Diablo OG In Dual Monster Plant System
- Thread starter lordjin
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lordjin
Well-Known Member
Striving not to disappoint journal junkies, here is an extra big photo update tonight. Despite all we've seen, I don't think the show is quite over just yet.
These last two show the main cola area of plant 2. Remember, this started as the larger, stronger plant in veg. It's pulled down main cola area is smaller than the cluster of colas that formed at its tail end. These are nowhere near colas of plant 1, but they're showing some promise.
These last two show the main cola area of plant 2. Remember, this started as the larger, stronger plant in veg. It's pulled down main cola area is smaller than the cluster of colas that formed at its tail end. These are nowhere near colas of plant 1, but they're showing some promise.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
I stick to a strict weekly flush regimen every time I change water. After pumping out the old week's solution, I refill with plain RO and let the whole thing run, flushing main pump and chiller line, for 30-45 minutes. The plants react very well to this. This paired with the float switch activated external res auto-topper (that will refill to float line with fresh water if the level should fall even slightly) keeps the system pretty fresh and robust. Having to inject with a jar of fresh concentrate mix regularly to keep the PPM level up acts sort of as an active 'constant water change / nute refresh' rhythm cycle with the auto topper. This effectively eliminates nute build-up completely. I've developed this sort of 'rhythm' of feeding that works pretty great. I would recommend this type of feeding to anyone wanting to know more. With what I have going, I could probably let the thing run for weeks on end without changing the water, but I do it every week without fail anyway to raise the ceiling of quality. In between water change flushes are more important than you might think, kiddies!
lordjin
Well-Known Member
I love how everyone has their own style. Yeah, flush at res-change is pretty standard practice among vets.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
Are you out there? Am I the only one? Come on...
Anyone running large volume hydro needs one of these things. One of the bad-asses on here has me hooked on the idea of this 'undercurrent' method of hydro that looks fucking amazing (you know who you are). I figure I could rig my auto-topper to that 'control station' bucket in a system like that with an auxiliary res acting as the auto-top source. The marriage of undercurrent principles with the auto-topper is a match made in heaven. That, with my chiller cooling the whole thing as it runs makes a system worth noting. I'm gonna do it for my expansion project.
The auto topper is simply a grounded on/off switch that is activated by the simple falling of a flotation device. It's great and not expensive. What many of you may think of as an ultra-fancy bell or whistle will quickly become an essential tool that you never knew what you did before without it, know what I mean?
EDIT:
Oh, and what is going to make a multiple unit monster undercurrent system the shit, of course, is the tri-meter rigged to it. If I cannibalize my gear to an under-current, whoa, watch out. Ideally, I would need another tri-meter, one for the mother shack and one for the undercurrent. So much to buy, so little money.
Anyone running large volume hydro needs one of these things. One of the bad-asses on here has me hooked on the idea of this 'undercurrent' method of hydro that looks fucking amazing (you know who you are). I figure I could rig my auto-topper to that 'control station' bucket in a system like that with an auxiliary res acting as the auto-top source. The marriage of undercurrent principles with the auto-topper is a match made in heaven. That, with my chiller cooling the whole thing as it runs makes a system worth noting. I'm gonna do it for my expansion project.
The auto topper is simply a grounded on/off switch that is activated by the simple falling of a flotation device. It's great and not expensive. What many of you may think of as an ultra-fancy bell or whistle will quickly become an essential tool that you never knew what you did before without it, know what I mean?
EDIT:
Oh, and what is going to make a multiple unit monster undercurrent system the shit, of course, is the tri-meter rigged to it. If I cannibalize my gear to an under-current, whoa, watch out. Ideally, I would need another tri-meter, one for the mother shack and one for the undercurrent. So much to buy, so little money.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
I think this may effectively be a rival for aeroponics. The more I think about it, the more I seem to understand that the water movement enriched with tiny air particles is intended to replace the active feeding/circulation that aero-sprayers provide.
I'm wondering, would the fact that the pump is being run externally in-line reduce if not eliminate pump heat you get with a submersible running constantly in the res itself? I think this would mean my chiller would have to work a little less hard and only have to deal with the warming of the water from the lights.
This aero-dwc hybrid tub I made is pretty primitive by comparison and not nearly as well suited for larger volume growing. I look forward to exploring this "under-current" aspect of hydroponic growing and adding little tweaks of my own to the concept.
I'm wondering, would the fact that the pump is being run externally in-line reduce if not eliminate pump heat you get with a submersible running constantly in the res itself? I think this would mean my chiller would have to work a little less hard and only have to deal with the warming of the water from the lights.
This aero-dwc hybrid tub I made is pretty primitive by comparison and not nearly as well suited for larger volume growing. I look forward to exploring this "under-current" aspect of hydroponic growing and adding little tweaks of my own to the concept.
dsmoke1
Active Member
Dude! You're getting it. An auto-topper and tri-meter are definitely bells and whistles on the Cadillac if you know what I mean. I can tell your mind is working on something awesome. Undercurrent DWC is something, that from what I can tell, not many are doing. The ones who are, are having unparalleled success. It's hard to not sound like I'm trying to sell something when it's just that simple and effective. The principles are rudimentary, but man do they make sense. This is like NFT on crystal meth. Your plants roots are not floating in a little stream of solution, or a stagnant pond, but instead they are met with turbulent rapids and a constant source of oxygen and rich nutrients that are always changing yet always the same. I know you're sitting down scheming right now, and that's a good idea. You're going to blow yourself away with this... Watch 
- I don't even need see the final product and I'm already an advocate. It's just that simple.
- I don't even need see the final product and I'm already an advocate. It's just that simple.medicine21
Active Member
thcfarmer is your source for UC journals. Many guys running the systems there with mixed success. Some kill it, some get killed by it and return to their old ways. There's a lot of hype for UC and I gotta say I was taken by it as well. However, not far enough to actually fork over the $$$ for a system and the required chiller. After researching for a few months I have come to the conclusion that the UC does not really yield more than other setups. Many different opinions as with anything else, but there appears to be a consensus on a few things at least: 1. UC plants consume a lot less nutes - have to go reeeal slow and easy or get burned. 2. Plants take a bit longer to finish 3. A chiller is a must
dirk d
Active Member
i think more important than the system being run is the grower. if you master your system you can get excellent yields regardless if you grow dirt, hydro, aero or UC. its all about dialing your system in and maximizing your potential. from what iv seen 2 plants in a UC by jin rivals any system iv seen so far. I would much rather run fewer plants that yield more than more plants yielding less. that being said im going to have to up my game if im going to keep watching this thread. lol
dsmoke1
Active Member
Seen that too. Most of the guys having problems with UC are running 50 plants in a warehouse. One leak and the whole system drains. Various other problems too, like guys not knowing that they can stretch nutes much longer and overfeeding. Aside from that, those were just janky grows. I've seen shitty aero grows. I've seen super shitty soil grows. Seen them all dialed down too. Undercurrent rocks in the right hands.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Dirk. You are so right about the person being the main factor over equipment. In music, do we ever say that Eddie Van Halen is better than Hendrix was because he had a better/different guitar or vise versa? No.
I am a bigger fan of fewer larger plants mainly because medical patients have a six adult plant limit in California. With a possible undercurrent for me, I would focus on six eighteen gallon bins and the security of their seals. I can see how a leak or leaks would cause a problem in a system like that. And with so much water movement, if your seals aren't perfect, you'll have a very wet problem. The other thing I noticed about that undercurrent thing is that if you pop a 45 Liter per minute air pump in the mix with a heavy stone blasting right under the root zone in each container, they'll do great purely in a stagnant DWC situation and the flow pump can be put on a timer to customize flow periods. The theory is awesome and the possibilities seem endless, but I'm gonna observe for sure what others are doing with it before I move forward.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I've got time to do a little research and I def will study it more. I've found that MASSIVE oxygen is essential. I've seen a startling improvement in plant/system performance simply from increasing the oxygen quotient significantly. I'm pretty latched onto the fact that any kind of water delivery system should be considered as nothing more than medium for the oxygen. So I'm thinking that increasing the oxygen to something greater than what most of the UC users are doing would change the basic system and amp it up more. Also, I have a 1/10 hp chiller that works like a soldier, so I feel pretty good about trying this.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
You all make such excellent points. Hard for me to take sides in a good debate in my own journal. Lol!
Yeah, dude, eye to eye with you on that one. Anything can be so-so in the wrong hands and by reverse, anything can be GREAT in the right hands. I can see problems trying to run a giant 50 plant network this way... I think I would stick to traditional flood and drain for a grow of that kind of volume. And I'm used to aero feeding requirements which have way lower ppms than average hydro nute requirements, so I already tend towards a pretty light touch (at first). Really, when it comes to feeding, the plants tell you all you need to know and the digital instruments just become a verification by numbers. I've noticed that when the roots start getting monster, you see the plant super erect and growing like nuts, you can add more nutes... but always depending upon how your plants look. That's rule number one in my book.
I dig this side discussion developing. It helps to kill time until my next update.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
Another thing I love, love, love about that UC configuration is the immensity of the training possibilities it provides. I can see laying the stalks of the clones downward into the area above the plumbing. All those bin edges and pvc pipes would serves as perfect anchor points for string. I really do like taking the time to train with string ties rather than throwing a screen over the whole thing... I think it's more elegant and you have finer control over your train strategy.
I'm convinced that with the kind of training I mentioned above, a UC running six giant plants in individual 18 gallon bins, under say a pair of 1000watters, 3 pounds easy.
I'm convinced that with the kind of training I mentioned above, a UC running six giant plants in individual 18 gallon bins, under say a pair of 1000watters, 3 pounds easy.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
Yeah, you've gotten me pretty pumped on the idea. The timing couldn't have been better really, because there was no way I was going to expand to six plants in a wider space with this same kind of tub I'm using for this tight enclosure. The thing I'm using now will be reduced to a mother shack... Maybe I'll convert to LED and move my HID to the UC tent to join another 1000watter? We'll see...Dude! You're getting it. An auto-topper and tri-meter are definitely bells and whistles on the Cadillac if you know what I mean. I can tell your mind is working on something awesome. Undercurrent DWC is something, that from what I can tell, not many are doing. The ones who are, are having unparalleled success. It's hard to not sound like I'm trying to sell something when it's just that simple and effective. The principles are rudimentary, but man do they make sense. This is like NFT on crystal meth. Your plants roots are not floating in a little stream of solution, or a stagnant pond, but instead they are met with turbulent rapids and a constant source of oxygen and rich nutrients that are always changing yet always the same. I know you're sitting down scheming right now, and that's a good idea. You're going to blow yourself away with this... Watch