Diagnosis of stunted plant, help please!

J

JejuneStar

Member
Howdy folks, these two plants are about three weeks from sprouting in the young pictures.They are under a 400W hps lamp with a MH conversion bulb. My cab is running at 78-83F . My question is about the leaf shape on the thinner stunted plant, stress, diff strain?
-Both plants are getting identical treatment except that the stunted plant is under LST and the vigorous one was topped
-Acapulco Gold feminized from Barneys Farm seeds.
- 60/40 organic potting mix/light warrior
-feeding with grow big FF
-the tiny one in the group shot is a different strain

3/15 -- Transplanted & fed GrowBig at ¼ dilution – light at 15in
3/28 -- Fed with one teaspoon per gallon
4/2 -- Lowered light to a little under 12in, fed1tsp per half gallon plus about 10 drops of Superthrive

View attachment 1528461CIMG0047.jpgCIMG0046.jpgCIMG0031.jpgCIMG0048.jpgCIMG0064.jpg
 
Lord Dangly Bits

Lord Dangly Bits

Well-Known Member
They both look stunted from under watering to me. That soil looks bone dry.. But, hell I do not know becasuse I am not there.
 
J

JejuneStar

Member
Thank you for the responses! I just watered them and will increase the frequency of watering. Im looking for some type of material to lay on top of the soil to aid in moisture retention, any suggestions? I know of lava rocks being used, but that does not seem logical.
 
Lord Dangly Bits

Lord Dangly Bits

Well-Known Member
How are you watering them? I have know people to just mist the soil until the top is moist. SOAK THAT SHIT DOWN. Then let it dry out for 3-5 days, then give them another good watering. Rinse, repeat. You should not have to force the soil retain water. What the hell? you wanting to water them once a summer?
 
Brimi

Brimi

Well-Known Member
That single plant could be a bad pheno type, that will just never gro right.
If you really think its because they're too dry (they need to be COMPLETELY dry to be too dry - if there's just a little moist left in the dirt this is not your problem) But then you need to be carefull not to start overwatering instead since this is a waay more comon mistake.
 
Lord Dangly Bits

Lord Dangly Bits

Well-Known Member
Brimi said:
That single plant could be a bad pheno type, that will just never gro right.
If you really think its because they're too dry (they need to be COMPLETELY dry to be too dry - if there's just a little moist left in the dirt this is not your problem) But then you need to be carefull not to start overwatering instead since this is a waay more comon mistake.
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What you say is true, But i have found that most people take their photos and such after they have watered. Not just before they have watered. Like I said in the first post of mine, I am not there. But that soil is crispy dry. At least in looks. It might be totally different 2 inches down.
 
jawbrodt

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
I'll agree with those guys, in that it appears that you need to step up the watering, a little. I also see some heat stress(turned up edges of the leaves) which would also indicate possible underwatering, and/or lights being too close, without the air circulation(air-cooling, and/or fans blowing directly on the tops themselves) to compensate.


As for the difference in looks...they look like different strains, to me. Could be different phenos, I s'pose, but I've never seen them vary THAT much. But, with Mother Nature, anything's possible......lol
 
J

JejuneStar

Member
Thanks for all the reply's my friends, I appreciate your time & knowledge.
Lord Dangly Bits said:
How are you watering them? I have know people to just mist the soil until the top is moist. SOAK THAT SHIT DOWN. Then let it dry out for 3-5 days, then give them another good watering. Rinse, repeat. You should not have to force the soil retain water. What the hell? you wanting to water them once a summer?
Click to expand...
They are in 3 gal nursery pots and I am watering(about a quarter gal per container) about once every 2 or 3 days, at that length of time the soil is almost completely devoid of moisture. - Its a very tight fit in my cab; though it never runs above 85 degrees, the fan power required to achieve this cooling seems to be drying out the soil very quickly

- The stunted plant grows steadily each day, almost as fast as the good plant. But its stems are always super tender and malleable. So if it is simply a bad phenotype, do you think its final yield will be as limp & lame as its current turgor pressure? Will it even be able to hold up the weight of a main cola?
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Defo looks like a heat problem, can't see any nute deficiency or over nute. Plants are small, stunted and pic 5 loewer fan leaves could defo be a heat problem. I love to chime in with my 2 cents worth and would say back of the fertilizer, lower the temps and some hydroton on top of the soil, i just cover my pots with card and that retains a lot of soil moisture. If you want to be sure take a plant out of the grow room and leave it in a well lit room which is cooler for two days, yes it will not have the same light as the grow room but if it perks up a little and shows signs of growth then it is definatly a heat problem. Imho if the soil dries out quickly due to the heat you can be guaranteed that the bottom of the pot is not. You water the pot cause the top dries out but the bottom of the pot retains moisture for longer, eventually root rot sets in and hey presto another problem. Once i put hydroton under the pot in the saucer to lift the pot up and allow the moisture at the bottom of the pot to evaporate at an even rate to the top through the holes manufactures conviniently put in the base of the pots.
 
Lord Dangly Bits

Lord Dangly Bits

Well-Known Member
Once you allow you soil to dry out completely, giving it 1/4 a gallon of water does not seem to be enough water to get the soil fully soaked. Are you seeing a good amount of water run out the bottom of the pot? I use 2 gallon grow bags, and if I allow them to dry out completely, I can give them almost a gallon of water before i see run off. but this depends on the grow medium.
 
J

JejuneStar

Member
Kingrow1 said:
Defo looks like a heat problem, can't see any nute deficiency or over nute. Plants are small, stunted and pic 5 loewer fan leaves could defo be a heat problem. I love to chime in with my 2 cents worth and would say back of the fertilizer, lower the temps and some hydroton on top of the soil, i just cover my pots with card and that retains a lot of soil moisture. If you want to be sure take a plant out of the grow room and leave it in a well lit room which is cooler for two days, yes it will not have the same light as the grow room but if it perks up a little and shows signs of growth then it is definatly a heat problem. Imho if the soil dries out quickly due to the heat you can be guaranteed that the bottom of the pot is not. You water the pot cause the top dries out but the bottom of the pot retains moisture for longer, eventually root rot sets in and hey presto another problem. Once i put hydroton under the pot in the saucer to lift the pot up and allow the moisture at the bottom of the pot to evaporate at an even rate to the top through the holes manufactures conviniently put in the base of the pots.
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Gracias!
This evening the better looking plant was drooping heavily(this is a first). I took your advice and pulled both plants out of the cab to sit in ambient room temp, which is about 67 deg F. Within two hours the stunted plant demonstrated an uprightness & increase in turgor that I had never seen before! The condition of the droopy plant however, has not changed.

Lord Dangly Bits said:
Once you allow you soil to dry out completely, giving it 1/4 a gallon of water does not seem to be enough water to get the soil fully soaked. Are you seeing a good amount of water run out the bottom of the pot? I use 2 gallon grow bags, and if I allow them to dry out completely, I can give them almost a gallon of water before i see run off. but this depends on the grow medium.
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Thank you,
I have not been using enough water so that it drains from the bottom. I will be adopting your method; I was under the impression that you only completely saturate the medium during transplanting/potting?
 
J

JejuneStar

Member
Some updated pics.
-Just switched to 12/12
-Swapped my HM conversion bulb for the HPS(seems to be running cooler, interesting...)
CIMG0110.jpgCIMG0112.jpgCIMG0103.jpgCIMG0104.jpgCIMG0111.jpg
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
I am glad that one plant showed a change when put in cooler temperatures, dose look like a bit of heat stress but high nutes or poor watering practices might amplify this. I always water my plants so that i get a bit of drainage, keeps the soil ph and salt build ups to more acceptable levels but when i water i know that within a week the soil will be bone dry and due another watering and allowing the soil to breath.
 
J

JejuneStar

Member
Thank you so much everyone! I know it has been forever and I will be getting some more pictures up soon. I have a question though.
My roommate who is taking care of the plants for me is saying that my ruderalis and my AP golds are ready for harvest because most of the hairs are red. Both strains have been under 12/12 light for 7 weeks. The ap gold seed bank claims 70-75 days of flowering time (maybe this is for outdoors?) and the ruderalis seed bank claims 7 weeks spout to harvest under 24 hours of light. I thought visual color identification of the trichromes was the best way to determine the ripeness of the bud, is my roommate wrong?

ALSO, all of my beautiful fan leaves on the AP Gold are completely yellow and falling off! I'm using foxfarm bloom booster per directions on the bottle every other watering. Is this normal??? its only been 7 weeks of 12/12?????
 
sukeface

sukeface

Member
I had the same heat problem with my first hyrdo set up in the closet. i also had to much RH for my plant with bad venting. r u venting out any heat at all or just letting it get trapped at the growing space
 
Lord Dangly Bits

Lord Dangly Bits

Well-Known Member
Show us Pictures. yello-wing of the fan leafs during flowering happens because of the low Nitrogen in the flowering Nuts. Pictures and info would help a lot.

And yes, you want to look at the trichs for about 15-30% of them being amber color and the rest cloudy. Go to radio shack and pick up a mini microscope. Cut off a trich covered leaf and place it on the counter and then look at the trichs. the scope in like $12 USD
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
I just wait till most of the calyx's swell and the pistil's receed back into the calyx and then i harvest, there are lots of ways but this is mine, i use to use a microscope but just go by the visual appearence of the bud.
 
jawbrodt

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
I just wait till most of the calyx's swell and the pistil's receed back into the calyx and then i harvest, there are lots of ways but this is mine, i use to use a microscope but just go by the visual appearence of the bud.
Click to expand...

That's a good method too, but takes experience. It's sooo hard to describe to somebody just HOW swollen, or HOW receded, that it's much better for a new guy to look at his trichs, so he has a better idea if he's harvesting at the right time, or not. Personally, I harvest early, mid, and late, for a bit of variety(or if my stash is low.lol).
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Yer i hear you jawbrodt, but i found the microscope method hard as well, i can see my tric's go amber with my naked eye but i can get up real close to the buds and like the visual method personally, it is hard to describe swollen to someone, people think just because the hairs go red it's ready but i see it as when they receed back into the calyx. I like to harvest late as my lower buds always take a bit longer than my top colas.
 
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