Death To Mubarak!

tardis

Well-Known Member
friends and family of mine with greater concerns for israel then i have pointed out that the anti-mubarak protesters do show preference to an islam-based form of government. i remember reading some pretty shitty things on jpost.com about their leanings. i'll try to look it up and post it if i can.

nonetheless, democracy is about process, not outcomes. i am certain they will topple mubarak, and a little concerned about what direction their new government will take, especially with respect to their policies regarding israel.
ANYBODY who takes over Egypt will see the mutual need for their peace with us and with Israel.

As to the idea that maybe the new government in egypt will be a Muslim one, My god that is scary!!! At least we know Israel will never be ruled by a jewish one, oh wait....

They are a Muslim country, so of course they will have Muslim leadership! They are a democracy so yes they will vote in Muslims much in the same fashion that we in America vote in Christians. We all have a right to have our politicians be similar religions to the populations majority same as them. Sounds like you want a non-muslim dictator in those countries. Would you liek them to put a muslim leader here for us?
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Remeber the Shaw of Iran. After the Democratic rev in I think 1979, the whole country went extreme muslim...And we now know how that turned out
Maybe if we didn't assassinate the moderate democratically elected president of Iran and install the Shah, that would have never happened.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Fa sho, america isnt perfect, but damn is it hella lot better than egypt and all those other places haha. we're just slow to change cuz all the lobbyin n shit, but hey i think once they legalize weed all the extremist will mellow out and everything will be good.
Yeah, I'll take douchebag social conservative politicians keeping weed illegal over being an Egyptian where you have to bribe the government if you want to go to the hospital, post office, or simply don't feel like being tortured.

their problems > our problems
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
America is not a democracy ...But aparently you don't know that...they have been slowly trying to transform us into a democracy which is part of the reason our nation has some of the problems it does. and Egypt is the way it is because of the U.S. + 1.3 billion a year
Speaking about the democratic system of electing our leadership, not the form of government that only exists in theory.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ANYBODY who takes over Egypt will see the mutual need for their peace with us and with Israel.

As to the idea that maybe the new government in egypt will be a Muslim one, My god that is scary!!! At least we know Israel will never be ruled by a jewish one, oh wait....

They are a Muslim country, so of course they will have Muslim leadership! They are a democracy so yes they will vote in Muslims much in the same fashion that we in America vote in Christians. We all have a right to have our politicians be similar religions to the populations majority same as them. Sounds like you want a non-muslim dictator in those countries. Would you liek them to put a muslim leader here for us?
i am all for them electing who they want to elect, but still reserve the right to have some concern about the effects of that election towards israel. same as the 2006 palestine elections...did not like the outcome, but can't argue too much with the process.

on a further note, it seems almost certain that the pro-mubarak people who attacked US reporters and are firing shots on the peaceful protesters (as well as throwing molotov cocktails) are not any concern to the egyptian military. the military stands to the side as these pro-mubarak people go on killing and injuring peaceful protesters. this seems to be textbook move for a dictator like mubarak, which he seemed to hint at in his speech the night prior.

very fucked up stuff.
 

sputniknz

Active Member
OK, i've been watching this on the news and the internet, and have felt no need to really choose a side, although I hope Democracy wins and the People get their country back. BUT after I heard that Mubarak has threatend to kill US Journalists and Crew, i must say it is decided, DEATH TO MUBARAK. I hope in england his family gets the same roughing up and threats from the british soldiers, an EYE for an EYE. I hope Mubarak gets hung and gutted alive. The moment he gave the order to threaten and attack US journalists he declared war on me and my country. GO EGYPT, FIGHT FOR DEMOCRACY UNTIL YOU HAVE IT OR THE LAST EGYPTIAN CITIZEN IS DEAD! Do not let this evil dictator continue his abuse of the people who truely own the country.

DEATH TO MUBARAK! PEACE TO EGYPTS PEOPLE! DEMOCRACY NOW!

In the immortal words of Mel Gibson "FREEEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!"

The egyptian people want PEACE with US, and PEACE with Israel, Mubarak's attacks on the owners of America (its citizens, no matter what their employment) shows that he declared war on us. I hope Everything he does to the people of egypt happens to him 10x worse.
I find it ironic that you adopt this point of veiw only after he threatens your own. Even more ironic that the US has been bank rolling his government for over a decade. And now when the people who have suffered at his hand funded by your wallet make them selves heard, you side with them based on something you already knew, Mubarak was never pro-USA. Ironically, a united Egypt will further diminish the US arm in the middle east, you have numerous bases in egypt etc (Nrth Base Camp in El Gorath, Egypt for your info). How many visits did that snake G.W. Bush make to egypt in his term... oops i mean - "terms" (also ironic). Do you think the reason Egyptians are protesting have only been caused recently, i hope not - they have been suffering injustice since Mubarak took the priorities of his foreign counterparts and financiers (namely the US government, right wing almost exclusively) over the needs of the people. Another irony, the same people he abused are going to be the same people that finish him of.

I ask, what do you think will happen with US relationships in the Middle East once Mubarak's regime is ousted?

PS: I am aware the people in egypt are in no way shape or form motivated by anything other than the injustice they have suffered under his rule. But you must consider the roll on effect from this.

PPS: Also, since your bases are already in egypt, and you are taking this apparent threat to US lives as a declaration of war, will you enlist? Remember the egyptians are much better armed than the hill billies in afghanistan, and even iraq for that matter. Surely you have trillions to spare... go fight another war!
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
i am all for them electing who they want to elect, but still reserve the right to have some concern about the effects of that election towards israel. same as the 2006 palestine elections...did not like the outcome, but can't argue too much with the process.
Keep in mind that Egypt is used to secular pluralism. There is a sizable christian population in the major cities who they don't have major problems with. Even the muslim brotherhood isn't like Hamas or Hezbollah. They are enemies of Al Queda. They are religious fundamentalists but they aren't as bad as they are made out to be.

No matter who takes over Egypt, even if it does turn out to be the MB, they are still completely dependent on US financial aid and military equipment. We've got them by the balls. They can't do shit to Israel or they lose all those fancy toys.

on a further note, it seems almost certain that the pro-mubarak people who attacked US reporters and are firing shots on the peaceful protesters (as well as throwing molotov cocktails) are not any concern to the egyptian military. the military stands to the side as these pro-mubarak people go on killing and injuring peaceful protesters. this seems to be textbook move for a dictator like mubarak, which he seemed to hint at in his speech the night prior.
The military isn't attacking the people either. At the moment they are playing both sides. The writing is on the wall. The title of the next Egyptian leader will most definitely be General. At the end of this the army will control Egypt entirely regardless of elections. They are way too popular and playing a lot of politics. They will grab power.
 

sputniknz

Active Member
No matter who takes over Egypt, even if it does turn out to be the MB, they are still completely dependent on US financial aid and military equipment. We've got them by the balls. They can't do shit to Israel or they lose all those fancy toys.
Ummmm NO!.... the money going to egypt from the U.S. is more of a pay-off, consider Egypt under the current regime to be something of a US Sherrif in the middle east, earning 2.2b a year. FYI how much do you think Mubarak and his cronies rake in annually, id say 2.2b to be precise. Not a cent of that money from the U.S. makes it to the people. So no, you are wrong... have a read

Wikipedia - "Egypt's economy depends mainly on agriculture, media, petroleum exports, and tourism; there are also more than three million Egyptians working abroad, mainly in Saudi Arabia, the Persian Gulf and Europe. The completion of the Aswan High Dam in 1970 and the resultant Lake Nasser have altered the time-honored place of the Nile River in the agriculture and ecology of Egypt. A rapidly growing population, limited arable land, and dependence on the Nile all continue to overtax resources and stress the economy.

Suez Canal Bridge
The government has invested in communications and physical infrastructure. Egypt has received U.S. foreign aid (since 1979, an average of $2.2 billion per year) and is the third-largest recipient of such funds from the United States following the Iraq war. Its main revenues however come from tourism as well as traffic that goes through the Suez Canal."

They the people of Egypt could survive, and have done so. Mubarak on the other wouldn't, he has gotten used to spending all those US dollars on palaces and toys for his "freinds" and squandering the riches of his country.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
They the people of Egypt could survive, and have done so. Mubarak on the other wouldn't, he has gotten used to spending all those US dollars on palaces and toys for his "freinds" and squandering the riches of his country.
You're under-estimating the importance of the army in Egypt. That army is 100% dependent on the US. No matter who takes over in Egypt, they need at the least, US military aid. See those tanks on the news in Cairo? Those are m1 abrams. Those planes they are flying are f-18's. They don't want to loose all that. Nor do they want to lose the money we send them, regardless of who we will be writing the checks to. The people may not think they need that money, but they definitely understand the importance of their military and that military will not give that stuff up even if they have to force who ever takes power to cut a deal with the US. Still, I'd be very surprised if the military doesn't just take control of the country. Either way, they'll cut a deal.
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
Even the muslim brotherhood isn't like Hamas or Hezbollah.

Dan saying that with tounge in cheek..
Come On do you reallly believe that?
Should the Muslim Brotherhood take over they will end up just like Iran.. You heard it here first.
 

jeff f

New Member
Even the muslim brotherhood isn't like Hamas or Hezbollah.

Dan saying that with tounge in cheek..
Come On do you reallly believe that?
Should the Muslim Brotherhood take over they will end up just like Iran.. You heard it here first.
anybody who supports sharia law is the devil. the only thing about sharia muslim law that is good is the way they treat their women.....second class citizens, as it should be. women are stupid and shouldnt be allowed to go to school or walk with men that they arent related to. also, stoning women is cool! honor killings are great. and whats wrong with punching your wife in the face once in a while? surely she had it coming.....

long live the religion of peace...... :(
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
Speaking about the democratic system of electing our leadership, not the form of government that only exists in theory.
You mean the appointment of the president through the electoral college? so the popular vote does not determine the winner?
Democracy only exists in theory the U.S.A. was founded as a Republic Y'all !
 

Total Head

Well-Known Member
the severity of this situation was never brought to our attention by the mainstream media until very recently. a month ago few americans could even tell you who mubarak was. the news i'm watching is trying to paint it like the us didn't know this guy was such a jerkoff, but if i remember correctly the bush administration even wagged their finger at the guy and threataned to cut off the $$, so to cry ignorance at this point is a little silly. and all this gumdrop talk is a little premature. the people of egypt have no interest in what we all think of as a democracy. they are largely islamist and want their government to reflect that, they just hate mubarak, as well they should. that guy is a real peice of shit. when anderson cooper was being attacked he made a point to point out that the army did nothing to stop it, and it's pretty obvious now that this is just state sponsered terrorism against their own people. this guy is a poor man's saddam.
 

sputniknz

Active Member
You're under-estimating the importance of the army in Egypt.
No im not, you are oversetimating its dependance on US support. I lived in the balkans during the war. They started with nothing but hand guns a hunting rifles, over the course of a year they were armed to the teeth. If funds in their economy were distributed they way they ought to be i think the surplus left by not having to keep mubabrak in pocket would astound you.

No matter who takes over in Egypt, they need at the least, US military aid
Why do they need it? The middle east is by far a muslim majority. Egypt is by far a population of muslims, by majority. Who should they fear, who do you think wants to invade egypt??? Israel???.... come on dude, seriously? A billion muslims knocking on israels door would make texas shit its pants. Hardware doesn't win wars, people do. What Egypt needs is "unity".

See those tanks on the news in Cairo? Those are m1 abrams. Those planes they are flying are f-18's. They don't want to loose all that.
Yeah, and guess what. That 2.2b you gave mubarak for the last 30 years, is the same money that was used to pay for that shit "in full".... so no debt collectors or unhappy financiers are going to take what was paid for in full. The only reason they have it, is because the US wants them to have it. Keeping Mubarak armed, means that Mubarak and his cronies can carry on supporting US interest in the region without fear of fallout from there unsupported, yet brotherly neighbors.

Nor do they want to lose the money we send them, regardless of who we will be writing the checks to.
And again, repeating what i said. The Egyptian people, dont care about your money. They havent seen any of it since you started giving it to them...oops i mean mubarak!

The people may not think they need that money, but they definitely understand the importance of their military and that military will not give that stuff up even if they have to force who ever takes power to cut a deal with the US.
And again, why are you so convinced they need this army? Who is it they are living in fear of??? Tell me???.... oh Israel right, ha ha ha you make me laugh. Israel is surrounded by enemies just waiting to pounce, if that was a horse i would have to take the bet. The people of Egypt would prefer to cut military costs, and increase domestic spending on healthcare, education etc. You sound like someone who is a victim of fear mongering. Reminds me of the Michael Moore documentary, locked doors in detroit and accross the river in Canada all doors are open. Fear is your worst enemy, and trying to convince the Egyptians to arm themselves out of fear is a waste of time.

PS: What is happening in Egypt right now should show you how fearless the people in Egypt are. Where were the citizens of America when Bush was laying waste all over the world and in your own home's. WHY WERENT YOU ALL OUT ON THE STREETS PROTESTING BUSH OUT OF POWER, SHAME, THATS WHY I RESPECT THE EGYPTIANS.... THEY SEIZED THE OPPURTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING AND DONE IT. WITHOUT FEAR. THEY STAND UNITED, UNLIKE THE "UNITED" STATES, WHO COULDNT HAVE SEEMED MORE DIVIDED IF THEY TRIED.

If you want to know democracy, you need to loose everything you have. When you have nothing you are truly free!
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Why do they need it? The middle east is by far a muslim majority. Egypt is by far a population of muslims, by majority. Who should they fear, who do you think wants to invade egypt??? Israel???.... come on dude, seriously? A billion muslims knocking on israels door would make texas shit its pants. Hardware doesn't win wars, people do. What Egypt needs is "unity".
Why? That's easy. Because Allah doesn't give them f18's and m1 abrams. The Egyptian army could defeat any army in their continent and other than Isreal, any army in the middle east. They like their military superiority. It's very important to them. See the people cheer when the army comes in even though they aren't doing anything but watching. The people of Egypt support the army more than any other organization in Egypt. Our military tech is the reason their army is so powerful. They won't give that up. Even if the people would, the army wouldn't. And they have the most power.

As I said, you're underestimating the importance of their military. Think of it from our perspective. Could you imagine the US giving up all their military hardware? No chance in hell.

And again, why are you so convinced they need this army? Who is it they are living in fear of??? Tell me???.... oh Israel right, ha ha ha you make me laugh
Your problem is you are thinking of Egypt as some random generic arab country. They aren't that. They don't live in fear of Israel. Most of them don't give a shit about Israel. I'd bet more of them fear Iran more than Israel.

Does the US fear any other country so badly that we need to spend more than the rest of the world combined on the military? No. Not since the cold war ended. Yet we've increased military spending every year from when the cold war ended to now even though we have no threat to take over the country. That's not the only reason countries have powerful militaries.

The people of Egypt would prefer to cut military costs, and increase domestic spending on healthcare, education etc.
Maybe, but that doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Who's going to tell the military they will no longer get their new toys? Who's going to make the military comply with that?

You sound like someone who is a victim of fear mongering.
And you sound like someone who doesn't understand how the world works.

PS: What is happening in Egypt right now should show you how fearless the people in Egypt are.
It's only the way it is because the military won't turn on the people. If the army attacked the people, it'd be a different ballgame.

WHY WERENT YOU ALL OUT ON THE STREETS PROTESTING BUSH OUT OF POWER, SHAME, THATS WHY I RESPECT THE EGYPTIANS....
No no no! Shame on you! I was out protesting. I'm a San Franciscan. We shut the whole city down with our protests. We had bottles thrown at us out of highrise windows. I saw cars ram into protesters intentionally. I got the shit beat out of me with nightsticks. I got pepper sprayed then arrested. Where the fuck were you? Probably at home watching TV.

If you want to know democracy, you need to loose everything you have. When you have nothing you are truly free!
The thing about preaching to people about things you don't really know about, is sometimes you'll get caught in the act by people who do know. This is one of those times. I've been there, I doubt you have. If you had, you wouldn't act like it was so glorious.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Even the muslim brotherhood isn't like Hamas or Hezbollah.

Dan saying that with tounge in cheek..
Come On do you reallly believe that?
Should the Muslim Brotherhood take over they will end up just like Iran.. You heard it here first.
Not all muslims are the same. Not even all muslim fundamentalists are the same. That's like saying all fundamentalist christians are like the kkk or the westborough baptist church. They aren't.

Al queda has declared the muslim brotherhood an enemy. A fundamentalist and a terrorist aren't one in the same. These guys wouldn't be good for US interests, but they aren't the Iranians or Hezbollah.

Of course I don't think it would be a good thing to have any kind of fundamentalists in charge of any government. But they aren't what you think they are.
 

canuckgrow

Well-Known Member
anybody who supports sharia law is the devil. the only thing about sharia muslim law that is good is the way they treat their women.....second class citizens, as it should be. women are stupid and shouldnt be allowed to go to school or walk with men that they arent related to. also, stoning women is cool! honor killings are great. and whats wrong with punching your wife in the face once in a while? surely she had it coming.....

long live the religion of peace...... :(

ohhhh now you have done it it....Calling them the devil.......Oh and what if you were right and men who believe in Sharia law were the only ones who beat their wives?
 

sputniknz

Active Member
omg... u think they hold there army over there bread, why.. egyptians are not a hive satisfied by the knowledge their "stick" is the biggest. They are ordinary husbands, wives, children etc. The Mothers & Fathers care more for the children than they do your tanks. Children benefit more from education and medicine, and the elderly from peace. And as for getting kicked and sprayed i applaud you, without sarcasm i would pin a medal on you for your efforts, after learning your motives. But dont seat your self so high on your chair, i too endured these things, maybe worse than you (balkans 1995). Most Americans are in awe of their military and its might. You must think egyptians are a primitive species that ranks its cheif by the size of the stick he yeilds. Alot has happened since the internet, egypt is a bustling economy, the people are aware of the world around them, it is modern. And as for being told that i am thinking of egypt as a a "generic arab country", i object, exactly the opposite.... and you talking like they are militarily driven hive mind suggests maybe you do.

THE ARMY IS NOTHING BUT A ANIMAL THAT NEEDS TO BE $$FED$$, IF YOU DONT $$FEED$$ IT. IT WILL DIE. And i admit it shouldn't die but its an obese $$USD$$Money pig that eats of the supermarket shelves.

Egypt has a mandatory military service program for males between the ages of eighteen and thirty. IF THEY CANT GET OUT OF MANDATORY SERVICE THE PAY A $$FINE$$. SOME DO IT JUST TO AVOID THE $$FINE$$.
 
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