Custom DIY LED panel help

Yeah lol, 7 grand is a bit out of my price range though I mean hell this cab is gonna take a while for me to get the funds together.

Looking at the PAR on it though, it looks like it should blow HPS out of the water.

Definitely agree with the lots to look forward to statement

A little update here for everyone, I have drawn up a little thing here of what I'd like the dresser to look like with everything in it.

The white box is the power supply, the panels on the side and top are gray, black boxes are 90mm fans, swirvy lines are power cords, the purple is the projected beam coming from the panel itself, and the red line is approx where I would like to place the scrog screen.

Comments/questions/opinions?
-crunk

So I was reviewing a bit of information I had read about LedEngin's 10w diodes, I looked into wattage and amps, and I actually found that using only 8 of these diodes would put out more light, more watts, and just a little bit more amperage. The luxeon panel was at 1.75A, and this panel will use only 2.1A. I also figure that using 8 diodes instead of 30, I'll get more heat dissipation from having more spacing between diodes. They'll have a couple of inches each I'd imagine, as opposed to 1 for the luxeons. And again, I'll have the fans to cool the panel.

I've also found that with the LedEngin, they put out lots of light(90+% even above 35°C). So I don't think I'll have any problems with temperatures and whatnot. Also with the 10w diodes they don't have lens that are narrow like I want. So what I'll have to do is drop down the panel 6-8 inches above the canopy to avoid losing light to the inverse square law.

Another big factor to the switch is simply money. I'll be able to get 8 of these 10w for about 30 bucks less than the luxeons. Also, I can't get optics for them so that's another 50 bucks saved. So instead of paying ~$450 for the luxeons, I'll be paying ~$350 for this setup. I think it's a great trade-off.

Also, another benefit is that if any of these LEDs do fail, worst case scenario is that I lose 1-2 LEDs instead of 5. Easier to figure out problems if they do occur.

The picture attached pretty much explains everything.

And if anyone is curious about how much these LEDs are, it's $24.65 for the Reds, and $29 for the blue.

Last thing I'd like to mention is that each one of these 10w diodes has 4 chips in it. So I'll have 2 more chips in total than the other panel. And I'll have more watts coming out, as well as lumens. And all for LESS $$$!!!! Can't go wrong with that

Here's the pic:

So I was checking up on the prices of everything getting ready to make a final decision for better or worse...and I found out the distributor for the LEDs I wanted bumped them up 3 dollars a piece!!! So I'd be paying 24 more dollars now. I was thinking to myself, there's gotta be some way around this setback. So I found a different manufacturer selling the same LEDs. It was at this point that I began looking into the different shades of white LEDs. After reviewing the data sheets for both warm and cool white I made a discovery that I hadn't known before. The warm white have lots of colors between 500nm-650nm, there are wavelengths that go past that 650, and into about 740nm(IR), but there isn't as much. I also noticed that there is a very minute amount underneath 400nm(UV). So it would seem that using just warm white LEDs should be capable of flowering. They have nearly every spectrum between 400nm and 830nm. The amounts are more in the red/yellow region than the blue or UV, but that's typical of a warm white LED.

Next I looked into the cool white. I found out they have the SAME exact blue spectrum amounts as a blue LED. Along with wavelengths between 480nm and 730nm. It seems that the cool white have a little bit more UV coverage than the warm whites, and a little less of the yellow/red spectrum. This is normal. It occurred to me that using blue LEDs in ANY LED application is POINTLESS!!
The cool white LEDs have the SAME amount of blue spectrum in them, and more spectrums in different colors. Granted, most of the light falls between green/yellow, but it also covers UV and IR. I suspect that on some level, the more wavelengths you have for the plant, the more it will thrive.

Because of these new finding to me, I decided to look into using my panel with JUST white LEDs. I discovered that each LED, no matter warm or cool, operates at 14v and .7A. This causes a little snag in my design. If I used 6 warms and 2 cools, I would be wayy over the output voltage from my power supply. 14v * 3 diodes = 52v. I didn't think changing my power supply was a good idea, so I cut down 2 of the warm LEDs. Now I will have 3 sets of 2 LEDs each. Fortunately, with the increase of voltage on the warm whites, removing 2 of them didn't change the wattage of the LED panel at all. It will still be under 60 watts. The good news is that lumens will increase as well. This is very beneficial since the LEDs cover the same spectrums as the blue and red. All in all, I took out 2 LEDs(minus 60 bucks), wattage stayed the same, light output increased, and I'm gaining more important wavelengths. I think this will be a very good experiment to see if the white LEDs will flower just as well as the single color LEDs.

Here's the new design, and how I plan on setting up the dresser.

How about some pics of what ya got so far!

Haha, well at this stage I'm still planning so I don't have much to take a pic of yet

I'm thinking about going with the 40w diodes, but the only problem is they don't sell them the way I need them, MCPCB serially connected.

As for the dresser, I'm going to wait till about 2 weeks before my current grow is finished before starting it. So it may take a month or so before things will really get going, but I will surely post pictures of everything I'm doing as I go. Thanks for the interest

Mad props for the research you're doing here crunk. I've been looking for an LED grow light for so long but always thinking that it would be way better to just make one. I'll definitely be giving this a shot when I have the time and funds to do so. Excellent posts, this info is pure GOLD!

Thanks man that says a lot If there's anything you wanna ask about makin your own LED setup let me know.

I've actually got an update here that I've just been too lazy to post. I was looking around youtube looking at custom made LED units and I found one with a Bridgelux BXRA-C4500, has a typical luminous flux of 5000 lumens! I immediately changed my design to power just this one single single highpowered unit. If you want to see the potential click here.

I'm not really sure how I found this to be perfectly honest, just browsing around the web and youtube I guess; but I discovered that these LEDs are similar to computer parts in that they're semiconductors. Well there's 2 main ways every computer deals with heat, air cooling or water cooling. For now I think I'm going to go with air cooling just for simplicity, and sometime in the future I'm going to look into large scale for these LEDs with water cooling. To put it in perspective, each of these LEDs is about 53 watts. My water cooling strategy is going to be 2 of these LEDs on a hard-drive waterblock, and have 3 or 4 of them. The cool white version puts out typically 5000 lumens and the warm white puts out 3400 lumens.

Now imagine 3 waterblocks with 2 LEDs each on it. I would use 4 warm white(to support flowering, and 2 cool white(for sheer brightpower). The math on light output: 2* 5000 + 4*3400 = 10000 + 13600 = 23600 lumens. At 53w an LED, 6* 53 = 318w. So 318w for 23,600 lumens, with a majority of the spectrum in the red section. Also keep in mind, I will need a decent sized pump to manage all of these LEDs, but with watercooling you will see NO heat on your plants. Water is way better than air in dissipating heat. It's just simple physics I think, haha. Another point that I would like to make, is that this custom made watercooled LED unit will only be 12" x 17". To put it briefly, this is just barely over 1 square foot. If it isn't already obvious, that's tiny lol. The only problem with the setup that I'm finding, is that it's SUPER expensive! Each waterblock is roughly 55 bucks, each LED averages about 71 bucks, the pump is going to be costly, and lastly I'll need a big radiator and fan to cool the water off. Oh and a BIG power supply, maybe a multiple output or something, I still have to look around. But simply put, the power supply must be capable of 27v and 12.6A. Each LED is rated for 25.4v and 2.1A. That's a lot of juice for those who don't know anything about electricity. So this grand idea is going to cost me prolly 800 bucks I'm imagining. I'm hoping this will create the most heatfree, powerful, quiet light in existence though!

Now about the plan I have for short term: Like I mentioned earlier there are 2 ways to cool something, water and air. For this first prototype of my use with these LEDs I'll be going with air to keep it simple and cheap to start. The heatsink I found is pretty much the only that's capable to surface mount a diode of this size. This LED is 49mm x 49mm. Most of them are 32mm x 32mm. Fortunately for me, this air cooled fixture is 52mm x 52mm. The good thing about this is that it completely covers the back of the LED. Another thing I would like to mention is that I'll be using a diamond based thermal paste to mount these LEDs to both the air cooled unit and the waterblocks. Interestingly enough, diamonds are the highest thermal conductor, outweighing aluminum and copper by far. This will increase thermal transfer rate, so less heat is at the LED. Because of LEDs design, the cooler they run the better. This air cooled unit I found is rated for 28dB(hardly noisy, even for adept ears). I also found a few reviews for this unit, and supposedly it can dissipate 85w of power with only 10degree C increase above ambient. This means that my LED will be cool for it's entire life in my setup, and it will also create no sound once in my box and mounted properly! The only thing one needs for a setup like this first one, is the high powered LED, the heatsink(this case a cpu heatsink for computers), and a constant current(2.1A in this case) power supply. I estimate 160 bucks for this unit. Will draw 55w and put out 5000 lumens. In a little dresser decked out with mylar, you can imagine how bright this little sucker would be!

I really like the idea of making a water cooled light. A good long term project -_-

Could you restate what components you plan on using for your short term solution? (not the water cooled dream light)

Also, you've probably seen this but... http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5876
Could get 100W of LED for $99. Someone claims that those LEDs are actually 20W as well... check the reviews.

Don't use those cheap foreign LEDs. Without data sheets NEVER purchase a high powered LED. You don't know what current that diode is rated for, so you can't buy a power supply until you know. That's one of the most needed components, so choosing the right one is essential. I will be using Bridgelux LEDs in the rest of my custom made light career, because they're the best lumen/$ LEDs on the market, they have the strongest reliable diodes, and because they're made here in the USA. Here's a site showing how bright the smaller bridgelux models are. I will be using a diode even larger than those listed on that site.

Here's the components to my air cooled design:
1x Bridgelux LED
1x 27v, 2.3A Power supply
1x Heatsink with fan
1x Thermal paste
And of course 14 gauge wire to hook this all up, also will need one AC plug, multimeter, etc, simple electronics items.

I estimate cost to be around 180 dollars with electronic gizmos; I still need to get multimeter, and everything mentioned.

A little update here for everyone:
I have since finished up my LED/CFL scrog, and I'm extremely happy about what I have, although I know I can get more dense buds
Since my LED panels are free now I have done a little experimentation with them and my dresser that I plan on converting.

I do however have some questions though if anyone would like to lend a hand or some advice. My dresser, unfortunately was built fairly rigid. Only because of age has it started to show signs of wear and abuse. I'm not sure what kind of wood it is, but I plan on taking the back off and replacing it with 3/4" particle board. It's fairly cheap and should hold up good. I plan on cutting the wood off the drawers, and then mounting all of the pieces on another piece of particle board. I will have to find some way to show what I mean without words. It's kinda hard to explain otherwise.

The problem I am running into is I'm not sure what kind of saw to use to cut off the wood from the drawer, and I'm having a time trying to find something with a table or circle saw that will be able to cut down the huge sheet of particle board to appropriate size. I still have to take down all the measurements and show what I mean, so that task will be next.

My question for everyone here: is there a cheaper solution to using particle board? I can get a 4ft by 8ft sheet for 12 bucks, but I'll need to spend at least 50 for a circular saw which I would rather not have to do, to keep this as cheap as possible. I just can't think of anything else that would help seal light, and also be sturdy enough to mount things on, power supplies, power strips, etc etc.

As a side note: I am now an employed man, so this project should be getting underway more on the soon side than later

places like home depot will cut it to size for you for a lot less than $50, buy the sheet of wood give them your measurements and walla

(some places do it for free)

Me I have a 24 volt cordless Black & decker set that has a drill, a circular saw, a jigsaw, and a sawsall, got it at lowes for $99 cause it was demo'd on the shelf and was missing the flashlight that came with it

Wow riddleme that's absolutely a score!! Some of the better saws I was looking at were $99 just for the circular saw. The only thing I'm concerned about is that I'm told often that the blades on lots of saws aren't thick enough to cut the board. I have not visited home depot, but I'm thinking maybe I ought to tomorrow or something. We'll see if they can cut all of the sizes I need(3 boards total). I will need to measure my dresser again to get the perfect lengths.

I'll post pics whenever I get to measuring everything without messing up. A job best left sober

Ok, first of all - how are you getting free LED panels? =)

Second - I wouldn't recommend particle board. It's cheap for a reason =) Just get some luan board 3/8" thick maybe even 1/4" thick. It will be lighter and more durable... probably just as inexpensive.
Then get some caulking to seal the inside corners of everything. This will guarantee no light leaks and also help with smell, if that's a concern for you.

Lastly, I know exactly what you're saying about removing all the wood from the drawers and making all the front drawer panels into one piece. I just did the same thing.

Good luck!

PS. Have you found an spectrum graphs of "white light" from LEDs in your travels? I know that it's primarily blue... And what have you found for deep red LEDs?

First off, the panels weren't free, nothing is free these days haha. I paid 100 for them including shipping. I scored since they retail for at least 45 for 1. They really aren't worth the money, but I figure since I bought them I may as well use them. Plus 4 fit into my dresser quite nicely as you can see

I'll have to look into luan board. As far as durability goes, it won't actually have to hold any weight besides a couple of fans and my carbon scrubber. I'm not too concerned with it being weak anyways. I will have to get some caulking and seal everything up good. I want this as quiet and smell free as possible. The girlfriend doesn't like whizzing or whirling sounds from the fans and light leaks. Smell is not a problem at all for me, but I wouldn't want any guests to be able to tell.

I'm really interested in how you did that with your drawers, care to elaborate or post some pictures of what you did? I have found that my drawers are extremely durable on the front side. Unfortunately they didn't build the bottom of the drawer very good so some of my drawers don't work as intended. I'd really like to see what you did and how hard it was.

As for the spectral graphs, they are on the data sheets for the LED I'm using. It shows both warm white and cool white spectrums. I'll attach the file for ya can see for yourself. The graphs are on page 13. I actually haven't found anything for deep red(660nm). The only mfg that I know of that sells them is LedEngin. If you look at the warm white version, you can see there is a fair amount of that spectrum and more going closer to IR. The problem I have with colored LEDs is that it's a specific peak in light at that exact spectrum. It is my belief that plants like the full spectrum, as the sun is full spectrum. Plus, with white LEDs you have a much higher concentration of photons, because more spectrums of light are being emitted. Because of this you get higher lumens, PAR, and a much brighter light. The only problem with cool white LEDs is that the rendering index on them isn't as good as the warm whites.

So basically it's high lumens, low CRI(cool white) vs lower lumens, high CRI(warm white). The Color Rendering Index is simply how crisp or clean the light appears. I don't know if it translates to anything special for plants or not, so I may need to do a bit more research.

One thing that I would like to point out before the end of my post, is that different mfgs fabricate LEDs differently. The spectral graphs for one type of LED may be completely different from a different kind of LED; say CREE LEDs vs Luxeon LEDs. It really depends on the manufacturer there. In most cases there will be data sheets that show the spectral output(if they don't show the graphs, DO NOT waste your time with them!!!!).

*EDIT* I would like to add that where I live, I will not be able to have the store or anyone else cut the board. They just don't do that here unfortunately. I will have to find a way to do it myself. My last question is: what does luan board look like? Aesthetics won't matter too much to me, but durability is definitely something I need!

Here's the link to the data sheets as it was too big to upload: CLICK HERE

Hi - Nice thread. This link goes to 9 different 660nm red LED's.
http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=1000101+5223378+173094+173060+173028+173000+172943+172891+172838+172814&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_US&catalogId=&prevNValues=1000101+5223378&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&originalQueryURL=/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=1000101&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_US&catalogId=&prevNValues=1000101
Hi riddleme - see you in a few days.

Hey Fun, yeah looking forward to it

and to Crunk, this guy knows things like I do

also is that pronounced fanatic????I like the kc part

also know you need 10 post to activate private messaging

Thanks for pointing that out funatfkc could you show me links to surface mount diodes in the 660 now?

I've seen tons of those little diodes but I don't think they're good for much of anything, they simply aren't intense enough, no matter how many zillions you have. But this is my biased belief. What we really need is a surface mount diode that's capable of putting out 50x what those 5mm LEDs do. I guess the farther you go from the normal spectrum, the harder it is to fabricate LEDs. For example, a 5w LedEngin red led is like 10 bucks, UV of the same power...32 bucks. Same goes for IR, but they don't really make those either. It's just too expensive at this stage in the game.

Glad to have ya aboard fun I hope I can get as much advice out of you as riddle has helped me!

To all the onlookers: I will get paid the friday after this coming up one. I will be ordering everything that same night. It's likely that it will be about 3 weeks before it begins, in which time I hope to have my dresser completed...stay tuned...

dont even mess with UV ( UVB is the one you want ) LED I already went through the mess of trying to source some appropriate for growing and they were like $2500 for each LED ( think they have a bunch of medical uses thats why the price is so high ). IR is kind of a waste too. Best to use a CFL reptile UVB light in conjunction with LED ( when flowering ).

hmm...

It is ok to hand solder luxeons or CREE's, I have done it for my 3w LEDs on my home made panel. this is simply a recommendation and certainly not critical to the life of the LED. The LED modules themselves are actually very tolerant to heat and static tolerating up to 40kV static surges.

I wouldn't recommend using 10mm LEDs on their own, they simply do not deliver enough power. I am currently trialling my 150w LED panel I made myself using 3w high power modules. And in the next 2 months I will be trialling a home made 300w panel.

Also, to clear up confusion, LED's do get hot and resistors get hot too, resistors also resist less current once hot and can overdrive LEDs. High power modules, 1-3w LED's require a constant current source to run correctly typically called a driver. It is alot cheaper to build your own high power LED driver to run alot of LED's in series. The cheapest method is to buy single controllers from eBay that only drive 1 high power LED. The rating are lower mind you, being 650ma instead of the rated 700ma for 3 watt LEDs and 300ma instead of 350ma for 1 watt LEDs.

Also alot more wiring is needed with single controllers but a lower DC input voltage can be used. My panel uses controllers that run 6 x 3 watt LEDs in series. with the Blue LEDs needing 3.2V each times 6 I require a minimum of 20V DC to run them effectively, although LEDs have a reverse voltage tolerance of -5V I dont recommend doing it.

Anyway, best of luck with your LED only grow. I will be introducing neutral and warm white LEDs on my next design to try and boost flowering, My veg period was fantastic, I had zero stretching, in fact they were a bit short! take a look at my signature for info.

- Slix