Deficiency or maybe Septoria?

Hello everyone, this is my first time growing ever and all was going well until about a week or so ago and now I’m starting to get anxious about it!

I was told it may be calcium deficiency from low ph locking it out so I tried using 6.7ish ph tap water instead of spring (my tap water naturally has a decent calcium content, to where the water comes out murky at first) and it’s only worse since Runoff ph is normal though after watering today with around 6.3ph. I also added some bushdoctor cal mag (just got it or I’d have added some sooner) but I’m not thinking that will do much at this point?

I defoliated all leaves that I could see any spots on three days ago. The only other two things besides deficiency I can find online that look like this are septoria and cercospora. The resources regarding septoria on cannabis aren’t vast and most I found (at least that contain pictures) are the same article repeated on another site with not much extra details or specifics. Cercospora for cannabis has barely any search results and also has limited info. I’m not sure what I can do about this at this point if it’s fungal or if I should go ahead and harvest early maybe if so (I don’t mind the uplifting effects anyway) or just trash them and start over? All the online sources mention that septoria won’t affect the bud itself, just the leaves and yield but wouldn’t there still be spores on/in the bud? Would bud washing be enough to get the spores off and make it safe to smoke? How would I make sure I sanitize the whole room/tent for the spores so that it doesn’t come back my next grows?

I’m currently completely out of stuff to smoke and was really hoping on this grow for a new medicine supply so any help is really really appreciated. Wasn’t able to get much info/advice from Reddit posts :/
My first grow excitement is starting to fade

3x3 with 2 x 200w LEDs

3 gal pots

53/55 days from sprout (all autos)
Mephisto White Wedding, Tastebudz Back to the Future 2, HSC Purple Panty Dropper

Happy frog soil with Gaia green dry amendments, worm castings and a little coco. Last top dressed about a week ago with a little Gaia green 2-8-4/rock dust.

Average humidity around 45%, average temps 82F-86F

Watering about every 2 days

Well, at this point, there's nothing you can do to 'fix' it. It's not a funghi, forget about spores. There is however a risk, now that the plant is weak and vulnerable, it could still get infected, with bud rot (Botrytis). To help prevent that, make sure no necrotic leaves are 'in' the bud. If you pull any of the small leaves and they come out very easily it's too late.

It looks like a manganese deficiency, but that very rarely the result of an deficiency of manganese in the nutrients or soil and most often a result of a rather large ph mismatch, which in turn, is usually not the result of the water used, but of overfeeding. Another possibly cause that obstructs manganese uptake is over watering. Point is, don't get hung up on chasing the cause, it's usually more a symptom from basic problems than the real problem itself.

MunchyCat420 said:

My first grow excitement is starting to fade

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Don't let it get to you, for a first grow we've all seen far worse. My general advice is let the plant grow itself, over-management (nutrients, ph-ing, excessive watering etc) is the most common source of problems.

My guess is that it could be a buildup - causing a lockout, mainly K, or from overfeeding/burn. Basic watering practices come into play here too. If you’re using synthetic nutrients, you want to water to a percentage of run-off, so that salts don’t accumulate and flush out instead. You have your pots sitting in catch-trays, which will prevent true run-off as the plant re-absorbs that water that it’s sitting in. This run-off is a higher concentration of ec than what you’re putting in, and needs to drain away. RE-absorbing it is like feeding your plants with a highly concentrated nutrient solution. I’d recommend that you measure your ppm coming out and see if it’s higher than what’s going in. That would go a long way in confirming this theory. I’ve done it before too, so speaking from “experience” or maybe an early lack of experience at the time .

edit : I haven’t used Gaia, but topdressing is still feeding. Catch trays are recommended for plain-water feeding and supersoils.

Sativied said:

Well, at this point, there's nothing you can do to 'fix' it. It's not a funghi, forget about spores. There is however a risk, now that the plant is weak and vulnerable, it could still get infected, with bud rot (Botrytis). To help prevent that, make sure no necrotic leaves are 'in' the bud. If you pull any of the small leaves and they come out very easily it's too late.

It looks like a manganese deficiency, but that very rarely the result of an deficiency of manganese in the nutrients or soil and most often a result of a rather large ph mismatch, which in turn, is usually not the result of the water used, but of overfeeding. Another possibly cause that obstructs manganese uptake is over watering. Point is, don't get hung up on chasing the cause, it's usually more a symptom from basic problems than the real problem itself.


Don't let it get to you, for a first grow we've all seen far worse. My general advice is let the plant grow itself, over-management (nutrients, ph-ing, excessive watering etc) is the most common source of problems.

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Thanks so much for the advice, I truly appreciate it as I haven’t been able to get much in general and have felt confused about what to do. May I ask what makes you sure it’s probably not fungi? Will watering with a little high ph and then ph that’s a little low soon after be something that could cause the manganese lockout?
I’ll go ahead and test the small sugar leaves like you said and if there is no resistance on pulling them then I assume it probably has botrytis by now and I should trash the whole plant? I should mention one (the biggest of course lol) is definitely worse off than the other two. The dying leaves are happening seemingly by the hour though so if the sugar leaves do have a little resistance when I pull, would it be smart to just harvest early to ensure bud rot doesn’t actually start to set in soon?

sorry for all the questions, any help is appreciated!

MissinThe90’sStrains said:

My guess is that it could be a buildup - causing a lockout, mainly K, or from overfeeding/burn. Basic watering practices come into play here too. If you’re using synthetic nutrients, you want to water to a percentage of run-off, so that salts don’t accumulate and flush out instead. You have your pots sitting in catch-trays, which will prevent true run-off as the plant re-absorbs that water that it’s sitting in. This run-off is a higher concentration of ec than what you’re putting in, and needs to drain away. RE-absorbing it is like feeding your plants with a highly concentrated nutrient solution. I’d recommend that you measure your ppm coming out and see if it’s higher than what’s going in. That would go a long way in confirming this theory. I’ve done it before too, so speaking from “experience” or maybe an early lack of experience at the time .

edit : I haven’t used Gaia, but topdressing is still feeding. Catch trays are recommended for plain-water feeding and supersoils.

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I forgot to add in the original post that I accidentally did add too many dry amendments when prepping my soil and so all three plants ended up with a nitrogen toxicity in veg. So I’m assuming that, along with my two top dresses of the 2-8-4 dry amendments I’ve done (only 1tbsp per pot) could cause that buildup and therefore lockout? Weirdly though the biggest plant that had the least n tox earlier is the worst off now and the bad n tox plant that was stunted is the least ruined by whatever this is!

I have the pots on top of raised black “drain” things which are inside the aluminum cooking trays where the water collects. Whenever I water the water that collects in the aluminum tray isn’t even high enough to touch the bottom of the black raiser the pot is sitting on so I assumed that would be measurable run off and that the plants would be getting air underneath the riser? I’ve been measuring the run off ph from that at least and then using a turkey Baster to empty the runoff from the aluminum tray. Thanks for the reply/advice by the way, I really appreciate it!

Gotcha, just guessing from the picture and info provided. They still do look overfed to me though. Did you “cook” your soil beforehand? These plants are pretty small, and a well built soil should be able to sustain the:without needing additional feeding. How were the plants looking before you began topdressing ?

MissinThe90’sStrains said:

Gotcha, just guessing from the picture and info provided. They still do look overfed to me though. Did you “cook” your soil beforehand? These plants are pretty small, and a well built soil should be able to sustain the:without needing additional feeding. How were the plants looking before you began topdressing ?

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For sure, no worries! I’ve only top dressed twice actually and both times only used about a tbsp per pot of Gaia green 2-8-4 and glacial rock dust. The last top dressing was around 2 weeks ago now and since then is also when things have really noticeably declined, although this seemed to be starting right before/as I was doing the last top dressing. Before that, the previous top dressing was at day 30 from sprout, a little after they started showing pistils. This pic is from less than a week ago though after removing the affected leaves.
Edit: I guess I did pre “cook” the soil since it had nutrients that are already in Fox farm happy frog soil and then I added about 3tbsps per gallon of Gaia green dry amendments (so 9tbps per pot) which I read later on that is probably too much especially for autos but I just followed Gaia green’s instructions

MunchyCat420 said:

May I ask what makes you sure it’s probably not fungi?

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It just rarely ever is. Far more common is new growers thinking they have a funghi or disease, tobacco mosaic virus even. It's just more likely one of the most common problems for new growers, an unbalance in nutrients/watering/ph. Nutrient deficiencies rarely occur isolated. More often they are the result of overwatering, over managing PH (which I'd never do on soil), or excess nutrients in the medium.

And no need to trash the entirely plant regardless. If you 'can' pull out sugar leaves easily (and I do mean like barely any resistance) you can sort of bend the cola and you can clearly tell the difference between rotten and healthy parts. IF (and again merely pointed it out cause there's an increased risk now, I don't think it's the case yet) it's the case, simply cut it away. And clean everything well, like don't cut rotten parts and then healthy parts cause it will then still get worse when drying. So no need to pull anything yet, just keep a close eye on it. And when a leaf is mostly yellow and brown, it lost most of its function. In first pic that yellow and brown sugar leaf just right from the center might as well be removed.

Personally, if I was low on stash (been there ) I'd let it got a little bit longer. In any case, pop more seeds for next round.

@MissinThe90’sStrains makes a few very good points.

MissinThe90’sStrains said:

Gotcha, just guessing from the picture and info provided. They still do look overfed to me though. Did you “cook” your soil beforehand? These plants are pretty small, and a well built soil should be able to sustain the:without needing additional feeding. How were the plants looking before you began topdressing ?

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Here is from 2-3 weeks ago

Best to ignore... it's definitely not manganese toxicity, which on its own would not do that much damage nor reduce yield dramatically, and that misinformation in no way would lead to a solution or better second attempt. What you're seeing are indirect symptoms.

Sativied said:

It just rarely ever is. Far more common is new growers thinking they have a funghi or disease, tobacco mosaic virus even. It's just more likely one of the most common problems for new growers, an unbalance in nutrients/watering/ph. Nutrient deficiencies rarely occur isolated. More often they are the result of overwatering, over managing PH (which I'd never do on soil), or excess nutrients in the medium.

And no need to trash the entirely plant regardless. If you 'can' pull out sugar leaves easily (and I do mean like barely any resistance) you can sort of bend the cola and you can clearly tell the difference between rotten and healthy parts. IF (and again merely pointed it out cause there's an increased risk now, I don't think it's the case yet) it's the case, simply cut it away. And clean everything well, like don't cut rotten parts and then healthy parts cause it will then still get worse when drying. So no need to pull anything yet, just keep a close eye on it. And when a leaf is mostly yellow and brown, it lost most of its function. In first pic that yellow and brown sugar leaf just right from the center might as well be removed.

Personally, if I was low on stash (been there ) I'd let it got a little bit longer. In any case, pop more seeds for next round.

@MissinThe90’sStrains makes a few very good points.

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That’s what I’ve read and seen but when I looked up deficiency pics nothing really seemed to match my issue super accurately besides septoria obviously but like you said if it’s multiple deficiencies I assume it wouldn’t be easy to tell a difference. I also am in Ohio though and I heard a lot of Kentucky/Michigan growers having legitimate septoria issues (outdoor I assume with a majority) and with me being in that zone I assumed it was a higher chance of actually being septoria. That and the fact that my neighbor has a big garden (and I’ve heard septoria thrives commonly on tomato plants) and for a few weeks I was leaving my window in my lung room open (to allow cold air inside and lower the 87F temps in my tent) which is not very far away from said neighbors garden, it worried me the wind might have picked up septoria. I also overthink everything so it’s probably a reach but that helped fuel my worries initially. I appreciate your advice and information though and it definitely has me feeling a little bit better.
Do you recommend trying to make sure the ph is always around the same when I water? Someone on Reddit told me that you don’t want to use the same ph water always and that you want the whole range in order to uptake all nutrients well but how would I do that without causing ph issues? As For pulling fan leaves alongside the sugar leaves, do I want to wait until those start to look dead more towards the center where the bud is to pull them or would you say if at least like half of the leaf is dead it’s time to pull? I assume not much photosynthesis is even happening anymore with the damage so pulling “too many fan leaves off the plant” doesn’t really matter as much at this point compared to just salvaging the plant/preventing rot or am I completely wrong in that assumption? Thanks again for all your time. Sorry about that awful comment that random person made to you, I really appreciate your help even if you were to somehow end up being completely wrong (which I doubt) lmao.

MunchyCat420 said:

Sorry about that awful comment that random person made to you,

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If you see that kind of post in the future please do not click on reply, instead click on Report (lower left every post).
Thank you

curious2garden said:

If you see that kind of post in the future please do not click on reply, instead click on Report (lower left every post).
Thank you

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Sounds good, will do! Was definitely shocking to see lol. Also, I can’t seem to find a button to “like” people’s comments but saw someone liked one of mine, am I just missing the obvious? Glad to hear that about Sativied, I figured based on the age of their profile and the info/helpful comments that they were pretty experienced

MunchyCat420 said:

Sounds good, will do! Was definitely shocking to see lol. Also, I can’t seem to find a button to “like” people’s comments but saw someone liked one of mine, am I just missing the obvious? Glad to hear that about Sativied, I figured based on the age of their profile and the info/helpful comments that they were pretty experienced

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You haven't been here long enough to access the like button or send private messages. That will come soon as you keep participating.

curious2garden said:

You haven't been here long enough to access the like button or send private messages. That will come soon as you keep participating.

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Ahh that makes sense, thanks for the info!

MunchyCat420 said:

Sorry about that awful comment that random person made to you, I really appreciate your help even if you were to somehow end up being completely wrong lmao.

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No worries and yes me being wrong sure is always an option. I'm still "sure it's probably not" but it sounds like you have more legit reasons to consider an infection than most.

As surely you noticed, there are about as many ways to grow as there are growers. I like many do what works, not necessarily what's ideal or best. With that said:

MunchyCat420 said:

Someone on Reddit told me that you don’t want to use the same ph water always and that you want the whole range in order to uptake all nutrients well but how would I do that without causing ph issues?

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Was that perhaps for a hydro grow? Personally I'd never try to adjust ph in soil unless I have very high ph water. The ph in a pot of soil isn't equally in every square inch and the plant, given no excess amount of nutrients and healthy soil, has no problem regulating it. Mind you others swear by adjusting ph, but yeah, I don't and wouldn't in soil.

MunchyCat420 said:

As For pulling fan leaves, do I want to wait until those start to look dead more towards the center where the bud is to pull them or would you say if at least like half of the leaf is dead it’s time to pull?

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In this case, I'd clean up a few fingers, not necessarily entire leaves if they still have green parts.

All in all, the best advice I can give is do as little as possible. Less is more, that goes for water (let dry a little so the water actually runs through and off), nutrients (a little less won't cost yield, a little too much can), and ph adjustments. Give them a good home and they'll do most of the work. Also, and again, just what I do, but would advice if the soil is very compact, I'd add a little perlite instead of coco.

Ah one more tip: next grow, take pics more often, especially if problems arise. Makes it easier to diagnose when people can see how it progressed.