DIY panel design. Compatibility/reality check? Resident experts please help!

So here's what I'm thinking. Five vero 29's mounted to a 4.6"x18" heat sink with four, 120mm fans for active cooling. Drive two of the emitters at 1.6 amps and three at 1.0 amp. Should draw about the same amount of power as an A51 XGS-190. Maybe similar or better performance?

Next question, should I use five 3500k emitters or two 4000k plus three 2700k emitters?

BTW Stumbled on this if anyone needs some PC fans. Four, 120mm fans for $13
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O8I474/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1L7BVAV6QT8DV&coliid=I3DIZDW78ANN5S

Doer said:

Why would you grow with LED? Because you don't have the space or want less heat. But, no So, LEDs are efficient, but to me, not as effective for the money.

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The only reason a lot us went LED is because of the heat and noise involved in running HID lights. If I had a cool environment again, I'd be running 2kW of HPS on a digital ballast without hesitation.

That said, this is the LED forum, so we don't need to hear from HID aficionados about how their lights are superior for yield. Most of us here are well aware of the trade-offs already.

Regardless, this tiresome debate will end in the next couple years since LED is leapfrogging HID as I write this. Only a short while before the newer tech hits the public--ie. CXA3950s...

Doer said:

I don't feel the need to indulge in sarcasm. Count on it.

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OK thank you for clarifying. Normally I use bare 600W HPS X 4 and I agree it is the bomb, huge easy to trim nugs. Gradually replacing them with LED and increasing my yield while using half the power. Here are the points I would make.

-I am not suggesting that we should use 46W LED in 1 square meter. I aim for about 300W and it delivers more photons and more yield than my 600HPS.
-Photosynthetic efficiency decreases as we approach maximum saturation. Your indoor growing goal should not be to match the intensity of the sun unless you are desperately limited for space and do not care about efficiency.
-HPS spectrum is not optimal for the best nuggets (LED buds are stinkier, stickier, more potent)
-HPS is 36% efficient at creating photons when the bulbs are brand new. I run my COBs at 42% and they do not fade with time.
-HPS suffers 25% reflector losses and 10% losses from the glass in the hood
-HPS is cheaper up front cost but LED pays for itself in electric not to mention air conditioning and ventilation costs

So LED can deliver superior results and it can be scaled down so that even micro growers can get better buds than 1000W HPS. Sorry for the thread jack!!

bicit do you have a link to the heatsink?

Here is mr fluxes vero color tint specific data. If I recall, he explained that high CRI, very warm and very cool suffered in terms of efficiency but 3000K seems to get off without much penalty.


Vero 3000K
Power in : 9.34 W (26.70V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 1120 lumen
Efficacy : 120 lumen/W
LER : 320 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 37.4%
Radiant flux : 3.50 W
Photon flux : 17.28 umol/s (1.85 per Watt)
Blue : 8% power, 6% flux
Red : 27% power, 30% flux


Vero 4000K
Power in : 9.34 W (26.70V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 1180 lumen
Efficacy : 126 lumen/W
LER : 325 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 38.8%
Radiant flux : 3.63 W
Photon flux : 17.47 umol/s (1.87 per Watt)
Blue : 13% power, 10% flux
Red : 23% power, 25% flux


Vero 5000K
Power in : 9.34 W (26.70V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 1305 lumen
Efficacy : 140 lumen/W
LER : 337 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 41.5%
Radiant flux : 3.88 W
Photon flux : 17.88 umol/s (1.91 per Watt)
Blue : 22% power, 18% flux
Red : 15% power, 17% flux

SupraSPL said:

bicit do you have a link to the heatsink?

Here is mr fluxes vero color tint specific data. If I recall, he explained that high CRI, very warm and very cool suffered in terms of efficiency but 3000K seems to get off without much penalty.

<snip>

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Indeed I do link. $62 for the heat sink after shipping and $13 to get four, 120mm fans.

I'll have to do some more research on spectrum choice. The 3500k 80CRI model seems to be slightly more efficient than the 3000k 80CRI model. However I'm not really sure if it's the right spectrum for proper development.

That is a very good question, spectrum is still being explored. The way I see it 3000K is a bit too far on the cool side because it is just short of the deep red range which I have had very good results with in the R/W/B modules.

I am testing flowering with 3000K Cree and I have high expectations but will have to wait and see. 3000K Cree is not the same as 3000K Vero it turns out, the Vero has less overall blue. Not sure how that would affect things but it is easy to add more blue if necessary. Ultimately I plan on staggering the COB modules with RWB modules so they can round each other out.

HPS definitely compliments the RWB modules well. This is a buddha tahoe OG grown under 600 HPS and finished under the RWB LEDs with 18% blue.

Great info guys , thank you, im getting ready to build my first diy led so stay posted for a million stupid questions.

Gaius said:

The only reason a lot us went LED is because of the heat and noise involved in running HID lights. If I had a cool environment again, I'd be running 2kW of HPS on a digital ballast without hesitation.

That said, this is the LED forum, so we don't need to hear from HID aficionados about how their lights are superior for yield. Most of us here are well aware of the trade-offs already.

Regardless, this tiresome debate will end in the next couple years since LED is leapfrogging HID as I write this. Only a short while before the newer tech hits the public--ie. CXA3950s...

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Your problem is you think we are having a debate. We cannot debate the facts. Now these guys were laughing at candle power. I am not an aficionado of HID. That is sophistry. I am a grower and I am agnostic to Radiance emitters.

You seem to be involved in some kind of game. If you want cheap, quiet and cool, you go with CFL.

If you want to play and not grow effectively with no Sun Power, CFL is boring. And then you come with straw dogs, like we are discussing cigars and pussy and having a debate.

And I do not give two shits about your opinion of me or what or where you think I should post.

So, cry on, it doesn't touch me..

You guys want act like this works, but not say "only works barely," at this point. And since I am not in your club, I am free to say what I want.

And besides all that, I check in for two reasons and you cannot stop me....that can be a 3rd reason.

1) following all emitter tech to adopt for REASON, I agree LED can bring big footcandles. I have a shop light that is BRIGHT. A panel of these new type. Just not the right color intensity yet.

2) to warn off noobs, from the confusion and to tell about foot-candles

When you are buying a tactical flashlight, what are you doing? Are you cooing about the light that leaves or are you only interested in the power of the illumination striking the target?

Think of those NightSuns on the Police Helicopters. Millions of candles. It really is the difference of Luminance vs Radiance.

LEDs are only barking at Radiance, lumens / watt. Cannabis leaves only care about how much Luminance, foot-candles. they receive. Photon Density.

So, play the game of early adopter, nothing wrong with it. I love building the systems. But, is gearhead, not grower, to me.

I wanted to say that to any noobs around. Fine hobby, LED.

Obvious troll is obvious. Y'all have fun with this cat. I'm out.

Doer said:

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So, play the game of early adopter, nothing wrong with it. I love building the systems. But, is gearhead, not grower, to me.

I wanted to say that to any noobs around. Fine hobby, LED.

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Play around I shall, I enjoy being on the bleeding edge of some things. Thank you for your impute, I'm well acquainted with the trade offs of HID vs CFL vs LED. Having used all of them at some point or another. I'm a noob with electronics, not horticulture. I'm not here to debate, discuss or even explore HID or Fluorescent lighting outside of supplemental lighting. I'm interested in building an LED panel, thanks.

Supra: Since I'm going with individual power supplies anyhow it would not be difficult to add in a few low power emitters to the panel. Do you have any recommendations? Maybe a r/w/b panel instead of all white. What do you think?

I agree adding a few colors will improve the efficiency of the spectrum and possibly improve the quality of the buds. If you go with the Vero you could add Luxeon ES royal blue and Luxeon ES deep red. The trouble is the Luxeon ES deep red maxes out at 700mA and the blue at 1A. I assume you are planning on running the COBs harder than that. The Cree XPE2 630nm red maxes out at 1A. It is too bad Cree did not release an XPE2 deep red.

Doer, the very best fluoros in the world will create much more heat than the very best LEDs. When comparing similar spectra, fluoro gets 93 lumens/wattt vs LED 160 lumens/watt. Flouros fade and neither are they cheap. They require electronic ballasts and fancy reflectors. 4' Fluoros cannot create more photons and cannot direct more into the canopy. How can you reconcile that? If there is some new technology we are not aware of please enlighten us

SupraSPL said:

I agree adding a few colors will improve the efficiency of the spectrum and possibly improve the quality of the buds. If you go with the Vero you could add Luxeon ES royal blue and Luxeon ES deep red. The trouble is the Luxeon ES deep red maxes out at 700mA and the blue at 1A. I assume you are planning on running the COBs harder than that. The Cree XPE2 630nm red maxes out at 1A. It is too bad Cree did not release an XPE2 deep red.

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Well the drivers you linked aren't very expensive, it wouldn't cost that much to add 2 more to the design. Could I drive the Cree XPE2 and the luxeon ES blue off one driver and have the Deep red on it's own string?

Off to do some more reading, however do you have any suggestions on what ratio of monochrome led's would work well with my setup?

This is very exciting. Thank you for all the help so far!

Sure you could add another string. In the past I have had up to 3 strings on each heatsink.


I think 650mA is an excellent value point for the XPE XPE2 and Luxeon ES deep red and deep blue so maybe just a string for all of those?

As far as ratio that is a tricky one and it would depend on which COB and tint you settle on. First thing to key on is blue. I aim for 15-20% blue, half of the red is 630nm and half 660nm, and the rest is white. I take into consideration that the whites provide some blue and some 630nm. I use a spreadsheet to get more precise numbers.


But when it comes down to it, it doesn't have to be so complicated. I have had great results with a variety of spectra.

SupraSPL said:

I think 650mA is an excellent value point for the XPE XPE2 and Luxeon ES deep red and deep blue so maybe just a string for all of those?

As far as ratio that is a tricky one and it would depend on which COB and tint you settle on. First thing to key on is blue. I aim for 15-20% blue, half of the red is 630nm and half 660nm, and the rest is white. I take into consideration that the whites provide some blue and some 630nm. I use a spreadsheet to get more precise numbers.
View attachment 2995466

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Putting them all on one string would greatly simplify things and 650MA drivers are pretty cheap. Do you have a guide or know of one on how to create a spreadsheet like that? I know my way around excell well enough, but I'm no where near as educated as you seem to be on LED tech.

I'll give my best shot replicating it regardless. I was considering three, 2700k and two 4000k emitters. However now that I'm considering adding some monochrome leds I need to do some more research first.

ETA: Do you think my heat sink and fan combo can handle 300 watts worth of LED's?