DiY LED - Cree CXA3070
- Thread starter SupraSPL
- Start date
bicit
Well-Known Member
This, topics been derailed enough as is. Neither one is necessarily better than the other, 'organic' is undeniably more sustainable. I think that's about the jist of it.
I've got most of the tools I need to start construction. I got my drill press and center punches in, but I forgot to order bits, taps, and oil... that was silly.
Anyone want to buy some Meanwell LPC-60-1400 drivers? I have 10 with no purpose that I can't return.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
this is supras thread and he can talk about what he wants. organics is part of growing and the best method.. environmentally and health wise. smoking chem grown bud will lead to the hospital life. Cancer , respiraratory issues , metal poisoning, etc.. this is a growing forum is it not. Despite the title of the thread all aspects of growing should be welcome in any thread.
Most of the cob subject matter has been covered already..
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
I wish there was a "like, but disagree with one part" button. 
(Chemicals will give you cancer. It's a proven fact. Hyroot told me so. You know, it's actually been proven that 100% of the people who eat/drink 'chemicals' at one point or another will die.)
(Chemicals will give you cancer. It's a proven fact. Hyroot told me so. You know, it's actually been proven that 100% of the people who eat/drink 'chemicals' at one point or another will die.)
Last edited:
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I wish there was a "like, but disagree with one part" button.
(Chemicals will give you cancer. It's a proven fact. Hyroot told me so. You know, it's actually been proven that 100% of the people who eat/drink 'chemicals' at one point or another will die.)
well tell that to my family friend who was denied spinal implants of having too much heavy metals in his system from dispensary pot. He is a big organic head like me. makes his own food and doesn't ever eat out.. he doesn't grow pot. he smokes heavily for the pain of his spinal injury..
theres hundreds of studies from various universities to support that. just use google
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
First of all, I'm very sorry to hear about your family friend. Heavy metal poisoning is supposed to be pretty bad.
My salts don't have heavy metals in them. Why would they? Earth on the other hand.... Well... right off the bat you've got your aluminum. That's no good. I don't put aluminum in my tank. "Others" includes mercury and lead. You realize that soil can even have uranium in it. Soil is a mixed bag, of chemicals. That's why I call BS on the pretentious literal fermenting shit and piss. Soil growers tend to have no clue what's in their soil at any given point in time whereas hydro growers know exactly what's in their tank. None of us grow with heavy metals. Heavy metals aren't even a byproduct of nitrate salt production.
I would also like to know how the surgeon somehow knew the heavy metal accumulation was from weed. The story seems half made up.
My salts don't have heavy metals in them. Why would they? Earth on the other hand.... Well... right off the bat you've got your aluminum. That's no good. I don't put aluminum in my tank. "Others" includes mercury and lead. You realize that soil can even have uranium in it. Soil is a mixed bag, of chemicals. That's why I call BS on the pretentious literal fermenting shit and piss. Soil growers tend to have no clue what's in their soil at any given point in time whereas hydro growers know exactly what's in their tank. None of us grow with heavy metals. Heavy metals aren't even a byproduct of nitrate salt production.
I would also like to know how the surgeon somehow knew the heavy metal accumulation was from weed. The story seems half made up.
Last edited:
Bueno Time
Well-Known Member
I sold mine on ebay pretty quick, less than 2 days of listing so that is always an option.
bicit
Well-Known Member
I figured I'd try to give someone on here the option first since I'll let them go for less than they retail for.
I'm willing to bet there are traces in the mined elements. It maybe in minute amounts, but it's dishonest to claim otherwise. However most of these are insoluble and not taken up by the plant.
That's a pretty broad brush. Not everyone uses manure and animal products in their soil. I don't, I have a pretty good idea what's in my soil, but I make mine. I know of some individuals who even get their compost analyzed to ensure they're only breeding the right variates of aerobic microbes.
Again with the broad brushes. I hate this, pet peeve of mine no matter who's doing it. Most hobby level hydro users have ZERO idea of what's going into their tanks or even understand how it works. Unless you're mixing your own fertilizer from individual salts, but that is not true of your typical hydro user.
Could you link us to a few then? I'm having trouble finding any that I would call unbiased and objective.... poor googlefu skills on my part I'm sure. Would you be comfortable elaborating on the nature of your friends spinal injury and how it came about?
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
For those who don't know, I'll give em a hint right here.
The main ingredient in their tank..... clear gold... careful....
The main ingredient in their tank..... clear gold... careful....
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Hydro guys may "know" what they put into their tanks...but they are in the same boat as soil guys about what is being used. Unless you are sending your old res changes to a lab, then hydro is just as out there.
With that said the plant physiologist I speak with from time to time will never change his res the whole cycle(not cannabis). But...he actually knows from lab results what is still in the solution and what needs to be replaced...not just starting all over fresh with a new res for ease.
That is nothing against hydro specifically. Best weed I have ever smoked(that wasn't mine) was pure from coco with canna nutes(technically hydro/inert medium). And what ever strain that guy grows...he just knows how to do it right. Also, I and him(my favorite grower) think that he would do even better in soil. But I agree with what has already been touched...if you don't actually know(vague and self proclaimed unfortunately) what is going on then it actually can be dangerous and hazardous. Just like mixing a bunch of random or "sourced" can be if a company or person went down the wrong path.
What make organics so good and pure is the people doing it. All these guys chiming in defending soil till the end use ROLS or recycled or some kind of living/super charged soil. Not over the counter organics. The true organic growers will laugh at people using bottled organic nuts.
Then the next step after just being organic is sustainability. Organics and sustainability are very different. But can be the same. Sustainable orgaincs is like a square. If it is sustainable it's probably organic....but just organic is a rectangle...every square is a rectangle...but not every rectangle is a square. If it is sustainable it's probably organic... but if it's only organic, it's usually not sustainable.
Just my two cents...I have been reading on my phone all day and had to chime in now that I'm off .
With that said the plant physiologist I speak with from time to time will never change his res the whole cycle(not cannabis). But...he actually knows from lab results what is still in the solution and what needs to be replaced...not just starting all over fresh with a new res for ease.
That is nothing against hydro specifically. Best weed I have ever smoked(that wasn't mine) was pure from coco with canna nutes(technically hydro/inert medium). And what ever strain that guy grows...he just knows how to do it right. Also, I and him(my favorite grower) think that he would do even better in soil. But I agree with what has already been touched...if you don't actually know(vague and self proclaimed unfortunately) what is going on then it actually can be dangerous and hazardous. Just like mixing a bunch of random or "sourced" can be if a company or person went down the wrong path.
What make organics so good and pure is the people doing it. All these guys chiming in defending soil till the end use ROLS or recycled or some kind of living/super charged soil. Not over the counter organics. The true organic growers will laugh at people using bottled organic nuts.
Then the next step after just being organic is sustainability. Organics and sustainability are very different. But can be the same. Sustainable orgaincs is like a square. If it is sustainable it's probably organic....but just organic is a rectangle...every square is a rectangle...but not every rectangle is a square. If it is sustainable it's probably organic... but if it's only organic, it's usually not sustainable.
Just my two cents...I have been reading on my phone all day and had to chime in now that I'm off .
hyroot
Well-Known Member
here is one after a quick google search.
http://hindawi.com/journals/jt/2013/378168/
then click on full text html on the upper right side. It wont link to that page for some reason.
injury is probably the wrong term. Its spinal meningitis.
Last edited:
Observe & Report
Well-Known Member
If I gave you a sack of nugs could you tell me if they were organic+soil or mineral+hydro grown?
hyroot
Well-Known Member
most bottled nute or hydro grown is very harsh due to all the salts and chems in the flowers. Look great and have very little smell. Most hydro growers don't know a thing about brix levels and how important they are to terpenes. Hydro growers don't add sugars to their resi so....... Clean natural organic grown has no salts and is very smooth and doesn't make you cough much and is extremely pungent. Its really not hard to tell if its pure organic or bottled nutes.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
http://anale-chimie.univ-ovidius.ro/anale-chimie/chemistry/2009-2/full/16_lupascu.pdf
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjABOAo&url=http://orgprints.org/14829/1/Baker_14829_ed.rtf&ei=F-WkU7utFNGB7Qb40YGQAg&usg=AFQjCNE7hb2OCydZXxOmgzV0DX4s-315Ow&bvm=bv.69411363,d.ZGU
http://www.agnet.org/library.php?func=view&id=20110804092758&type_id=1
http://www.seriouseats.com/2008/09/heavy-metals-found-in-organic-agriculture-slate.html
http://agr.wa.gov/pestfert/fertilizers/productdatabase.aspx
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/docs/rptFertHMWebCurrent.pdf
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/green_room/2008/09/rusted_roots.html
http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/contaminants-in-cannabis-.html
There's nothing more 'pure' than food-grade mineral fertilisers.
Whether some of you like it or not ,that's the truth given by science itself.
Chemistry.
Food grade "Salt peter's" is 99,99% KNO3 ...
(The Yara Krista K Plus,my favourite choice of Potassium Nitrate is ~100% pure KNO3 .
http://www.yara.co.uk/crop-nutrition/products/other/0168-krista-k-plus/ .
Check it's Material Safety Data Sheet ..)
Chicken manure,bat guano,kelp,fish emulsion, are organic fertilisers ,
which can differ in their purity like day versus night ....
Food grade minerals (' Chems 'as you like to call them ...) is the purest and cleanest form of
plant nutrition.
Is it ' complete ' plant nutrition ?
Well ,that's another issue ...
But for sure is the purest ...
And that's not my 'personal ' opinion ...
Actually is what " food grade mineral fertiliser' means as certification...
Search it further ...
You'll find out-also- that the 'organic fertiliser ' thing is the biggest scum of all times ...
(Money-money-more money...)
Organic fertilisation is a whole system that includes soil,microrganisms,other plants,worms,fungi ,etc,etc...
Not just powderised bat guano or kelp meal ....
P.S. Roots assimilate every mineral in a certain form .
They do not care less ,if it comes from organic or mineral source ...
And usually the organic fertilisers ,are the ones ,exceptionally rich in heavy metals ...
Not the mineral ones which undergo heavy analysis ,testing and certification ,
before they are 'thrown ' to the market ....
You might want to check all this further ...
Personally I never trusted organics and never will .
Powders,granules or liquids of unknown ingredients,origin and manufacture processes ...
No-no-no...
Never.
Cheers.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjABOAo&url=http://orgprints.org/14829/1/Baker_14829_ed.rtf&ei=F-WkU7utFNGB7Qb40YGQAg&usg=AFQjCNE7hb2OCydZXxOmgzV0DX4s-315Ow&bvm=bv.69411363,d.ZGU
http://www.agnet.org/library.php?func=view&id=20110804092758&type_id=1
http://www.seriouseats.com/2008/09/heavy-metals-found-in-organic-agriculture-slate.html
http://agr.wa.gov/pestfert/fertilizers/productdatabase.aspx
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/docs/rptFertHMWebCurrent.pdf
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/green_room/2008/09/rusted_roots.html
http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/contaminants-in-cannabis-.html
There's nothing more 'pure' than food-grade mineral fertilisers.
Whether some of you like it or not ,that's the truth given by science itself.
Chemistry.
Food grade "Salt peter's" is 99,99% KNO3 ...
(The Yara Krista K Plus,my favourite choice of Potassium Nitrate is ~100% pure KNO3 .
http://www.yara.co.uk/crop-nutrition/products/other/0168-krista-k-plus/ .
Check it's Material Safety Data Sheet ..)
Chicken manure,bat guano,kelp,fish emulsion, are organic fertilisers ,
which can differ in their purity like day versus night ....
Food grade minerals (' Chems 'as you like to call them ...) is the purest and cleanest form of
plant nutrition.
Is it ' complete ' plant nutrition ?
Well ,that's another issue ...
But for sure is the purest ...
And that's not my 'personal ' opinion ...
Actually is what " food grade mineral fertiliser' means as certification...
Search it further ...
You'll find out-also- that the 'organic fertiliser ' thing is the biggest scum of all times ...
(Money-money-more money...)
Organic fertilisation is a whole system that includes soil,microrganisms,other plants,worms,fungi ,etc,etc...
Not just powderised bat guano or kelp meal ....
P.S. Roots assimilate every mineral in a certain form .
They do not care less ,if it comes from organic or mineral source ...
And usually the organic fertilisers ,are the ones ,exceptionally rich in heavy metals ...
Not the mineral ones which undergo heavy analysis ,testing and certification ,
before they are 'thrown ' to the market ....
You might want to check all this further ...
Personally I never trusted organics and never will .
Powders,granules or liquids of unknown ingredients,origin and manufacture processes ...
No-no-no...
Never.
Cheers.
Last edited:
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
I use their calcium nitrate + ammonium nitrate double salt.
5Ca(NO3)2 . 1NH4NO3
http://www.yara.co.uk/crop-nutrition/products/yaraliva/0190-yaraliva-calcinit/
5Ca(NO3)2 . 1NH4NO3
http://www.yara.co.uk/crop-nutrition/products/yaraliva/0190-yaraliva-calcinit/
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
And there's the heavy metal concentrations of the Yara Calcinit ..
( I use it also ..LOL ! )
By W.S.D.A.
Further sample analysis ....
And compare it with the analysis of a sample of organic kelp ...
Check please Arsenic,Cobalt,Nickel,Lead and Zinc ....
Visit WSDA site and check / compare organics vs food grade mineral fertilisers ...
Case closed,then.
Cheers.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
It's actually worse than it seems for kelp in those tables. You would need to use WAY more of the kelp to grow the same amount of plant matter vs the calcium nitrate and potassium nitrate, thus making you have to add many times that amount of lead, arsenic, cobalt, and nickel in the kelp product.
A tiny bit of KNO3 and Ca(NO3)2 go a long way.
A tiny bit of KNO3 and Ca(NO3)2 go a long way.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Yes...
That's why with mineral fertilisers one has to be rather 'conservative' in doses ,so not
to have 'pollutant wastes' down the drain, that will cause uncontrollable vegetation ( phytoplankton and other photosynthesizing microrganisms included ) near aquatic environments ,thus leaving
water without oxygen .(Oxygen gets deprived from plants ,thus fish and other organisms die ..)
Careful measuring & dosing.
Fertiliser should stay in the pot ,and assimilated by the plants grown ...
Not by Arundo Donax (do not know the english word for the plant ..) ,near water environments ...