Do I need to defoliate more?

Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
One thing I notice is how aggressive you non defols are. Not sure what’s really going on there. May want to look into that.
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You love these threads dont you :) We already know that you dont defol you just prune. Nothing wrong with that at all
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
You love these threads dont you :) We already know that you dont defol you just prune. Nothing wrong with that at all
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I’m the dummy that pulls the middle ones. :bigjoint: I def think it’s a balance thing. It strikes me odd when people use the argument that removing branches and leaves slows growth but they proceed cut branches and leaves that are “on bottom”. That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around. But to each his own.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
I’m the dummy that pulls the middle ones. :bigjoint: I def think it’s a balance thing. It strikes me odd when people use the argument that removing branches and leaves slows growth but they proceed cut branches and leaves that are “on bottom”. That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around. But to each his own.
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I pull the big middle fans as well, and trim off the lower branches 3 to 4 weeks into 12/12. I dont consider myself a defoliator though.
Leaf stripping is counter productive
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
I pull the big middle fans as well, and trim off the lower branches 3 to 4 weeks into 12/12. I dont consider myself a defoliator though.
Leaf stripping is counter productive
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I started mainlining that way I don’t have to identify as a defol or not :lol:

What I do probably wouldn’t be considered defol to some. I don’t take much. Plus with mainlining there is no bottom! It’s perfect for me.
 
Tetrahedral

Tetrahedral

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
I’m the dummy that pulls the middle ones. :bigjoint: I def think it’s a balance thing. It strikes me odd when people use the argument that removing branches and leaves slows growth but they proceed cut branches and leaves that are “on bottom”. That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around. But to each his own.
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Lights aren't perfect but it's not defoliating like this new craze. You act like if you can prove that's defoliating you win the debate and defoliating is now some super cool new method we all missed until now.
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
Tetrahedral said:
Lights aren't perfect but it's not defoliating like this new craze. You act like if you can prove that's defoliating you win the debate and defoliating is now some super cool new method we all missed until now.
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Huh?

I’m saying cutting branches is cutting branches. If you think it hurts the plant then it shouldn’t matter if it comes from the bottom, middle, or top.
 
M

mark's grow

Member
Boatguy said:
You could get away with a single 400w led in there. And what is a sanlight, and why so expensive?
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That's what they sell at my local grow shop.
not sure about buying lights online ( don't have safe address to send the light)

(Loose lip sink ships saying ) very few people know I grow and I live in the uk

Really need a light that puts out heat 8 mouths of the year.
 
M

mark's grow

Member
Wattzzup said:
One thing I notice is how aggressive you non defols are. Not sure what’s really going on there. May want to look into that.
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I think it's because most growers that defols
Do it wrong and mess there plants up so I kind of get why so many growers are against this.

I used to be known as Gavin on thctalk and I had some good fun back then but I did see loads of growers get thing wrong and mess there plants up.
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
mark's grow said:
I think it's because most growers that defols
Do it wrong and mess there plants up so I kind of get why so many growers are against this.

I used to be known as Gavin on thctalk and I had some good fun back then but I did see loads of growers get thing wrong and mess there plants up.
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Worst seedling you were able to save

Came home yesterday to this. Apologies for the HPS Couple questions. 1 is this ready to harvest? 2 does anyone see anything wrong? 3 should I flush? 4 will this help get light to the bottom side of the plant to make my lower buds bigger? Seriously though Bruce Banner is the strain. It’s in...
www.rollitup.org

I don’t want to post my pics in his thread. But check mine out let me know if I took too much. You will probably laugh that I call it defol
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
mark's grow said:
That's what they sell at my local grow shop.
not sure about buying lights online ( don't have safe address to send the light)

(Loose lip sink ships saying ) very few people know I grow and I live in the uk

Really need a light that puts out heat 8 mouths of the year.
Click to expand...
https://diyleduk.com/ Has a good rep here. Highlights are nice fixtures for the money
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
One thing I notice is how aggressive you non defols are. Not sure what’s really going on there. May want to look into that.
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I think you are confusing stern advice over aggression. Times are changing and people are easier offended, but I simply speak the facts with no sugar coating. It is mostly newbs who butcher plants, or ill informed long term growers. If that sounds aggressive then I can't really put it any lighter, sorry.

There are some more experienced growers who defoliate and still yield well, but the thing is, they are simply removing a low enough amount as to not interfere with end yield, or at-least not noticeably enough. They then simply stroke their own ego and pass it off as being ''skilled defoliation''.. and some newb growers see the yield and get sucked into the whole plant butchering process.

Getting consistent 1gpw of mature bud isn't that difficult with the right strain, not allot of effort outside basic plant/environment understanding, like temp range and not feeding toxic amounts of P. No full plant defoliation was used. Getting to 1.3gpw of mature bud takes a little more understanding and decent environment control, still, no full plant defoliation was used. Reaching 1.5 is taking a lot more understanding of actual par values at canopy (light meter) vpd, ppm adjustments to match along with a potential need for co2 and the realisation that open space light loss starts to become more detrimental. According to defoliators, good yield is as simple as removing all of the leaves that utilise everything I have just mentioned.. yet when you ask a heavy defoliator how much the technique increased yield they say ''well I can't say for sure''.

And that there is it... I can tell you for sure what gets you from a 0.5gpw newb 1.3. This isn't to show off, 1.3 isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.. but that is well over 100% yield increase with not a single plant defoliated, while I can give anybody solid advice on how to do the same. Ask an experianced defoliator to do that.. they can't.
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
I think you are confusing stern advice over aggression. Times are changing and people are easier offended, but I simply speak the facts with no sugar coating. It is mostly newbs who butcher plants, or ill informed long term growers. If that sounds aggressive then I can't really put it any lighter, sorry.

There are some more experienced growers who defoliate and still yield well, but the thing is, they are simply removing a low enough amount as to not interfere with end yield, or at-least not noticeably enough. They then simply stroke their own ego and pass it off as being ''skilled defoliation''.. and some newb growers see the yield and get sucked into the whole plant butchering process.

Getting consistent 1gpw of mature bud isn't that difficult with the right strain, not allot of effort outside basic plant/environment understanding, like temp range and not feeding toxic amounts of P. No full plant defoliation was used. Getting to 1.3gpw of mature bud takes a little more understanding and decent environment control, still, no full plant defoliation was used. Reaching 1.5 is taking a lot more understanding of actual par values at canopy (light meter) vpd, ppm adjustments to match along with a potential need for co2 and the realisation that open space light loss starts to become more detrimental. According to defoliators, good yield is as simple as removing all of the leaves that utilise everything I have just mentioned.. yet when you ask a heavy defoliator how much the technique increased yield they say ''well I can't say for sure''.

And that there is it... I can tell you for sure what gets you from a 0.5gpw newb 1.3. This isn't to show off, 1.3 isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.. but that is well over 100% yield increase with not a single plant defoliated, while I can give anybody solid advice on how to do the same. go ask a defoliator to do that, they can't.
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Great post.

I wouldn’t even consider myself a defoliator after seeing some of the plants on here. I saw one the other day that didn’t look like it had one leaf.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
I think you are confusing stern advice over aggression. Times are changing and people are easier offended, but I simply speak the facts with no sugar coating. It is mostly newbs who butcher plants, or ill informed long term growers. If that sounds aggressive then I can't really put it any lighter, sorry.

There are some more experienced growers who defoliate and still yield well, but the thing is, they are simply removing a low enough amount as to not interfere with end yield, or at-least not noticeably enough. They then simply stroke their own ego and pass it off as being ''skilled defoliation''.. and some newb growers see the yield and get sucked into the whole plant butchering process.

Getting consistent 1gpw of mature bud isn't that difficult with the right strain, not allot of effort outside basic plant/environment understanding, like temp range and not feeding toxic amounts of P. No full plant defoliation was used. Getting to 1.3gpw of mature bud takes a little more understanding and decent environment control, still, no full plant defoliation was used. Reaching 1.5 is taking a lot more understanding of actual par values at canopy (light meter) vpd, ppm adjustments to match along with a potential need for co2 and the realisation that open space light loss starts to become more detrimental. According to defoliators, good yield is as simple as removing all of the leaves that utilise everything I have just mentioned.. yet when you ask a heavy defoliator how much the technique increased yield they say ''well I can't say for sure''.
th
And that there is it... I can tell you for sure what gets you from a 0.5gpw newb 1.3. This isn't to show off, 1.3 isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.. but that is well over 100% yield increase with not a single plant defoliated, while I can give anybody solid advice on how to do the same. Ask an experianced defoliator to do that.. they can't.
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All pretty true. A quick glance at the chuckers thread shows nothing but untrained plants that are healthy, even in tiny pots, most with nothing but the most basic care. Newb grows are typically overcomplicated trainwrecks with overcared for plants that arent left well enough alone
 
D

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
What’s the point of the video? We know plants will regrow what’s been stripped off. Wasted energy
 
P

p0opstlnksal0t

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
You know how this is true?.. because if it wasn't, plants wouldn't waste the energy growing leaves at the top. Just like polar bears wouldn't bother growing hair. As if nature has the luxury of being inefficient.

This moves onto the next thing. Topping plants is a loose form of defoliation. The reason this is done is for a completely human subjective one, being end yield.
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No skin in this argument but it should be mentioned that mother nature isn't after the same goals humans are when it comes to cannabis growth. The same can be said about professional bodybuilding. Bodybuilders undergo grueling lifting and cardio regimens that go far beyond "health and wellness" not to mention the diets which are so far beyond the realms of what normal folk could comprehend. They are hacking their genetics and using known biological sciences to tweak their physiques. Typically these are detrimental to health especially when you start talking about 4-5% bodyfat when they hit the stage or a pro powerlifter squatting over 1k pounds.

Mother nature isn't after the densest, stickiest, heaviest non seeded flowers on the plant that can possibly be grown. It's after a well rounded healthy plant that can bear offspring and start new progeny. Humans and mother nature aren't after the same things therefore humans use hacks that have been shown to better give us the outcome we desire.

Using the same old argument "mother nature knows best" or "why would God give cannabis plants leaves" to say defoliation techniques are wrong just aren't looking at this from the eyes of a person trying to "hack the plant" to produce more or different qualities from cannabis than mother nature intended. Sometimes the cost of stunted growth can easily be offset by increased yields especially if it means the larf will now become prime dense nugs after using a defol technique.
 
Tetrahedral

Tetrahedral

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
Who is we? Are you a group?
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We would be the I's that before present worked out what the present they's are saying.

You don't know my friends neighbours and growbuds but we're happy with our small group affiliation and the collective use of the word we. We even brainstormed a name for ourselves but id have to kill you after saying as it's kind of like our password, we figured those 420 kids had one so we would, pretty homo but they were cool so it can't be uncool for other pot heads to do the same in private.

There must be other groups of we's to, were happy to join them or them join us and make a larger group but if your doing the whole cannabis forum defoliate plants, screw up drying and using gimmicks as well as telling us unqualified crap about lights then we probably won't call back or technically be a group with you.

It's a free world were allowed to do this and call us we if we want.

Still defoliating is not great, seems like a lot of others agree and it was agreed before this so just by a simple Google of the past and still present support I can say those who argue it's favour are standing on a berg in tropical seas.
 
D

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
p0opstlnksal0t said:
No skin in this argument but it should be mentioned that mother nature isn't after the same goals humans are when it comes to cannabis growth. The same can be said about professional bodybuilding. Bodybuilders undergo grueling lifting and cardio regimens that go far beyond "health and wellness" not to mention the diets which are so far beyond the realms of what normal folk could comprehend. They are hacking their genetics and using known biological sciences to tweak their physiques. Typically these are detrimental to health especially when you start talking about 4-5% bodyfat when they hit the stage or a pro powerlifter squatting over 1k pounds.

Mother nature isn't after the densest, stickiest, heaviest non seeded flowers on the plant that can possibly be grown. It's after a well rounded healthy plant that can bear offspring and start new progeny. Humans and mother nature aren't after the same things therefore humans use hacks that have been shown to better give us the outcome we desire.

Using the same old argument "mother nature knows best" or "why would God give cannabis plants leaves" to say defoliation techniques are wrong just aren't looking at this from the eyes of a person trying to "hack the plant" to produce more or different qualities from cannabis than mother nature intended. Sometimes the cost of stunted growth can easily be offset by increased yields especially if it means the larf will now become prime dense nugs after using a defol technique.
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What a load of nonsense this is. Mother Nature is 100% after using light as efficiently as it can and flowering.
 
P

p0opstlnksal0t

Well-Known Member
DaFreak said:
What a load of nonsense this is. Mother Nature is 100% after using light as efficiently as it can and flowering.
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Youre wrong. The biology and mechanisms that drive the plant solely revolve around it reproducing and making seeds. How does that translate into seedless, hard, dense, heavy ass flowers that are covered in trichomes? It doesn't. no one is saying that removing leaves comes without a cost or that the plant can feed itself efficiently without leaves, at least I'm not. But strategic and we'll placed defoliation techniques have 100% been shown to increase yields in commercial grows on a SQ ft of canopy basis.
 
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