Do I need a new extraction method?

Disclaimer: Newbies should NOT do anything I do. I have been extracting for decades and know the risks.

My head is spinning with options for upgrading my small scale medicinal extraction methods. I'd love to try making a small co2 extractor. But, the complexity and cost seem prohibitive. Rosin presses were interesting until I found out they only squeeze out about half of the good stuff. I've been searching and researching for weeks and it's tough nowadays with google being censored and nobody else's search algos being any better. Maybe if I describe my current method, you guys can suggest something helpful?

First, I should say that I'm mainly looking for a simple way to extract trim for vaping and eating and sometimes AVB for CBD oil. I'm not concerned with all that terpene nonsense and have enough experience with my medicine to know that it's the THC and CBD that matter most to me and the wife.

Current method:
1. Freeze material and isopropyl alcohol overnight or longer
2. Perform 1-3 (usually only one for trim) 20 min "pulls" with the iso, leaving it in the freezer each time, filtering through cheesecloth
3. Leave filtered iso in freezer for 2-4 hours to settle, then decant
4. Gravity filter the last half cup through a coffee filter
5. Place clean-ish iso/extract into an air still and distill iso down to 100-200ml
6. Purge remaining iso in oven at 250F (probably dangerous but it's been fine for years - switch to purging outdoors on a hotplate?)
7. Draw in to vials while warm

I understand that I'm decarbing the oil when I purge it. Sometimes it even decarbs in the air still if I don't catch it in time. Gasp. I know you kids love your fancy terpenes and whatnot. But, honestly the decarbed oil vapes just fine. I don't understand why anyone would think it's not as strong or whatever without terpenes. It tastes great, is smooth, and gets us high AF. So, anyway. Yeah. I'm intrigued by the idea of using a vacuum distiller to get pretty amber oil. But, it's apparently not necessary.

Okay, thanks for reading all that if you did. I'm thinking I can upgrade things a bit by adding a vacuum filtration kit using an aspirator and water pump. But that seems like a huge hassle for just a little more cleanliness. I'm not sure it's worth it. Another idea is to maybe switch to a soxlet extraction and then try to winterize and filter the nasty oil that would produce. But, that also seems like more trouble that it's worth and more bulky equipment that I don't have the space for atm.

Then there's BHO, which just makes me sad that it is so popular. Seems more sane to use co2 for sfc. But, I guess you can't just run it through a tube either, making BHO easier. I just couldn't find a clean source of butane last time I looked. Imagine the cheap stuff most dispensaries probably use because, business.

So, it's a huge question, sorry. Like, what's the most reasonable extraction method for the small medicinal grower? The best balance between complete extraction and cost/time/effort? So far, the best I've found is alcohol, iso or ethanol. It's just dangerous, so I'm interested in minimizing that. And, if I could somehow move on to something else that would extract as completely, yet be less dangerous (and not as expensive or ugly as building a freakin' lab in my house)... that would be my holy grail.

Man, I hope you guys have some good ideas. The Interwebs ain't what they used to be.

Here is a DIY CO2 SCFE link: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/15-diy-equipment/15-24-diy-scfe-co2

If you don't care about terpenes or decarboxylation, consider using a heat gun and tube like a giant Volcano, and then condensing the vapors in a cold trap.

Fadedawg said:

Here is a DIY CO2 SCFE link: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/15-diy-equipment/15-24-diy-scfe-co2

If you don't care about terpenes or decarboxylation, consider using a heat gun and tube like a giant Volcano, and then condensing the vapors in a cold trap.

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Thanks, I had already seen that. It's about the only discussion of it out there and the guy seems to have given up in the end and bought a commercial unit for 4K. That's why I said it seems too complicated for the home user. Plus, the time involved in actually doing each extraction that way was like 4hrs straight you have to monitor the thing.

Heat gun and a tube? Giant volcano? If that worked everything I cleaned out of my vaporizer would be quality oil and everybody knows that's not true. So, huh?
Thanks for the input though.

I like your process @Ta-dah . You ever consider using acetone instead of iso?

MustGro said:

I like your process @Ta-dah . You ever consider using acetone instead of iso?

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Acetone is an aggressive solvent, and the hardware-store grades have significant nasties that require a distillation prior to use. I have always used saturated hydrocarbons for this work. The downside is that when I’m extracting flower or trim, significant wax coextracts. I use a methanol dewax step after distilling my primary extract. Some wax codistills, as I found out to my chagrin.

Last I checked, Amazon sells hexanes.

I had it in my head that bho, followed by ethanol extracting the bho was the best way to get most of your stuff. Then they made shatter with the extracted oil.

I haven't ever blasted or distilled anything though, iso hash was the easiest and cheapest for my noob self.

Ta-dah said:

Thanks, I had already seen that. It's about the only discussion of it out there and the guy seems to have given up in the end and bought a commercial unit for 4K. That's why I said it seems too complicated for the home user. Plus, the time involved in actually doing each extraction that way was like 4hrs straight you have to monitor the thing.

Heat gun and a tube? Giant volcano? If that worked everything I cleaned out of my vaporizer would be quality oil and everybody knows that's not true. So, huh?
Thanks for the input though.

Click to expand...

That guy was me and I decided a pumping system was required to optimize selection, as using heat to obtain the pressure, extracts on the full curve. Getting quality oil using SCFE in a multi step process and requires good control of the variables.

Decarboxylated oil with out terpenes can still be quality oil with medical properties, it just is what it is.

I love fast cold alcohol extractions. I don't use any heat during my evaporation stage which nearly eliminates any danger to the process. I also love the terpenes which get retained by not using heat, I feel it gives it more depth from the flavors and smells, like aromatherapy.

Thanks everyone. I was a little worried that I might be where I am... somewhere between the high end of small time homemade stuff and the low end of the professional level. Most home users won't know any more than I do. And, the pros all have limitless money and space to work with.

Simply evaporating or distilling under vacuum would result in beautiful golden oil with all the flavors and aromas. Evaporating is wasteful and slow and seem too amateurish to sit well with me for a day to day process. Maybe okay for once in awhile or tiny batches. (I need to run about 1-3 quarts at a time.) And, I was trying to avoid building a chemistry lab in my home. Maybe I've peaked at what I'm trying to do for now. Bummer. I wanted to upgrade. Oh well, thanks again everyone.

MustGro said:

I like your process @Ta-dah . You ever consider using acetone instead of iso?

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I've used xylene for other extractions. Never acetone except for making enhanced leaf. But, I regret it now. Like someone else mentioned, the same problems exists for all the hydrocarbons including butane. It's almost impossible to get clean stuff unless you can buy from a lab supply and that ain't cheap.

Ta-dah said:

Thanks everyone. I was a little worried that I might be where I am... somewhere between the high end of small time homemade stuff and the low end of the professional level. Most home users won't know any more than I do. And, the pros all have limitless money and space to work with.

Simply evaporating or distilling under vacuum would result in beautiful golden oil with all the flavors and aromas. Evaporating is wasteful and slow and seem too amateurish to sit well with me for a day to day process. Maybe okay for once in awhile or tiny batches. (I need to run about 1-3 quarts at a time.) And, I was trying to avoid building a chemistry lab in my home. Maybe I've peaked at what I'm trying to do for now. Bummer. I wanted to upgrade. Oh well, thanks again everyone.

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Its definitely "wasteful" to just evap the alcohol and not reclaim it however, 90%+ ISO is cheap enough I never felt bad about it. I typically had 1-4 quarts of alcohol working at a time when I was regularly extracting, they would only take 18-24 hours to FULLY evap down to a dry crystal at room temp.

Thundercat said:

Its definitely "wasteful" to just evap the alcohol and not reclaim it however, 90%+ ISO is cheap enough I never felt bad about it. I typically had 1-4 quarts of alcohol working at a time when I was regularly extracting, they would only take 18-24 hours to FULLY evap down to a dry crystal at room temp.

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You're doing it right too. No disrespect intended. And, thanks for reminding me that anytime I want terps or pretty oil I can just evap. I guess I just don't like reordering stuff or having to go get it again when I can reuse. Though I do need to do the math and see if it's cheaper than the electricity it takes to reclaim it. Some seem to think that the electricity cost is higher. But, honestly my main beef is running out and the hassle of getting more. Maybe I'm weird.

Ta-dah said:

I've used xylene for other extractions. Never acetone except for making enhanced leaf. But, I regret it now. Like someone else mentioned, the same problems exists for all the hydrocarbons including butane. It's almost impossible to get clean stuff unless you can buy from a lab supply and that ain't cheap.

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Well @Ta-dah I think you and @cannabineer are way more advanced than I am. Mostly I make RSO to eat; some of my friends smoke it. I did some looking into the toxicology of isopropyl versus acetone and I liked the acetone better. Supposed to be a better solvent too. I just soak my trim, press the fluid out, filter it and lightly boil the acetone off outside.
I buy 5 gallon jugs for $100 from a boat supply store. I forget the name of the chemical supply company but they're a real chemical supply company out of Quebec. The label "says" it's acetone anyway...

MustGro said:

Well @Ta-dah I think you and @cannabineer are way more advanced than I am. Mostly I make RSO to eat; some of my friends smoke it. I did some looking into the toxicology of isopropyl versus acetone and I liked the acetone better. Supposed to be a better solvent too. I just soak my trim, press the fluid out, filter it and lightly boil the acetone off outside.
I buy 5 gallon jugs for $100 from a boat supply store. I forget the name of the chemical supply company but they're a real chemical supply company out of Quebec. The label "says" it's acetone anyway...

Click to expand...

Now that's something to think about. Thanks. But, it was my understanding that rubbing alcohol generally has a higher purity than the acetone at the home store. Maybe that's wrong? Or maybe the big jug from the boat supply store is cleaner for some reason?

It boils at a lower temp too/evaps more quickly. I like that. But, I wonder... will winterization with acetone work? I just searched on it and there doesn't seem to be any info on that.

I was told that the real pure types of Isopropyl had drying agents in them but I don't know for sure. I posted most of what I know in this thread before https://www.rollitup.org/t/roy-simpson-oil.1038099/
What's winterization?

Ta-dah said:

Now that's something to think about. Thanks. But, it was my understanding that rubbing alcohol generally has a higher purity than the acetone at the home store. Maybe that's wrong? Or maybe the big jug from the boat supply store is cleaner for some reason?

It boils at a lower temp too/evaps more quickly. I like that. But, I wonder... will winterization with acetone work? I just searched on it and there doesn't seem to be any info on that.

Click to expand...

Isopropanol boils higher than acetone. It is a good solvent for cannabinoids and a poor one for wax.
I would not winterize with acetone unless you use the full cold (dry ice temps) protocol. This is one place where iso will serve you better on both the front and back end.

i started by doing solvent extractions qwet method using 190 everclear. $250 plus a case in 2014. this is what i'm doing now.
i'm a cancer survivor that presently is taking 4/400mg capsules of solventless decarboxylated cannabis flower extract.
i don't smoke or vape. was told april 2014 i had 3 months to live because of the inoperable tumor that use to be my prostate.
so i'm just making medicine for my survival and what i have found to be the easiest, most consistent way for me to make my medicine is i hang the branches after a wet trim leaving any leaves with trichomes.
then when the outside of the flowers get a little brittle, about 3-4 days in my environment, then i clip the flowers off into a ardent nova for decarboxylation. i turn it upside down because it will cook alot more moisture out.
then the flowers go in a jar with a hygrometer and rotating until 70% rh. i go higher on rh because my flowers have already been "cooked".
and after all that stuff my bags with pre-pressed slabs of flower and squash out my ready to eat medicine. about 3 minutes at 220f.
i have a 30ton best value vac press i'm using for re-pressing, but my new love is dabpress's 12ton with 4x7 plates. highly recommend.
when ur doing high levels of solventless decarboxylated cannabis flower extract, consistency is the key to keeping ur sanity.
same strain, same size dose, decarbed the same, stored the same(keep my medicine in the frig in syringes until i load up 28 pills for the week.
if u work up to those levels and are consistent, it's not too bad, but if i didn't have to consume so much to survive, i wouldn't.
living with inoperable cancer isn't easy but it beats the alternative.

just remember to leave it in the sun for 20 mins to get rid of the chloraphyll, i find a long soak in iso plenty, i left the last lot in iso for about 3 monthes and it was fucking awsome. the longer you can soak it the better im my opinion