CXB3590 1500W

nogod_ · Dec 14, 2015

Your 1080w lamp drops 605 par watts on your canopy.
My 1080w lamp drops 680 par watts on my canopy.

You're hoping to get 1.6gpw. How much more herb do you think I'm going to going to get from my +75 par watts?

I don't know where you live. Going rate here is $6-7/g. It's also .19/kwh.

How long do you think it's going to take me to make up that $800?

ttystikk said:
In direct electrical consumption costs? Forever! In terms of a yield increase, that's dicier, because you won't get 7% more yield, at best you'd move one bar up the PPfd chart, a very small incremental increase. For twice the money in chips it just doesn't seem worth it, even when considering years for amortization.

This becomes a more immediate concern when dealing with the heat. Lower HVAC operating costs are where most of the power savings will actually come from.

Which leads me right back to a question I asked last night; how does one calculate performance changes due to chip temperature?

Just for grins, what would happen in terms of efficiency if we could run a chip super soft AND keep it really cool, like 70°f or even cooler?

ttystikk · Dec 14, 2015

nogod_ said:
Your 1080w lamp drops 605 par watts on your canopy.
My 1080w lamp drops 680 par watts on my canopy.

You're hoping to get 1.6gpw. How much more herb do you think I'm going to going to get from my +75 par watts?

I don't know where you live. Going rate here is $6-7/g. It's also .19/kwh.

How long do you think it's going to take me to make up that $800?

A couple of crops, as long as that price per gram keeps up...

I like your numbers, they definitely help clarify things.

2ANONYMOUS · Dec 15, 2015

ttystikk said:
Right?! He came barging into my thread talking shit just the other day.

At least he's consistent- he has no credibility left with ANYONE! LOL

First of all SPL i apologize for some reason it appears i got some followers licking my ass

But for this twit guy Of course i did you posting non sense pulling what ??? 26 oz something ridiculous like that .. dude or mam WTF keep sitting in your high chair and keep thinking you pulled that cause Anyone that has grown or got 26 oz dry can surely tell you that is no 26 oz dry
Cause truthfully speaking then what we should be seeing in that picture is 84 oz wet Or here put it another way ..
5 pounds wet .... Good Fucking luck buddy And i do not know what your smoking??? And Bubblegum lol ironic i grew that stuff 6 years ago Seriously indoor and out door ..

You know that is the sad thing about sites like this its great when people are spreading good stuff and yield numbers at a honest number ,, then you got the dark side of the grow forums with people feeding shit claiming stupid numbers doing stupid things and thinking there some Jedi grower

So i got the Balls to call someone on there numbers and it looks like i am the asshole lol
but like i said someone mentions or shows A PLANT states yeah i got this no dried bud shots or bagged product from it in my mind told the whole story there ,, See when most people do a journal not only do they show plants they show trimmed buds , and dried bud shots but not you haha

Anyways Here all check out the plant its suppose to be 5 pounds worth of wet bud or 84 oz wet
and 26 oz dry
Sorry Twits you should be Banned stating that nonsense , gives this site a bad name that plant trimmed would not fill a 4 x 4 drying screen and that usually is 1.5 pounds dry with many strains
Geez

ttystikk · Dec 15, 2015

2ANONYMOUS said:
First of all SPL i apologize for some reason it appears i got some followers licking my ass

But for this twit guy Of course i did you posting non sense pulling what ??? 26 oz something ridiculous like that .. dude or mam WTF keep sitting in your high chair and keep thinking you pulled that cause Anyone that has grown or got 26 oz dry can surely tell you that is no 26 oz dry
Cause truthfully speaking then what we should be seeing in that picture is 84 oz wet Or here put it another way ..
5 pounds wet .... Good Fucking luck buddy And i do not know what your smoking??? And Bubblegum lol ironic i grew that stuff 6 years ago Seriously indoor and out door ..

You know that is the sad thing about sites like this its great when people are spreading good stuff and yield numbers at a honest number ,, then you got the dark side of the grow forums with people feeding shit claiming stupid numbers doing stupid things and thinking there some Jedi grower

So i got the Balls to call someone on there numbers and it looks like i am the asshole lol
but like i said someone mentions or shows A PLANT states yeah i got this no dried bud shots or bagged product from it in my mind told the whole story there ,, See when most people do a journal not only do they show plants they show trimmed buds , and dried bud shots but not you haha

Anyways Here all check out the plant its suppose to be 5 pounds worth of wet bud or 84 oz wet
and 26 oz dry
Sorry Twits you should be Banned stating that nonsense , gives this site a bad name that plant trimmed would not fill a 4 x 4 drying screen and that usually is 1.5 pounds dry with many strains
Geez View attachment 3564810

Yep, that's my plant. Yep, it pulled 26 1/4.

Aaaaaaaand yep- YOU'RE STILL BUTTHURT ABOUT IT!

BWAHAHAHA! Go whine to someone else, ya stoopid keyboard sniveller!! @SupraSPL won't believe your line of shit, either!

REALSTYLES · Dec 15, 2015

ttystikk said:
Yep, that's my plant. Yep, it pulled 26 1/4.

Aaaaaaaand yep- YOU'RE STILL BUTTHURT ABOUT IT!

BWAHAHAHA! Go whine to someone else, ya stoopid keyboard sniveller!! @SupraSPL won't believe your line of shit, either!

What do mean line of shit? Please ellaborate. @2ANONYMOUS Nice looking outdoor plant what strain is it?

ttystikk · Dec 15, 2015

REALSTYLES said:
What do mean line of shit? Please ellaborate. @2ANONYMOUS Nice looking outdoor plant what strain is it?

Hey real, that's MY plant, it was grown indoors and he's been shitposting me because of some misguided personal crusade to root out liars on pot forums... only he's as wrong about me as he is with damn near every other piece of advice he's given, on every thread he's commented on.

REALSTYLES · Dec 15, 2015

ttystikk said:
Hey real, that's MY plant, it was grown indoors and he's been shitposting me because of some misguided personal crusade to root out liars on pot forums... only he's as wrong about me as he is with damn near every other piece of advice he's given, on every thread he's commented on.

Great job how long did you veg? And what strain is it?

ttystikk · Dec 15, 2015

REALSTYLES said:
Great job how long did you veg? And what strain is it?

Veg for three months from fresh cutting, it's the ISS bubblegum, I think, from the description. Grown under- okay, BESIDE, lol- 860W CDM lamps on magnetic ballasts. My best guess is about 450PPfd, 30W/ft².

Once my COBs are in place, I think I should be able to hit the 1.5gpw mark fairly easily. That would be 2#10z, or only one pound more than the plant above. Getting a three pounder will be a challenge, but I'm sure it's possible.

BOBBY_G · Dec 15, 2015

Hi everybody, long time lurker, first post.

fascinated by this thread. been using commercial red and blue led fixtures (CLW and Kind) with excellent results.

Some amazing DIYs in here, was searching ebay for parts and came across this setup:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/225-Watt-Cree-3590-Meanwell-Led-Grow-Light-/181963341668?hash=item2a5ddc3f64:g:CV4AAOSwZ1lWcO0r

not too shabby, looks like the typical chinese housing, but built with 4x cxb3590s+meanwell (notice this is EXACTLY the same as Supra's 56.3% efficient setup on page 2, dude prob borrowed it.)

in any case its $475 shipped vs $326 in parts for Supra's design, so its not ridiculously taxed. I'm busy and cant see me putting something together this elegant with the limited time i have, so the price seems reasonable. Thoughts? are Supra's prices from July old news? what other preferred vendors do you guys use? Digikey looks to be $65/COB. Who is Jerry and how do i find him?

Any other reason why I wouldnt want to buy the already assembled unit?

I see i can also buy my own 1-cob housing here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-DE-CA-Stock-Reflector-Cup-200w-Led-Grow-Light-Kits-for-Plant-Hydroponics-Lamp-/191759628436?hash=item2ca5c3b894:g:SNYAAOSw9r1V~7-N

i dont see any 4-bangers but i would imagine $100 or more for those, so its a wash on parts trying to DIY

BOBBY_G · Dec 16, 2015

also has anyone watercooled these using the off the shelf gamer liquid cooling CPU rigs?

http://www.newegg.com/Water-Liquid-Cooling/SubCategory/ID-575

the blocks themselves are cheap as heck:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminium-Water-Cooling-Heatsink-Block-Waterblock-Liquid-CoolerFor-CPU-GPU-IM/111768961156?_trksid=p2045573.c100506.m3226&_trkparms=aid=555014&algo=PL.DEFAULT&ao=1&asc=20150817211709&meid=36f8140da1634cdfb01e50c8f74a79ff&pid=100506&rk=1&rkt=1&

i see stephens efficiency comparisons using the cree tool on the previous page, but
is there a lower temp range that the COBs dont like? from a more practical perspective stick a fatty waterblock on an otherwise 'passive' large heatsink with LEDs mounted to it and temps would stay pretty stable.....

zep_lover · Dec 16, 2015

BOBBY_G said:
Hi everybody, long time lurker, first post.

fascinated by this thread. been using commercial red and blue led fixtures (CLW and Kind) with excellent results.

Some amazing DIYs in here, was searching ebay for parts and came across this setup:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/225-Watt-Cree-3590-Meanwell-Led-Grow-Light-/181963341668?hash=item2a5ddc3f64:g:CV4AAOSwZ1lWcO0r

not too shabby, looks like the typical chinese housing, but built with 4x cxb3590s+meanwell (notice this is EXACTLY the same as Supra's 56.3% efficient setup on page 2, dude prob borrowed it.)

in any case its $475 shipped vs $326 in parts for Supra's design, so its not ridiculously taxed. I'm busy and cant see me putting something together this elegant with the limited time i have, so the price seems reasonable. Thoughts? are Supra's prices from July old news? what other preferred vendors do you guys use? Digikey looks to be $65/COB. Who is Jerry and how do i find him?

Any other reason why I wouldnt want to buy the already assembled unit?

I see i can also buy my own 1-cob housing here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-DE-CA-Stock-Reflector-Cup-200w-Led-Grow-Light-Kits-for-Plant-Hydroponics-Lamp-/191759628436?hash=item2ca5c3b894:g:SNYAAOSw9r1V~7-N

i dont see any 4-bangers but i would imagine $100 or more for those, so its a wash on parts trying to DIY

the spread on that light is not very good.it doesnt say what kind of heat sink is used either

bassman999 · Dec 16, 2015

BOBBY_G said:
Hi everybody, long time lurker, first post.

fascinated by this thread. been using commercial red and blue led fixtures (CLW and Kind) with excellent results.

Some amazing DIYs in here, was searching ebay for parts and came across this setup:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/225-Watt-Cree-3590-Meanwell-Led-Grow-Light-/181963341668?hash=item2a5ddc3f64:g:CV4AAOSwZ1lWcO0r

not too shabby, looks like the typical chinese housing, but built with 4x cxb3590s+meanwell (notice this is EXACTLY the same as Supra's 56.3% efficient setup on page 2, dude prob borrowed it.)

in any case its $475 shipped vs $326 in parts for Supra's design, so its not ridiculously taxed. I'm busy and cant see me putting something together this elegant with the limited time i have, so the price seems reasonable. Thoughts? are Supra's prices from July old news? what other preferred vendors do you guys use? Digikey looks to be $65/COB. Who is Jerry and how do i find him?

Any other reason why I wouldnt want to buy the already assembled unit?

I see i can also buy my own 1-cob housing here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-DE-CA-Stock-Reflector-Cup-200w-Led-Grow-Light-Kits-for-Plant-Hydroponics-Lamp-/191759628436?hash=item2ca5c3b894:g:SNYAAOSw9r1V~7-N

i dont see any 4-bangers but i would imagine $100 or more for those, so its a wash on parts trying to DIY

Thats a great deal, only Issue I see is the close proximity of the obs to each other.
I placed high enough from the tops of plants I think it will work great

SupraSPL · Dec 16, 2015

I am guessing that lamp mentioned above is using CPU coolers and generic 1.4A drivers. If they are genuine CREE, decent drivers, decently cooled and you had enough vertical space to get that light to spread out, that light would probably do a very good job. You might want to inspect the quality of the wiring to make sure it is as safe as possible.

@ttystikk Regarding running soft and how it affects PPFD, running your COBs lower can allow you to achieve higher intensity and more evenly spread PPFD, if that is your design goal. (as @nogod_ mentioned) It is somewhat complex to determine that actual cost of each system. When you run soft it takes less drivers and less heatsink to get the same job done, so that reduces some of the extra cost of buying more COBs. There are the direct electrical savings and that depends on the cost of electricity where you are. It may open the door to using passive cooling if that appeals to you and that implies remote drivers and increased heatsink adjustability. It may open the door to a partially solar powered grow. It may be ideal for grows that are limited on vertical space or shelf systems.

Because of the reduction in heat, depending on your setup there may also be direct electrical savings in environmental/AC cost But the most compelling advantage is, can you increase your total yield by reducing your heat load? If so then the extra cost of high efficiency can pay for itself in days (as @nogod_ described) . That is why I run the COBs at 730mA (25W ea) or lower when dimmed. That said, there is some uncertainty about exactly how much efficiency we are really getting. When I tested current droop I did see efficiency improvements all the way down to 4W per COB, but when I tried to quantify I realized the droop curve is compressed compared to CREEs so the values are not absolute after all.

So if you do run them at 25W ea or lower, it might be best to approach that as experimental. That is why I recommend most DIYers to run them at ~50W ea.

SupraSPL · Dec 16, 2015

How much heat does it actually save, in this 4X8 example:
750 PPFD setup with 50W COBs, 505 W draw, 262W waste heat
750 PPFD setup with 25W COBs, 447 W power draw, 202W waste heat

23% reduction in heat to get the same job done.

bassman999 · Dec 16, 2015

SupraSPL said:
How much heat does it actually save, in this 4X8 example:
750 PPFD setup with 50W COBs, 505 W draw, 262W waste heat
750 PPFD setup with 25W COBs, 447 W power draw, 202W waste heat

23% reduction in heat to get the same job done.

It can go the other way as well. As n my case with running cobs in a small area during the winter.
I am reversing my exhaust fan to be an intake to shed the heat from cobs on to canopy to achieve a normal canopy temp. I am running a dehumidifier to raise temps in the grow area currently

SupraSPL · Dec 16, 2015

bassman999 said:
It can go the other way as well. As n my case with running cobs in a small area during the winter.
I am reversing my exhaust fan to be an intake to shed the heat from cobs on to canopy to achieve a normal canopy temp. I am running a dehumidifier to raise temps in the grow area currently

That is a good point, I figure if you have excess "free" cooling capacity during winter, might as well scale it up if your situation allows :leaf:

bassman999 · Dec 16, 2015

SupraSPL said:
That is a good point, I figure if you have excess "free" cooling capacity during winter, might as well scale it up if your situation allows

This is a problem I prefer over the way around, Just lets me add more cobs, and I have a pair on the way

organic-fanatic · Dec 16, 2015

SupraSPL said:
I am guessing that lamp mentioned above is using CPU coolers and generic 1.4A drivers. If they are genuine CREE, decent drivers, decently cooled and you had enough vertical space to get that light to spread out, that light would probably do a very good job. You might want to inspect the quality of the wiring to make sure it is as safe as possible.

@ttystikk Regarding running soft and how it affects PPFD, running your COBs lower can allow you to achieve higher intensity and more evenly spread PPFD, if that is your design goal. (as @nogod_ mentioned) It is somewhat complex to determine that actual cost of each system. When you run soft it takes less drivers and less heatsink to get the same job done, so that reduces some of the extra cost of buying more COBs. There are the direct electrical savings and that depends on the cost of electricity where you are. It may open the door to using passive cooling if that appeals to you and that implies remote drivers and increased heatsink adjustability. It may open the door to a partially solar powered grow. It may be ideal for grows that are limited on vertical space or shelf systems.

Because of the reduction in heat, depending on your setup there may also be direct electrical savings in environmental/AC cost But the most compelling advantage is, can you increase your total yield by reducing your heat load? If so then the extra cost of high efficiency can pay for itself in days (as @nogod_ described) . That is why I run the COBs at 730mA (25W ea) or lower when dimmed. That said, there is some uncertainty about exactly how much efficiency we are really getting. When I tested current droop I did see efficiency improvements all the way down to 4W per COB, but when I tried to quantify I realized the droop curve is compressed compared to CREEs so the values are not absolute after all.
View attachment 3565758

So if you do run them at 25W ea or lower, it might be best to approach that as experimental. That is why I recommend most DIYers to run them at ~50W ea.

Al the charts on here i could find only show the #'s for the cxb 3590 3500k down to 700ma, do you have the #'s @ 350ma ?
Thank you for your time and consideration.

SupraSPL · Dec 16, 2015

organic-fanatic said:
Al the charts on here i could find only show the #'s for the cxb 3590 3500k down to 700ma, do you have the #'s @ 350ma ?
Thank you for your time and consideration.

Unfortunately CREE only gives us data down to 50W, the 25W data is extrapolated based on CXA3590 data, which does go down to 25W . Efficiency does increase significantly as you dim below 25W, but it seems impossible to quantify without an integrating sphere. These charts should give you some idea what is going on at the lower currents but the CXB3590 seems to droop a bit less:

CXA3590:

CXB3070:

organic-fanatic · Dec 17, 2015

SupraSPL said:
Unfortunately CREE only gives us data down to 50W, the 25W data is extrapolated based on CXA3590 data, which does go down to 25W . Efficiency does increase significantly as you dim below 25W, but it seems impossible to quantify without an integrating sphere. These charts should give you some idea what is going on at the lower currents but the CXB3590 seems to droop a bit less:

CXA3590:
View attachment 3566152

CXB3070:
View attachment 3566153

View attachment 3566155

So maybe 16w @ .5a 67%e
12w @ .35a 70%e
Is that close to your estimates?

CXB3590 1500W

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