviving in each others. The argument it seems rests on what stage of the seed coming into being is it's sex determined.

If the cannabis seed follows every other type of life that i can think of (I accept there's going to be exceptions) then this process is developed within the mother. Plants are aware of their surroundings and this will determine the amount and ratio's of male and female seed produced. To my mind this is where the environment comes most into play, the treatment of the mother.

I'm not saying that you can't induce female behaviour in a male plant, or even make it produce female flowers. What I am saying is that this simply turns a male into a hermie, although I believe it is much easier to do the other way round.
 
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