Defoliation Trial - 4 Clones

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One thing I've found through this trial is that direct light on the buds is most important for getting hard buds right to the bottom of the plant.

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If you've got any type of canopy density the yield at the bottom of the plant is near useless. Lollypop for sure.

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All 4 cans of bud, 1 gallon can per plant, have balanced at 62% RH so its time to see who was right with their predictions.

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Clone 1 = 140 grams

Clone 1 had no defoliation and lots of larf low in the canopy.

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clone 2 = 142 grams

This plant was lollipop but only had a minor variance in weight.

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Clone 3 = 138 grams
I was hoping for 160-180 grams from this one but it was my lowest weight. Lollipop and swchaze.

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Clone 4 = 149 grams
The heaviest plant by a hair. Lollipop and 2 swchaze.

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I think that we can say that defoliation does't add weight but I'm going to do it anyway because I'm comfortable with the method.

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The first Time I grew this strain I was using a black dog lamp and got 405 grams for all 4 plants.

This time, every thing the same except the light, I grew 569 grams, 164 grams more, An increase in harvest of 40%.

The BD had only 7 grows on it, it shouldn't have gone dim already.

Hat's off to the HGL Scorpion Diablo!

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Hobbes said:

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All 4 cans of bud, 1 gallon can per plant, have balanced at 62% RH so its time to see who was right with their predictions.

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View attachment 5146366

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Clone 1 = 140 grams

Clone 1 had no defoliation and lots of larf low in the canopy.

.

clone 2 = 142 grams

This plant was lollipop but only had a minor variance in weight.

.

Clone 3 = 138 grams
I was hoping for 160-180 grams from this one but it was my lowest weight. Lollipop and swchaze.

.

Clone 4 = 149 grams
The heaviest plant by a hair. Lollipop and 2 swchaze.

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I think that we can say that defoliation does't add weight but I'm going to do it anyway because I'm comfortable with the method.

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Click to expand...

Surprisingly uniform yields. Slight differences in trim and sticks could account for the differences.

Horselover fat said:

Surprisingly uniform yields. Slight differences in trim and sticks could account for the differences.

Click to expand...

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I'm surprised that the weights were so close together too.

Looking back on my trimming I think the defoliated plants had denser bud and the non-defoliated plants were a couple of inches tall but larf 4 or 5 inches into the canopy.

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Defoliate and end up asking "where's the bud?" after the sugar leaves get massive and swallow up the bud sites.

Just my experience. Buds aren't good at photosynthesis. Leaves are.

Saw this article posted at another site and thought some of you would like to take a look at the finding of this side by side. I have a feeling it's going to get a bunch of members on roll it up butt hurt with the findings...rofl
Let the excuses of why this is flawed begin...lol

JustBlazin said:

Saw this article posted at another site and thought some of you would like to take a look at the finding of this side by side. I have a feeling it's going to get a bunch of members on roll it up butt hurt with the findings...rofl

Summary of Cannabis Defoliation Side-by-Side Experiment | Grow Weed Easy

by Nebula Haze The results are in! Have you ever heard of the cannabis flowering stage defoliation technique? It involves strategically removing leaves when the buds are first forming on marijuana plants. The goal is to expose buds to plenty of light and air, which seems to increase overall...

www.growweedeasy.com

Let the excuses of why this is flawed begin...lol

Click to expand...

I think that there are a huge amount of variables involved in the defoliation vs no defoliation debate. I don't believe that simply removing leaves is helpful to any plant that has plenty of light or more importantly good light penetration, but it could be helpful in situations where light penetration is limited for whatever reason.

Take a look at how close together the plants are growing in the side-by-side linked above, there is very little to no light getting beyond the canopy of the budding plants pictured in that trail. I would never grow my plants that close together and I don't know that most people would, so it doesn't actually surprise me that they came up with those results. The light penetration in a setup like that is shit you would have to remove leaves if you want light to get beyond the first few inches.
So if you grow in a similar way as in that side-by-side trial as far as spacing then defoliation could be a helpful tool to achieve the light penetration levels required to grow weed well. But if you grow with more spacing and plenty light penetration then defoliation is not helpful in my opinion, I think it all comes down to your particular growing method. Indoor vs outdoor is a big variable in this discussion as well, as it has to do with light penetration. Indoor lighting quantity/penetration changes drastically based on the distance from the light, whereas outdoor this is not the case at all.

So in conclusion sometimes defoliation can be helpful and sometimes you wont see a benefit depending on how you are growing, sometimes it can be harmful. It all depends on how, where, when, and why you apply defoliation.
People have a need to simplify things into being categorically good or bad but most good things in life actually fit into the as-needed category. Often times defoliation is not needed, but for some it could be.

Thanks to the OP for taking the time to conduct this side by side and posting the results for us.

Funkentelechy said:

I think that there are a huge amount of variables involved in the defoliation vs no defoliation debate. I don't believe that simply removing leaves is helpful to any plant that has plenty of light or more importantly good light penetration, but it could be helpful in situations where light penetration is limited for whatever reason.

Take a look at how close together the plants are growing in the side-by-side linked above, there is very little to no light getting beyond the canopy of the budding plants pictured in that trail. I would never grow my plants that close together and I don't know that most people would, so it doesn't actually surprise me that they came up with those results. The light penetration in a setup like that is shit you would have to remove leaves if you want light to get beyond the first few inches.
So if you grow in a similar way as in that side-by-side trial as far as spacing then defoliation could be a helpful tool to achieve the light penetration levels required to grow weed well. But if you grow with more spacing and plenty light penetration then defoliation is not helpful in my opinion, I think it all comes down to your particular growing method. Indoor vs outdoor is a big variable in this discussion as well, as it has to do with light penetration. Indoor lighting quantity/penetration changes drastically based on the distance from the light, whereas outdoor this is not the case at all.

So in conclusion sometimes defoliation can be helpful and sometimes you wont see a benefit depending on how you are growing, sometimes it can be harmful. It all depends on how, where, when, and why you apply defoliation.
People have a need to simplify things into being categorically good or bad but most good things in life actually fit into the as-needed category. Often times defoliation is not needed, but for some it could be.

Click to expand...

Pretty sure they stated some of what you said in the article.
That it's not for evey situation and outdoor has no limit on light penetration.

Thank you for conducting this comparison and sharing it.

When I find a new cut that I like, I like to push at least one clone with extreme defoliation to see the full range of how that specific cut reacts to it. Some plants get stunted horribly from extreme defol, while it triggers greatly increased growth in other genotypes. Each specific cut reacts to it differently. I also think it can be useful to stress plants a bit when picking keepers.

@Rurumo sorry I forgot to quote you

That seems like useful insight, thank you. I am not a grower of long experience, on my second grow and outdoor. I have done some defol both grows, extreme and moderate. I originally began with the goal of bigger buds of course, but if I don't get that I do feel I get improved light penetration and air flow. Secondary to that, here in the run-up to harvest I can see better when looking for signs of trouble and won't have as much to trim at harvest.

If you know of photo strains that have phenos that respond well to aggressive defol, is there any way you might share some of that info ? Next year I'm wanting to grow Shogun and Holy Grail.

Rurumo said:

I've always noticed strong growth following some defoliation

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I never understood why plants grew more vigorously after pruning.
Just 'regular' plants when I was reluctantly dragged out to do garden work as a kid.

It took me 25 year's to work out an explanation for myself, and that epiphany came from my fist weed grow.

Here's my theory:

Imagine the plant as a factory.
The roots are the raw materials arrivals input section.
The plant branches and leaves are the manufacturing production line.
The fruit and flowers are the output produced goods.

Now, for example, let's chop off one lower branch.

The factory now has one less production line running.
The factory still has the same amount of input material arriving.

So my logic is that the remaining production lines have to speed up to process the undiminished inputs from the existing root system. Hence we observe 'stimulated' growth.

TaoRich said:

So my logic is that the remaining production lines have to speed up to process the undiminished inputs from the existing root system. Hence we observe 'stimulated' growth.

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Not claiming more yield.

Same yield from same input, just distributed differently.

TaoRich said:

I never understood why plants grew more vigorously after pruning.
Just 'regular' plants when I was reluctantly dragged out to do garden work as a kid.

It took me 25 year's to work out an explanation for myself, and that epiphany came from my fist weed grow.

Here's my theory:

Imagine the plant as a factory.
The roots are the raw materials arrivals input section.
The plant branches and leaves are the manufacturing production line.
The fruit and flowers are the output produced goods.

Now, for example, let's chop off one lower branch.

The factory now has one less production line running.
The factory still has the same amount of input material arriving.

So my logic is that the remaining production lines have to speed up to process the undiminished inputs from the existing root system. Hence we observe 'stimulated' growth.

Click to expand...

Overcompensation has been a major topic of study for decades, this might interest you https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6850278/

potpimp said:

Great find; I'm reading it now. I have noticed that when I let my herbs (basil, cilantro, sage, etc) grow, they seemed to stall out. When the wife needed some culinary herbs, I cut them and noticed that a week later they had grown back vigorously. I'm not sure if herbivores eating the fan leaves are a real "threat" to MJ, but I'm enjoying this experiment and anxiously awaiting the final results.

Click to expand...

It's no different in nature, as a rabbit or Deer would graze on a plant and it comes back stronger.

Hobbes said:

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The first Time I grew this strain I was using a black dog lamp and got 405 grams for all 4 plants.

This time, every thing the same except the light, I grew 569 grams, 164 grams more, An increase in harvest of 40%.

The BD had only 7 grows on it, it shouldn't have gone dim already.

Hat's off to the HGL Scorpion Diablo!

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Click to expand...

Hobbes, great test, I have found that yields do increase, maybe not enough, but have notice that bud formation if far superior.
I have switched to the Scorpion Diablo also and love the light, have not harvested yet with this light, but two weeks into flower.
Did a semi defo at start of flower and these LSD plants from Barneys Farm have grown back very thick. At day 21 when I do a major defo we will see how they respond.
I am also running the Active Aqua Gro and Flo in six pots. I just got another set of pots to expand my grow to nine plants which may be too much for my 5 X 5 but we will see.
Pic of original set up, and where they are at two week flower. Thinking this may get crowded in there.




Will see where this leads.