Slab
Well-Known Member
hundreds of colas when they laid down!?!?!!
defoliation question..... anyone familiar with it?
- Thread starter keebo3000
- Start date
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Control your plants? You guys can't even agree on how and when, much less how much.
No, it doesn't make sense, just the same ol cannabis forum bullshit.
UB
Bud Brewer
Well-Known Member
I've been asking for trouble as soon as I announced that I defoliated these beautiful lades repeatedly to a miraculous gigantic grow.
You think I'd have double the bud if it always had all its leaves you are wrong the reason is the defoliation training forcing out those branches to refoliate the lost plant mass repeatedly making for a dense two foot plant before I allowed them to refoliate before flower not because of some mutant bag seed.
.
My buddy grew these from bag seed In hydro with a 1000 watt mh with a small parabolic vertical like me and had three plants that equal one of mine defoliation made the difference along with my unique 3' x 6' foot shield, my homemade organics, longer veg and 18 gallon totes with homemade soil all contributed to a nice crop.
I am defoliating again today to get light to the shaded bud in the canopy because those front pictures can't show you the two and a half feet deep interior bud that is near dark despite me removing more than half of the large leaves a 21 days flower.
sheik yerbouti
Active Member
Us guys? like were some coalition for defoliation...ha. Ya were all one team that got together to prove how great defoliation is. Your lost and confused.
It's not some forum fallacy btw, I learned about defoliation from experienced growers getting phenomenal g's per watt that don't bother wasting time dicking around on forums because they are good at what they do and don't feel the need to share or prove how much smarter or better they are then other growers.
Different strokes for different folks, some of us defoliate and do it at different stages of the cycle and different amounts, there's no set way of being better. Your topping for 4 main cola's isn't a set in stone way of training cannabis, it's just another way of controlling your plants to do what you want to get the most yield, different strokes for different folks.
Alexander Supertramp
Well-Known Member
I have come to the conclusion a few folks here could be tied to a chair. In front of a grow. Control group and experimental group. Forced to watch the entire grow, start to finish. See first hand the untouched control group out performs the raped plants. Then turn them lose. And as soon as they get home they will be back to claiming raping a plant works.
Alexander Supertramp
Well-Known Member
And the funniest thing I have noticed so far. Some claim they do it to control stretch. Whiles others claim they do it to induce stem elongation. What a great way to grow. You get the results you want to get no matter if they are different from the result someone else wants to get. Simply amazing......
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Exactly what I said just now in "the other thread". It's a religion to some, and they're not about to have their faith shattered with truisms (can you say "natural and organic"?. You'll not convince anyone using scientific thought that buds aka flowers, do not need light to produce nor are they capable of food production for the plant. Sure glad my apple tree and grapevines can't read.
The canopy on my grapevines is usually so thick (shaded) you have to search for the clusters sometimes.UB
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Big difference. I'm smart enough to understand what drives tissue production of roots, stems, flowers and it aint by removing the very plant unit that produces that tissue. Once I top, I 'leave' it alone. Sorry, but it's just fuckin' stupid and is another statement about how wacked out the cannabis business is. Now if you were really cool, you'd defoliate every leaf that came along, fed your faves with Superthrive and Brawndo be done with it. The following video says it all when it comes to some who allow themselves to be brainwashed by some popular religious fervor. Seems to be the American way.
[video=youtube;8Zqe4ZV9LDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs&feature=player_embedded[/video]
UB
blacksun
New Member
I once had the pleasure of starting a grow of the same strain at the exact same time, to the day, as another person on a different forum.
He had a very similar setup, 600w hps cooltube, 2x4, hydro. He religiously removed every fan leaf that popped up all throughout the plant's life. In the end, his plant took an extra month in veg, an extra month in flower, and it produced half the weight mine did.
Two extra months, half the weight. At that point I decided defoliation was retarded.
Granted, he could have fucked up anything else over the course of the grow, if he did he didn't mention it. The only difference that he admitted to was butchering the plant. I posted a message at the end telling him my results and asking him if he learned anything and asked if he was going to continue defoliating. IIRC he said he would continue to fully butcher the plants. I didn't think me just telling him my results, telling him that I did so much better than him (and I didn't even do that good), would convince him (I didn't do a journal or pics or anything). I didn't really care if it convinced him to stop because it didn't matter if he learned from his own mistake or not, I did learn from his mistake. I got to witness first hand how terrible defoliating is. I did thank him for that.
Bud Brewer
Well-Known Member
If some one is just taking leaves off all the time it is going to fuck your plants up but doing it and letting them leaf out again will force extra branching it is a balance an ebb and flow if you will I copied this from the other thread.
I defoliate for the dense branching it creates if it was just veg time I would have a normal looking large plant with one larger cola and few good side branches but defoliated made a bush instead of a tree.
Until you try it once you won't know I have clones ready for the defoliation test to be started soon you will see the different growth patterns quickly the final result will take months but the clones are perfect all equal and ready.
I think running little veg time is a waste because the plant doesn't get large but still takes 2-3 months adding one month veg you can double your yield if you have the space. I like to veg as long as the flowering plants are running making for nice large plants to replace them in the flowering room.
This is a couple of weeks after the last veg defoliation the intense branch caused by forcing the small leaves left to become fan leaves growing from all the little nodes.
You see what I mean by bush not the classic Christmas tree it would have been that's the back side that hasn't seen direct light in a couple of weeks since the last defoliation.
Then I let them leaf out before bud I like leaves they feed the plant but I don't need them all in veg I got lots of food for them. The leaves I pluck go in a blender and one cup of leaves goes in a gallon to ferment then a cup of that to a gallon.
sheik yerbouti
Active Member
Your a funny guy, you think I've never grown without defoliation? Have you ever tried defoliating? probably not yet you continue to say stupid shit like this. I used to think like you guys, more fan leaves = more photosynthesis = more bud.
When I started growing SOG style 300 plants under 6000w it was recommended to me by a guy who pulls on average 10 pounds off 4200w with a sog stadium to defoliate, its what he does so you'd think I'd believe him since he's got the same strain and everything. Did I? nope, I didn't defoliate and ended up with stretching plants due to the plants competing for light and so much fluffy popcorn, my yields were ok but not great and trimming and working with my plants was a nightmare0.
He then came by to check my grow next time and recommended again to try it, I was determined to not believe him so I didn't again, same story. I then defoliated the next grow, not being an idiot and removing all the fan leaves all the time, but once at flip and once at 4 weeks. The plants did not stretch nearly as much and my plants had more space and light as well as having nice solid nugs throughout. I've seen the results without doing it and with doing it.
Am I doing it on my current grow? Not really, Only on a few to test how it effects the growth. I have a medical license now so I'm growing tree's and most of my plants are bushy short Indica plants so no need for defoliating so far. I'll be taking the leaves off a few after stretch to see if light penetration into the plant create a better bud structure or leaving the leaves is better I've tried both ways so I can say whats better or not. For some styles is great, for others pointless but if your going to sit here and insult the intelligence of growers that have tried both ways and found a way to make it useful for themselves then your just plain ignorant, the world is flat and you must be right because you read some article about photosynthesis and how is effects cowpeas.
sheik yerbouti
Active Member
You don't need to be a molecular biologist to be able to cook a meal nor do you need to be a botanist to grow a plant, understanding to innermost detail of what is going on is great and all but doesn't mean your right. I really wish you could see the grows and yields I've seen from guys that defoliate, SOG stadium grows. My guess is you've never tried anything of the sort so you really can't understand what it's like to have 50 plants under a 1000w light and therefor can't really say shit.
FR33MASON
Active Member
After reading this thread there is one thing I am curious about.
When plants are attacked by insects or herbivores, they tend to chemically change inorder to disuade the attack such as making bitter and astringent tastes. So I am just wondering if you indeed do get a great yield from this technique, are you sacrificing quality?
When plants are attacked by insects or herbivores, they tend to chemically change inorder to disuade the attack such as making bitter and astringent tastes. So I am just wondering if you indeed do get a great yield from this technique, are you sacrificing quality?
Alexander Supertramp
Well-Known Member
That is a very valid question that I will just sit back and bask over the answers.
Bud Brewer
Well-Known Member
The whole point of thc and essential oils are as bug repellant so if there is any difference it should get stinkier and stickier good point fr33.
Nizza
Well-Known Member
i hope everyone has seen this guys page. Grow ideas , honestly i like his technique a lot and am hoping to use it in hydro. its called CCOB (crop circle of bud) . a plant topped once in early life is then 2 stalks spiraled around horizontally. the training is done after the 2 stalks reach around 18". theres like a tomato cage or whatever but bottom of the line for me is i make sure there's a channel of air beneath the canopy and then an air floor is great, with the intake below the floor. the horizontal bend will make the plant stop growing vertically and prevent any stretch, resulting in a huge ass nug. I dont see anything about defoliating in his techniques but i think defoliating may be correspondant to how you grow, or maybe not even necessary. proper reflectivity + lighting is what you want, and maybe if you only have one light above a lot of plants , defoliating may be necessary. Why not add more lights and improve reflectors and whatnot? I Only remove fan leaves are damages say 30% or more. I just cut off a little piece of it if it got messed up and then let the plant choose what to let die. fans will blow the fan leaves around and thus the light will make it to the lower areas
Nizza
Well-Known Member
- "Think of the stem as a hydro tube feeding the branches, and the branches each as a small plant. I keep my stems horizontal for the whole grow but will only tie down some of the branches if they stick up over the canopy, extra long branches usually at the base of the plant. As long as the branch is getting light and it's not shading other branches or is too close to the light, it's fine.
Over the first week the side branches will reach up to the light and grow as small colas. Help separate them, arrange for space and light, air flow. I use a tomato cage with almost all my new plants, a couple dozen 24" colas in 3 or 4 square feet."
I think that's a pretty good idea of what needs to be done.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
The guy is a crackpot.
Bakatare666
Well-Known Member
OK guys, please forgive me, but I didn't read all 34 pages to see if anyone replying has/ is growing with CFL's and has plucked the inner lower foliage.
I have been thinking about this for a couple weeks now, since I am 22 days from first pistil Monday at time of pic, and am getting some light spotting like K def. and yellowing of the low inside leaves, I am assuming from lack of light penetration due to CFL's and it doesn't quit or slow when I give a dose of Veg N Bloom for some N.
I am feeding every or sometimes every other water with Rock Resinator (1-4-16), Cutting Edge Bloom (0-6-5), and have fed once with MOAB.
Would it be beneficial to thin out the top center to allow more light to the middle, or just let her be and pluck off the dead leaves as they reach 'that point'?
I've already tucked, tied, and tried moving my CFL's about all over the grow space, but still get about 4-5 sad leaves per week, and have just been giving a light tug to pull whatever is ready every other time I water/ feed.
I'm still getting visible growth daily, and just don't want to do anything dumb-this is my first CFL grow (And indoor too).
View attachment 2507055
I have been thinking about this for a couple weeks now, since I am 22 days from first pistil Monday at time of pic, and am getting some light spotting like K def. and yellowing of the low inside leaves, I am assuming from lack of light penetration due to CFL's and it doesn't quit or slow when I give a dose of Veg N Bloom for some N.
I am feeding every or sometimes every other water with Rock Resinator (1-4-16), Cutting Edge Bloom (0-6-5), and have fed once with MOAB.
Would it be beneficial to thin out the top center to allow more light to the middle, or just let her be and pluck off the dead leaves as they reach 'that point'?
I've already tucked, tied, and tried moving my CFL's about all over the grow space, but still get about 4-5 sad leaves per week, and have just been giving a light tug to pull whatever is ready every other time I water/ feed.
I'm still getting visible growth daily, and just don't want to do anything dumb-this is my first CFL grow (And indoor too).
View attachment 2507055
Bud Brewer
Well-Known Member
I would feed more veg till near the end you aren't getting N and maybe magnesium tsp epsom salt to a gallon with the half veg nutes .
That plant doesn't look shaded enough to strip leaves especially if your losing leaves.
I defoliate in veg with small plants when they are growing fast every couple of weeks they grow the leaves back in days but if everything isn't growing fast I wouldn't do it.
That plant doesn't look shaded enough to strip leaves especially if your losing leaves.
I defoliate in veg with small plants when they are growing fast every couple of weeks they grow the leaves back in days but if everything isn't growing fast I wouldn't do it.