Did I screw up or is this genetics?

Hey Folks, just a general question about what to expect from two seeds of the same strain. I'm growing TGA Jillybean -- noted on the subcool site as having two phenotypes, one taller and lankier, one shorter and bushier.

Four weeks ago, I germed two seeds and, following the label directions, fed them 1/4 strength AN Micro nutes. However, I think I mismeasured at the time, and it was probably stronger than that. Anyway, one seedling died of damping off disease. The surviver seemed to be doing okay, though her growth was SLOW. I figured that out because...

After the one seedling died I germed another seed because I have a two-pot set up. This one I treated right -- no nutes at all (I learned!). She flourished, and with 5 or 6 days was more advanced in leaf sets and root growth than her sister, who is a full week older. I've corrected my nute strengths, so going forward I feel good about using the AN Micro, Grow and Bloom at 1/2 label strength.

The second seedling continues to grow ridiculously fast ... the first is developing, but everything is much smaller and slower. And here are the photos:

These two are of the two together. Left is the older plant, now 4 weeks from germ. Right is the younger, now 3 weeks from germ.


Here is a close up of the older plant:


And here is a close up of the younger plant, taken at the same distance:


So here are my questions:
1) Am I seeing two phenotypes? Or did I stunt the first by mishandling her?
2) If both are female, their high be the same since they're both Jillybean? Or will it be different because they look so different?
3) If one is male, I was going to collect pollen for seeding. Let's say they're both male. I should collect the pollen and label it A and B. I should then use A to pollinate females of the shorter, stockier kind, and then use B to pollinate taller, lankier females, in order to narrow the phenotype range. Does that sound reasonable?

Thanks for your opinions!
KG

Different pheno as you suspect.

Could be different pheno's but it will be really hard for you to tell which phenotypes are being expressed already, looks to be fine just a little retarded due to your earlier mistakes. Give them another two to three weeks and the smaller will most likely catch up.

Also it seems you may have some temperature issues, what's your temps like?

If they are opposing pheno's count yourself lucky and pray for females, you may have some choice with your jillybean strain.

regards,

Also make sure you don't overwater!

O and that's hydro. I'm fired. Disregard the first comment. I know virtually nothing of hydro. But the other 2 stand.

Do you always have the fan pointing on the smaller one? Could be slowing growth down. I know my plants don't like a fan blowing directly on them, especially none stop. Unless it's a really weak fan, which, mine is not.

ru4r34l said:

Could be different pheno's but it will be really hard for you to tell which phenotypes are being expressed already, looks to be fine just a little retarded due to your earlier mistakes. Give them another two to three weeks and the smaller will most likely catch up.

Also it seems you may have some temperature issues, what's your temps like?

If they are opposing pheno's count yourself lucky and pray for females, you may have some choice with your jillybean strain.

regards,

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Thanks, ru2r341!

My temps started off high because I'm using a grow tent and hadn't realized I need to push cool air into the tent from the bottom. I think I had a 100 degree day in there, then a bunch in the 90s, then high 80s. Now I have a fan pushing cool air in -- room air is 74 or so and the temp inside the tent under the light (I measure at leaf height) is low 80s.

Humidity, however, is low -- 40% is typical, though today its 50%. I have two pans of water in there trying to add humidity. And I mist once in a while but under that 400MH light it evaporates super fast so I'm not sure its helping.

Yes, if they're both female I will be very careful to separate and label and see whether there's an appreciable difference between the two. And if so, I'll try to find a like male at some point so I can pollinate what I like.

Thanks!

dabumps said:

) Am I seeing two phenotypes? Or did I stunt the first by mishandling her? The other one might have developed tamping off later and it is letting it go but not much as time progresses you might get wilting and a very slow death. Take that plastic off the top of your pots That is what is keeping moisture in and causing your tamping off issues, not sure why it is there anyway.

2) If both are female, their high be the same since they're both Jillybean? Or will it be different because they look so different? I hope they are both ok and that short one is a female. That pheno is nicknamed "candystore" it's the shorter pheno and it's sub's fav pheno of JB.

3) If one is male, I was going to collect pollen for seeding. Let's say they're both male. I should collect the pollen and label it A and B. I should then use A to pollinate females of the shorter, stockier kind, and then use B to pollinate taller, lankier females, in order to narrow the phenotype range. Does that sound reasonable? I would take pollen from A and disregard B all together. Candystore is where it's at. If that is what you have you are a lucky man. It's quite the recessive pheno.

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Thanks, Dabumps!

The damping off happened when the rockwool cubes were in a germination tray. I'm doing a hydro set up, and just added the black garbage bags because algae slimed my plants! Underneath, the stems are in really good shape -- getting tough and woody. I check them every day.

And thanks for the tip on the preferred phenotype! I will cross my fingers on the stubbier plant being female, but if it's male I'll definitely keep the pollen for future "candy store" breeding.

dabumps said:

O and that's hydro. I'm fired. Disregard the first comment. I know virtually nothing of hydro. But the other 2 stand.

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Got it, thanks!

And +rep for everyone who has responded!

billybob420 said:

Do you always have the fan pointing on the smaller one? Could be slowing growth down. I know my plants don't like a fan blowing directly on them, especially none stop. Unless it's a really weak fan, which, mine is not.

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Thanks Billybob!

I will adjust the fan for less direct current. I had originally put it in that position to help the stalk toughen a bit -- initially I had to stake her up because her stem was so weak. But she's definitely standing on her own now, so I'll readjust.

Just enough air movement to move the leaves around a little is plenty fine. Pointing the fan over the top of the fans is what I do.

I actually point mine upwards a bit to try and move the hot air away from the plants. Since you're having some temp issues, that may be advisable. Of course, it only helps the temps so much (not much).

im thinking you may have stressed the first one with the nutrients and now it is recovering. it takes a little while to recover from being stressed so like others have mentioned just give it some time and you should be fine .

Sure looks to me like stunting from over nuts. I know I have done it myself to many times. But it looks like it is recovering very nicely. I agree a light whisper of air over the seedlings I have found to be best. It helps to strengthen the stems. Is this your first grow. If so you are doing great man, and it only gets better from here as you learn. My first grow was a disaster. But I learned a lot from all the mistakes I made and from the nice peeps on this site.

Keep up the good work and good growing man

RetiredMatthebrute said:

im thinking you may have stressed the first one with the nutrients and now it is recovering. it takes a little while to recover from being stressed so like others have mentioned just give it some time and you should be fine .

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Thanks! I'm glad to know that the plant can make a recovery and at the end do as well, or almost as well, as if there hadn't been a problem. I was feeling kinda bad that she might never be the plant she could have been because I was over-zealous. Plus, it's a lot of work and time to get to harvest! I want the best output I can get!

gom said:

Sure looks to me like stunting from over nuts. I know I have done it myself to many times. But it looks like it is recovering very nicely. I agree a light whisper of air over the seedlings I have found to be best. It helps to strengthen the stems. Is this your first grow. If so you are doing great man, and it only gets better from here as you learn. My first grow was a disaster. But I learned a lot from all the mistakes I made and from the nice peeps on this site.

Keep up the good work and good growing man

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Thanks, Gom. Yes, it is my first grow. Just trying not to screw up too much. Have already learned a ton. Just on this grow alone, from the one seed to the second, I learned so much and can see the positive results from it.

Thanks to everyone here at RIU for the great information they're so willing to share...! +rep for the whole damn site!

kryptoniteglo said:

Thanks! I'm glad to know that the plant can make a recovery and at the end do as well, or almost as well, as if there hadn't been a problem. I was feeling kinda bad that she might never be the plant she could have been because I was over-zealous. Plus, it's a lot of work and time to get to harvest! I want the best output I can get!

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The canibis plant is extremely versatile and resiliant, you can hack it down to 1 leaf and the plant will make a comeback. i have snapped 2 ft tall plants right in half at the stem and taped it back together and it continued to grow the next day, healed completly in a week and was like nothing ever happened.

best of luck to you man