Crazy guy publishes research saying LED is as efficient as HID for growing.

www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0099010

Could he be right? He also made a reddit thread about it. He also mentions they "didn't want to bash LEDs too much".

http://www.reddit.com/r/microgrowery/comments/27vq86/this_paper_is_a_little_technical_but_let_me_know/

Ugh try watt for watt about 40% or so more efficient if you know what you're doing. You'd be the crazy one. Lol I've got old HID buddies who like me scoffed at LED for years that are starting to or have already convertered from hps to led. Apache tech, area 51 and onyx are getting some Damn good results.

gk skunky said:

Ugh try watt for watt about 40% or so more efficient if you know what you're doing. You'd be the crazy one. Lol I've got old HID buddies who like me scoffed at LED for years that are starting to or have already convertered from hps to led. Apache tech, area 51 and onyx are getting some Damn good results.

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Dude, you are preaching to the whatyoucall it. I believe you, that's why I think that dude who wrote this paper is crazy. Reads like scienvertisment to me...

"Over the past 30 years, numerous longer-term studies with whole plants in higher light indicate that light quality has a much smaller effect on plant growth rate than lightquantity "

Interesting article..thanks!

ak84 said:

Dude, you are preaching to the whatyoucall it. I believe you, that's why I think that dude who wrote this paper is crazy. Reads like scienvertisment to me...

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Sorry poor choice of words. Meant it as a general term. Should have said they our whomever. LOL

Everyone is different but for my purposes even if HID was slightly better in terms of yield, the fact that LED is cooler & more efficient makes it the clear winner...funky LED & Mary J are clearly soul mates & have a great future together

gk skunky said:

Ugh try watt for watt about 40% or so more efficient if you know what you're doing. You'd be the crazy one. Lol I've got old HID buddies who like me scoffed at LED for years that are starting to or have already convertered from hps to led. Apache tech, area 51 and onyx are getting some Damn good results.

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I've check the Onyx web site several time over the last few months and they're always out of stock. Are they even still in business?

Positivity said:

"Over the past 30 years, numerous longer-term studies with whole plants in higher light indicate that light quality has a much smaller effect on plant growth rate than lightquantity "

Interesting article..thanks!

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wait a minute, i know this isn't your post positivity, you're just quoting they guy who wrote the article, but is he really trying to tell us that it's better to use a lot of light, even if it's all in the wrong spectrum and par for growing plants, then it is to use fewer lights, that are much better suited for growing, ie, right spectrum and par?? i would think i'd stop reading after i saw that, lol..

racerboy71 said:

wait a minute, i know this isn't your post positivity, you're just quoting they guy who wrote the article, but is he really trying to tell us that it's better to use a lot of light, even if it's all in the wrong spectrum and par for growing plants, then it is to use fewer lights, that are much better suited for growing, ie, right spectrum and par?? i would think i'd stop reading after i saw that, lol..

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I was going to say it was pretty good information for the last generation of led tech..all the red and blue panels. Then I checked the article date..June 2014. Not really relevant with the new efficient whites available.

That's why we weren't getting the results I think..hid was producing way more light. Not the best quality...but lots of it.

Now we can have both..right? Good spectrum and lots of light

Red1966 said:

I've check the Onyx web site several time over the last few months and they're always out of stock. Are they even still in business?

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Just call and talk to Mike I believe his name is. I think they are just shifting to more wholesale larger orders to stores and other distributors. Not positive though. But still in business and doing fine it sounds from my buddy dxe.

ak84 said:

www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0099010

Could he be right? He also made a reddit thread about it. He also mentions they "didn't want to bash LEDs too much".

http://www.reddit.com/r/microgrowery/comments/27vq86/this_paper_is_a_little_technical_but_let_me_know/

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Thanks for the link however he's not concluding that LED for grow lighting is more efficient than HPS. That statement would over reaching and easily dismissed as one could argue that to get higher quality finish buds with equal or near the weights of HPS it does take LED panel manufacturers ~75% of the wattage in RGB diodes to homogeneously blend the spectrums and intensities of an HPS for the same area coverage. There are responsibly documented side by side comparisons such as GG's last run with high quality LED panels verses 1000 watt HPS that bear this out. .

The most efficient HPS and LED fixtures have equal efficiencies, but the initial capital cost per photon delivered from LED fixtures is five to ten times higher than HPS fixtures.

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So while the author's conclusions are drawn on 'efficiencies' (and confusing PPF and PPFD - Figure 1 -Y axis) the reader/grower must ultimately decide on 'effectiveness'. If I am a greenhouse grower reading this as an economic analysis between LED and HID I leave with the distinct understanding that the price of an LED would never be justified since the cost is 5X that of current technology HID. Furthermore the following statement would give me cause me to dismiss any SSL system that would be installed in a greenhouse environment where efficiencies, effectiveness, and suitability to the environment (ie 3rd party verification) are a factor.

Replacement of individual LEDs is more expensive than replacing an HID lamp. The life expectancy of LEDs is reduced if they are driven by higher amperage to achieve a higher output, or exposed to high temperatures. Fixtures may be warmed by radiation from sunlight. The cooler the LED temperature, the longer they last. Power supplies, fans, and other components in LED fixtures can fail well before the LEDs themselves. Fan failure would increase LED temperature and may not be immediately noticed by the user. These components are replaceable, but the labor costs to change fixture components increases operating costs.

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I can hammer this paper on a dozen points (most notably the Gavita control approach which shuts the lights off because they run too hot...seriously) but I won't. Not criticizing this paper is tough since Bugbee is on record stating 'oh you pot growers with all your blue and red'....I'll take the position my papa advised in that 'if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all'.