Court Setback for Car Confiscations

Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
A Richmond ordinance allowing police to seize cars that are used to solicit prostitution or drug deals is unconstitutional because it doesn't entitle the owner to an early hearing to try to reclaim the car, a state appeals court ruled Wednesday.

The First District Court of Appeal in San Francisco noted, however, that it's unlikely to have the last word, because the California Supreme Court is getting ready to hear multiple constitutional challenges to a similar ordinance in Stockton. The high court's ruling will also affect vehicle forfeiture laws in Oakland and Los Angeles.

The Richmond ordinance, passed in January 2003, allows police to seize and sell any vehicle based on evidence that it was used to solicit prostitution or drugs, with the proceeds divided between police and the city attorney's office after lenders are repaid. Before the vehicle is permanently confiscated, the former owner is entitled to a jury trial on whether police had legal grounds for the seizure.

Contra Costa County Superior Court Judge Steven Austin overturned the ordinance in July 2005 on several grounds, including its distribution of the sale proceeds, which he found to be a conflict of interest for the police and city attorney.

The appeals court disagreed with Austin on that issue, but said the ordinance doesn't guarantee a hearing to the owner until after the police or prosecutor's office has filed a notice that the vehicle will be forfeited and sold, a period that could last as long as a year. The Constitution entitles an owner of seized property to a prompt hearing to challenge the legality of the seizure, said Presiding Justice Ignazio Ruvolo in the 3-0 ruling.


Webpage: RICHMOND / Court setback for car confiscations
Pubdate: Thu, 25 Jan 2007
Source: San Francisco Chronicle (CA)
Page: B - 4
Copyright: 2007 Hearst Communications Inc.
Contact: letters@sfchronicle.com
Website: SF Gate: San Francisco Chronicle
Author: Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Dankdude said:
A Richmond ordinance allowing police to seize cars that are used to solicit prostitution or drug deals is unconstitutional because it doesn't entitle the owner to an early hearing to try to reclaim the car, a state appeals court ruled Wednesday.

The First District Court of Appeal in San Francisco noted, however, that it's unlikely to have the last word, because the California Supreme Court is getting ready to hear multiple constitutional challenges to a similar ordinance in Stockton. The high court's ruling will also affect vehicle forfeiture laws in Oakland and Los Angeles.

The Richmond ordinance, passed in January 2003, allows police to seize and sell any vehicle based on evidence that it was used to solicit prostitution or drugs, with the proceeds divided between police and the city attorney's office after lenders are repaid. Before the vehicle is permanently confiscated, the former owner is entitled to a jury trial on whether police had legal grounds for the seizure.

Contra Costa County Superior Court Judge Steven Austin overturned the ordinance in July 2005 on several grounds, including its distribution of the sale proceeds, which he found to be a conflict of interest for the police and city attorney.

The appeals court disagreed with Austin on that issue, but said the ordinance doesn't guarantee a hearing to the owner until after the police or prosecutor's office has filed a notice that the vehicle will be forfeited and sold, a period that could last as long as a year. The Constitution entitles an owner of seized property to a prompt hearing to challenge the legality of the seizure, said Presiding Justice Ignazio Ruvolo in the 3-0 ruling.


Webpage: RICHMOND / Court setback for car confiscations
Pubdate: Thu, 25 Jan 2007
Source: San Francisco Chronicle (CA)
Page: B - 4
Copyright: 2007 Hearst Communications Inc.
Contact: letters@sfchronicle.com
Website: SF Gate: San Francisco Chronicle
Author: Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff
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Siezures, an illegal way to fund the police department. Why someone hasn't beaten this in the supreme court is beyond me. Do they actually have to catch you making a deal out of the car, or can they go to your house and just sieze what they want? What a country, cops rule, Literally!
 
Wavels

Wavels

Well-Known Member
The forfeiture laws are a flagrant abuse of due process. In many cases these laws produce gushers of cash for the insidious local government....

The founding fathers are spinning in their graves, as these laws trample citizens' rights with malign intent.

They could not suck more!
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Wavels said:
The forfeiture laws are a flagrant abuse of due process. In many cases these laws produce gushers of cash for the insidious local government....

The founding fathers are spinning in their graves, as these laws trample citizens' rights with malign intent.

They could not suck more!
Click to expand...
Can you just imagine a small town sheriff watching you drive your new Zo6 corvette around town, then stopping you, planting an oz. of coke on you, and taking your car. Then making the Zo6 the new police car, This could morph into taking your house, then the sheriff would be just like Mexican police, take what they want and fuck you! I wonder if this has been before the Supreme court. It seems like some rich dick would have been hasseled and taken it there. If they uphold this confiscatory law, in a word, we're fucked!
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Med sez ...

"If they uphold this confiscatory law, in a word, we're fucked!"

Med ... do you see anything contrary in your above statement and you being a champion of our progressive income tax system?

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Med ... do you see anything contrary in your above statement and you being a champion of our progressive income tax system?

No, one is a tax, the other is downright theft. I'll agree the tax system needs some changes, first they must get rid of the Fed, then make adjustments for wealth. I realize that you think Income Tax is theft and I think it a way to distribute wealth. Now here's my question: If we were to do away with the income tax, lets say that about 100 million people would do fine and live a very enriched life, what about the other 200 million. If you can come up with a fair tax plan that is all inclusive, ie. everyone will have adequate food, shelter, clothing, and a lifestyle that no-one would look down on, I'd like to hear it. Here is the dillema. I'm with the teach a man how to fish theory, there just aren't enough fish in the sea, the greedy corporations are cutting jobs by the thousands, 40 thousand at ford alone. There are not enough jobs to go around. I respect your intellect, so please advise me on how to solve the social problem without opening an auschwitz operation. Killing 200 million people so 100 million can have excellent lives just don't seem fair. Please be specific with your projections and figures, thank you in advance.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Ford may be laying off ... and for good reason ... poor management and labor union pressures. As Ford lays off, Honda and Toyota are opening plants in the U.S. ... and they are creating jobs through great managment and no union pressures.

On the tax system: You've asked me this question a couple of times now, and I've answered it every time. But here we go again:

The income tax is a tax on labor. It takes the choice away from the citizen and places it at the feet of the politicians. In other words, they decide how much of our labor is ours and how much is theirs.

A way around that would be to institute an excise tax on consumption. No audits, no confiscations, no murders at the hands of IRS agents ... and the best part of all ... freedom of choice for the individual.

To make the tax "fair," no tax on basic survival needs like food and medicine.

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
On the tax system: You've asked me this question a couple of times now, and I've answered it every time. But here we go again:

No, you've given vague answers and cannot show how your tax will support the needs of the Government and fund all programs, both social and structural. You have no comprehensive plan other than to do away with the income (Tax on Labor) tax. and institute some kind of excise tax. with a multi trillion dollar GNP,and a trillion dollar budget, you need a better plan!
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
if you can't fund the current gvnmnt with a fair tax then you have to cut it back. let it die off until it becomes a more lean and effective system.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
7xstall said:
"if you can't fund the current gvnmnt with a fair tax then you have to cut it back. let it die off until it becomes a more lean and effective system."
Click to expand...
Bingo! Now then Med ... please read 7x's quote 500 times without stopping. Thanks ...

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
7xstall said:
if you can't fund the current gvnmnt with a fair tax then you have to cut it back. let it die off until it becomes a more lean and effective system.
Click to expand...
So you still have no fucking plan. Would you like 200 million people to die off as well so you fucking elites can survive. Talk about class warfare, you guys are the epitome of class warfare, let them starve as long as you greedy assholes don't have to share any of your wealth, For shame. For shame, there are places reserved in hell for people like you, special places. Greed has taken over your lives and any semblance of Christianity has long evaporated. Like Bush, you preach the Christian way, and espouse class warfare against the poor. There'll be no going through the needle for you guys!
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
So you still have no fucking plan. Would you like 200 million people to die off as well so you fucking elites can survive. Talk about class warfare, you guys are the epitome of class warfare, let them starve as long as you greedy assholes don't have to share any of your wealth, For shame. For shame, there are places reserved in hell for people like you, special places. Greed has taken over your lives and any semblance of Christianity has long evaporated. Like Bush, you preach the Christian way, and espouse class warfare against the poor. There'll be no going through the needle for you guys!
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have you lost your fucking mind?

the gvnmnt programs enslave the poor and tell them that nothing is expected of them, these programs CAUSE them to suffer. the way our gvnmnt cozies up to those unions and suffocates the working class makes them suffer. you know good and fucking well that i want to raise the lowest denominator by ALLOWING working people like me and you to directly impact our communities instead of pawning off the task of getting people to work and putting food on the table to a beurocratic machine. which is more heartless med? you turn the taking care of PEOPLE over to a machine and then bitch at me when i suggest that turning war over to a machine is good.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
7xstall said:
]have you lost your fucking mind?[/COLOR]

the gvnmnt programs enslave the poor and tell them that nothing is expected of them, these programs CAUSE them to suffer. the way our gvnmnt cozies up to those unions and suffocates the working class makes them suffer. you know good and fucking well that i want to raise the lowest denominator by ALLOWING working people like me and you to directly impact our communities instead of pawning off the task of getting people to work and putting food on the table to a beurocratic machine. which is more heartless med? you turn the taking care of PEOPLE over to a machine and then bitch at me when i suggest that turning war over to a machine is good.
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I don't think so, You guys-Vi, Wavels, and 7x- talk shit all the time about what a great society this would be without the income tax, this war mongering government suites you fancy as long as they don't help the poor. You spout bullshit about how cutting off funding to the poor will free them so they can go get this amazing job (that doesn't exist) and move on up. I don't know what part of the country you live in, but it is obviously in some rich onclave where the real world doesn't seep in. I get tired of arguing with Blind fucking educated idiots that only see what they want and relegate everything else to the trash heap. You three plutocrats could care less about the human condition as long as your greedy needs are met. everytime you espouse cutting the income tax so you can keep what is rightly yours I feel like throwing up. To live in this society, you must pay dues. Not everyone can have the 100,000+ salaries, the corporations are cutting jobs, exporting them and replacing Americans with Illegals and that is allright with you, just cut you a break and reduce or remove the burden of taxation from the rich, talk about class warfare, you guys are pathetic human beings and quit trying to convince anyone of your Christian ethics, they are burried so far up your right wing asses they'll never see the light of day. When you look up the word hypocrite in the dictionary, there's a picture of you three guys
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Wavels said:
Your attribution of malicious intent is comical, indeed hysterical!
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There's nothing comical at all in my posts. I mean every word. You are a greedy asshole no more. no less. Every word you post shouts out that fact. you want to eliminate the only supply of money to the poor and talk crazy shit about the poor finding all these non-existent jobs to raise them up. Total insanity. There is nothing maliscious about my posts, just stating the obvious, you may be a nice guy to your rich friends, but to the rest of society you appear as selfish self centered assholes. I see guys like you every day at Barret Jackson auctions, more money than brains bidding car prices through the roof to impress your friends, look at me, I can pay ten times what the car is worth because I'm rich, well my friend, fuck you and all your rich friends, the day of retribution is coming, you will be judged on your deeds, not your rhetoric.
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
no one says we shouldn't get this country fixed and we all know that will take taxes. i am saying i would prefer to not throw money away on a broken system down the road. let's slash the gvnmnt down to it's purpose.

to transition the gvnmnt dependence of the poor the states need to manage the needs of the poor, news travels faster in states and bad politicians get tossed faster.

once they (politicians) get their pork laden hands into the FED $ they get entrenched and fester like tumors, they pander and sweet talk the desperate who will vote for anyone promising an easy out.

i was poor, i helped myself and i highly recommend my method to anyone contemplating accepting that first "hit" of gvnmnt help.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
7xstall said:
no one says we shouldn't get this country fixed and we all know that will take taxes. i am saying i would prefer to not throw money away on a broken system down the road. let's slash the gvnmnt down to it's purpose.

to transition the gvnmnt dependence of the poor the states need to manage the needs of the poor, news travels faster in states and bad politicians get tossed faster.

once they (politicians) get their pork laden hands into the FED $ they get entrenched and fester like tumors, they pander and sweet talk the desperate who will vote for anyone promising an easy out.

i was poor, i helped myself and i highly recommend my method to anyone contemplating accepting that first "hit" of gvnmnt help.
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This all sounds well and good, but not everyone is endowed with your ability, and even if they were, there are not enough opportunities to go around. Sure a few people climb out of poverty, but it is getting harder every day with the Greed by the corporations. If you are not in the top 10% of workers, you might find yourself on the side of the road. Vi himself has said that the way to success is to be in the top 10%, that my friend leaves 90% to the scrap pile or else my math is off! With jobs dissapearing faster than a strippers clothes, and the population growing faster than a viagra hard on, do the math, less jobs, more people. when I was young, finding a job was easy, I'd hate to go out in the job market today and look. Even Harvard grads are having a rough time unless they know someome
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
you talk greed but you ignore the fact that we have over 34,000 registered lobbyist in D.C. today. there were less than 100 just a few decades ago.


you want to further consolidate the power of politicians and in so doing you will dissolve the almost silent voice of the American people.

if you want to see greed, then you look at a politician who gives away favors and $ to get votes so his ego can flourish and so he can get a few more fake smiles and half ass handshakes at a $10,000 per plate fund raising dinner.

your philosophy fuels the parasitic gvnmnt which feeds on the efforts of corporations to provide to citizens with income and a means to prosper. more jobs can exist and American people can excel when we stop handing everything off to the gvnmnt. people are becoming lethargic and lazy because they feel hopeless, the gvnmnt is not the answer.

the gvnmnt drags us into conflict or it will turn an blind eye until something blows up, anything to get some votes and have that all important say so over the billions of tax $. we have given the gvnmnt too much already, we have to cut it back. use history to your advantage med!!!!
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
7xstall said:
you talk greed but you ignore the fact that we have over 34,000 registered lobbyist in D.C. today. there were less than 100 just a few decades ago.


you want to further consolidate the power of politicians and in so doing you will dissolve the almost silent voice of the American people.

if you want to see greed, then you look at a politician who gives away favors and $ to get votes so his ego can flourish and so he can get a few more fake smiles and half ass handshakes at a $10,000 per plate fund raising dinner.

your philosophy fuels the parasitic gvnmnt which feeds on the efforts of corporations to provide to citizens with income and a means to prosper. more jobs can exist and American people can excel when we stop handing everything off to the gvnmnt. people are becoming lethargic and lazy because they feel hopeless, the gvnmnt is not the answer.

the gvnmnt drags us into conflict or it will turn an blind eye until something blows up, anything to get some votes and have that all important say so over the billions of tax $. we have given the gvnmnt too much already, we have to cut it back. use history to your advantage med!!!!
Click to expand...
I also see government as an uncontrollable leviathon. The difference is, I see the corporations as the ones controlling government, (34,000 lobbiests). How many citizen lobbiests do we have, (0). The corporations are taking over the government, Hence a plutocracy. With Bushco wrangling for Kings rights, this is an evel scenario, far from the "founding Fathers" Ideals. When you right wing idiots call for constitutional government, you are really saying leave us rich guys the fuck alone. Look at New Orleans, 2/3 of the poor districts have not even been cleaned out, why, Because rich investors have a plan to bulldoze it and put in multimillion dollar homes! As soon as the homeowners get fed up with the hassels and figure out they'd be better off if they they sold for a song, or the banks reposses them, then will the cleanup (on the taxpayers dime) be started, probably by Haliburton on no-bid contracts. I just don't understand why it is clear as a bell to me and a few insightful people and you guys keep on drinking. This is the way of the world, the rich get richer and the poor get fucked!
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
they wouldn't have so many lobbyist in there if the politicians weren't taking the gifts, campaign money, trips to wherever. why do we allow politicians who whore out the gvnmnt to stay in power?

why do we keep voting in politicians who want to grow the gvnmnt even more with their programs and panels?

why do so many people turn their gvnmnt over to the lobbyist instead of writing letters and calling?

you want these people to distribute wealth and that's a great idea med, just great. i think they will definately help the middle class grow instead of creating a larger group of rich people to pander to...oh wait, that's what they have been working on all this time!! more policies, more programs, more laws, more regulations, more activist judges to grease the gears, more more more!!!

we are allowing ourselves to be seperated from the process. the gvnmnt turned the tables on us when the started calling us "consumers" and "customers"..."citizens" went out of style.

what does NO have to do with anything? those landowners don't have to sell, they can go do their own clean up, they can roll up their sleeves and start a movement and rebuild without the gvnmnt...why don't they approach a bank with their own development concept and become millionaires??? go show them what to do if you see something unfair happening.
 
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