DiY - Samsung's strips

Powertech · Jun 9, 2020

Have2 said:
Is it me or...

I just find on a webpage:
"Plants and especially cannabis need most lighting during the flowering stage, so we`ll be using that as an estimate of how much area needs to be covered. A standard LED grow light must use more than 32 watts per square foot of grow space, but for optimum results it should be over 50 watts, up to 80 watts. "

According to this claim, I should put from 1475 to 2380 watts of led over a 29.5 sq ft area... Hum What? Using 16 strips and 2x 480 watts driver, I'll be at just over 32,5 w / sq ft... Is that enough? They don't even talk about PPFD/ umol and so on... Tempting to trigger "BS article" but well...

@Rocket Soul , do you think I'll be able to achieve the same result or better than my hps de 1k? On another article, they mention that LED is 38% more efficient than HPS

I have 2 5x5 flower tents, in one I have 1240Watts of LED, and in the other I have 1060Watts. I do not have CO2 as I am not in a sealed room, I wish I could use CO2 but then I would get more light, so you don't have to go off that 30Watts everybody says, but you do have to be exta careful not to burn your girls

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

CaliWorthington said:
H-Influx strips are in stock now too. They have higher efficiency and better diodes (LM-301B) than F-strips. F-strips are great, but I'm gonna try the H's unless someone talks me out of it. (15) 2' strips running at 1.1 amps each, 800 total watts (HLG-320H and HLG-480H) should put out 861 PPFD over the primary 3'x9' area of (3) 3'x'3 drip trays, 645 at the edges (4'x'9' calculation). I could run them at 960 watts for 1020 and 785 PPFD, but I don't think that will be necessary.

And no, I didn't use my faulty "Infinite PPFD Equation" for these calculations.

I'm planning to go all 3000K as it's been working well for me, but I'm open to suggestions on color spectrum.

Can you validate my calculations?

16 fstrip using 2 hlg-480h-48 on 29.5sqft. (68x60)
17340 for each strip at full watt but since I'll be running them 8/480 .. 60 watts so 60/103 x 17340 = 10100 lumen x 16 = 161 615
161 615 lm / 69 = 2342 PPF
2342 / 960 = 2.44 umol/J
2342/ 2,69 m2 = 870 PPFD

Thanks

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

Powertech said:
I have 2 5x5 flower tents, in one I have 1240Watts of LED, and in the other I have 1060Watts. I do not have CO2 as I am not in a sealed room, I wish I could use CO2 but then I would get more light, so you don't have to go off that 30Watts everybody says, but you do have to be exta careful not to burn your girls

I do have co2 in a sealed room.

CaliWorthington · Jun 9, 2020

Have2 said:
Can you validate my calculations?

16 fstrip using 2 hlg-480h-48 on 29.5sqft. (68x60)
17340 for each strip at full watt but since I'll be running them 8/480 .. 60 watts so 60/103 x 17340 = 10100 lumen x 16 = 161 615
161 615 lm / 69 = 2342 PPF
2342 / 960 = 2.44 umol/J
2342/ 2,69 m2 = 870 PPFD

Thanks

I could be wrong here, but I think you're multiplying the lumens by the number of strips, instead of the watts. This leads to an "Infinite PPFD Equation" which people here kindly pointed out to me was incorrect. I have to figure out one more step, which I think is a simple division, to answer your question correctly, or at least to do the calculations the way I've learned is correct. I'll post back in a bit.

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

CaliWorthington said:
I could be wrong here, but I think you're multiplying the lumens by the number of strips, instead of the watts. This leads to an "Infinite PPFD Equation" which people here kindly pointed out to me was incorrect. I have to figure out one more step, which I think is a simple division, to answer your question correctly, or at least to do the calculations the way I've learned is correct. I'll post back in a bit.

Model is SI-B8VZ91B20WW
And I love infinite ppfd

)

CaliWorthington · Jun 9, 2020

Have2 said:
Model is SI-B8VZ91B20WW
And I love infinite ppfd )

Yes, I deduced that it was a 4' strip from the 17340 luminous flux number on the data sheet. There are people here who are way better at this, but I think I can help, so follow along. There may be some wrong stuff here, and I use two different online calculators.

First of all, I've been starting with the luminous efficacy number on the data sheet, not the total luminous flux. This may be wrong. Either way, both luminous flux and luminous efficacy drop when the current and voltage drop. The luminous efficacy drops from 17340 to 15605 when you lower the power to 97.9 watts from 103 watts. So I don't think you can calculate on that 168/17340 number unless you're running the strips at 2240mA.

Assuming it scales evenly, which they seem to do, the luminous efficacy when run at 60w instead of 103w drops from 168 to 97.86. Let's just call that 98. Multiply 98 x 960 watts= 94,080 lumens. Plug that into this calculator Waveform Lighting-Convert Lumens to PPF Online Calculator at 94,000 lumens and you get 1788 umol/s PPF.

Now plug that 1788 PPF into this calculator HLG PPF to PPFD Calculator with dimensions of 5 x 5.66 and 80% of light reaching target, you get a PPFD of 544 umol/m2/s.

Someone else can probably do that better in two sentences with no online calculator(s), or I may be way off on the scaling of that luminous efficacy number, but that's what I think is going on. That's running those strips really soft. 6 strips on a 480 is more typical I think.

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

Wow! So even at 960 watts, it will achieve a lower result than a 1000w de?

If yes, leds sucks :/

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

CaliWorthington said:
Yes, I deduced that it was a 4' strip from the 17340 luminous flux number on the data sheet. There are people here who are way better at this, but I think I can help, so follow along. There may be some wrong stuff here, and I use two different online calculators.

First of all, I've been starting with the luminous efficacy number on the data sheet, not the total luminous flux. This may be wrong. Either way, both luminous flux and luminous efficacy drop when the current and voltage drop. The luminous efficacy drops from 17340 to 15605 when you lower the power to 97.9 watts from 103 watts. So I don't think you can calculate on that 168/17340 number unless you're running the strips at 2240mA.

Assuming it scales evenly, which they seem to do, the luminous efficacy when run at 60w instead of 103w drops from 168 to 97.86. Let's just call that 98. Multiply 98 x 960 watts= 94,080 lumens. Plug that into this calculator Waveform Lighting-Convert Lumens to PPF Online Calculator at 94,000 lumens and you get 1788 umol/s PPF.

Now plug that 1788 PPF into this calculator HLG PPF to PPFD Calculator with dimensions of 5 x 5.66 and 80% of light reaching target, you get a PPFD of 544 umol/m2/s.

Someone else can probably do that better in two sentences with no online calculator(s), or I may be way off on the scaling of that luminous efficacy number, but that's what I think is going on. That's running those strips really soft. 6 strips on a 480 is more typical I think.

As for the efficiency, it gains when running them softer, so we can assume the ratio watts/lm is ok.

CaliWorthington · Jun 9, 2020

Have2 said:
As for the efficiency, it gains when running them softer, so we can assume the ratio watts/lm is ok.

I've heard that too, but then why does the data sheet say otherwise? Perhaps I should start with the luminous flux number instead.

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

CaliWorthington said:
I've heard that too, but then why does the data sheet say otherwise? Perhaps I should start with the luminous flux number instead.

60 watts so 60/103 = 0.582 x 17340 = 10100 lm

I'm confused I think

eLod · Jun 9, 2020

@Have2 look at the samsung engine calculator at https://www.samsung.com/led/support/tools/engine-calculator/

as you can see current, temperature and a whole lot of different things do matter. with lower current (and also lower temperature) you get more efficacy. the engine calculator is good to check around with full "fixtures" and it will do the counting for you. samsung also has a single component calculator. (pls bear in mind i am a noob as well so verify everything i say)

edit: just to be clear, this is only what you can get the same by doing the math yourself (and possibly digitizing the different graphs/curves). you still have to do the last steps yourself ("convert" the lumens to ppf according to cct, then "account" for the surface area to get ppfd, neither of which are exact calculations)

CaliWorthington · Jun 9, 2020

Have2 said:
60 watts so 60/103 = 0.582 x 17340 = 10100 lm

I'm confused I think

I'll check out that Samsung calculator right now. Otherwise, let's just assume the minimum luminous efficacy number on the data sheet, which is 151. 151 x 960 watts= 144,960 lumens. If I plug that into those other calculators I get a PPFD of 839, which is excellent.

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

CaliWorthington said:
I'll check out that Samsung calculator right now. Otherwise, let's just assume the minimum luminous efficacy number on the data sheet, which is 151. 151 x 960 watts= 144,960 lumens. If I plug that into those other calculators I get a PPFD of 839, which is excellent.

That's what I am after
I'll play around with the Samsung's.

Also, I've been told hlg gives more power by few %.. like the 480 would give ~550 watts... If yes, i don't know if it increases the ppfd or it's simply wattage out if the wall. But if it gives few % more... Would be nice!

CaliWorthington · Jun 9, 2020

Have2 said:
That's what I am after
I'll play around with the Samsung's.

Also, I've been told hlg gives more power by few %.. like the 480 would give ~550 watts... If yes, i don't know if it increases the ppfd or it's simply wattage out if the wall. But if it gives few % more... Would be nice!

If you want to increase the power by 10% get the A versions of the drivers (HLG-480H-48A). They have two adjustable pots onboard, one for current and one for voltage.

eLod · Jun 9, 2020

@Have2 some hlgs can give a bit more W than it is "named" for, that said your actual usage will depend on voltage (and temperature and etc.). you can check meanwell's datasheets to see what a particular series can do (at given voltage). so first you should know what you are building (how many strips on what voltage & current) to select a driver for it. there are some docs that you can look up which of the drivers are the more efficient, but at some point the information is overwhelming and you are micro-optimising. with the drivers i would shoot for AB best of both worlds, but it depends on availability and etc.

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

eLod said:
@Have2 look at the samsung engine calculator at https://www.samsung.com/led/support/tools/engine-calculator/

View attachment 4590604
as you can see current, temperature and a whole lot of different things do matter. with lower current (and also lower temperature) you get more efficacy. the engine calculator is good to check around with full "fixtures" and it will do the counting for you. samsung also has a single component calculator. (pls bear in mind i am a noob as well so verify everything i say)

edit: just to be clear, this is only what you can get the same by doing the math yourself (and possibly digitizing the different graphs/curves). you still have to do the last steps yourself ("convert" the lumens to ppf according to cct, then "account" for the surface area to get ppfd, neither of which are exact calculations)

The raise in efficiency in damn nice! From 168 to ~182!

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

CaliWorthington said:
If you want to increase the power by 10% get the A versions of the drivers (HLG-480H-48A). They have two adjustable pots onboard, one for current and one for voltage.

I will receive a A and a B.. so much out of stock
So one HLG-480H-48A and one HLG-480H-48B

eLod · Jun 9, 2020

@Have2 i'm not sure if it makes sense to mix them. watch ledgardener's series on the drivers it can help you better understand them

edit: so just to be clear there is HLG-480H-48AB, look at https://www.meanwell.com/Upload/PDF/HLG-480H/HLG-480H-SPEC.PDF there is blank, A, B, AB, Dx, D2.

CaliWorthington · Jun 9, 2020

Have2 said:
I will receive a A and a B.. so much out of stock
So one HLG-480H-48A and one HLG-480H-48B

I have all B's, they work. I measured a 120 and (2) 240's at over 640 watts with no adjustments, running the $5 Samsung strips, so even the B's will put out more wattage.

Have2 · Jun 9, 2020

eLod said:
@Have2 i'm not sure if it makes sense to mix them. watch ledgardener's series on the drivers it can help you better understand them

edit: so just to be clear there is HLG-480H-48AB, look at https://www.meanwell.com/Upload/PDF/HLG-480H/HLG-480H-SPEC.PDF there is blank, A, B, AB, Dx, D2.

I wanted the same but.. OOS on few places... So... But I won't mix.. I'll connect 8 on one and the other 8 on the other one.. I could even do
Strip 1 on driver 1, strip 2 on driver 2, strip 3 on driver 1 and so on... It will level out... I will probably order another B and few others leds to shine on my mother...
I'll watch the video in few minutes

Thanks!

DiY - Samsung's strips

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