Do I need to put my fan on a timer?

panhead said:

Growing 5lb trees is no greater feat than growing a SOG or any other high yeild style,its more preference than skill level.

Instead of being insulted you should back up your advice,advice which goes directly against the growing process in nature & whats reccomended by most recgonized commercial master growers.

For those of us who dont want to read through multiple monster threads to find out what your talking about please tell us,its all part of the diuscussion & learning process,if it makes sense i'll try it & see how it goes,im sure others will as well.

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I thought I should have stated the efficiency of the KBS grows but figured you would actually read as opposed to busting my balls....... so lemme put it like this...... When you are getting 3+lbs per 1kw lamp, then I'll care what you have to say.

If you don't want me to be offended, then don't say my advice is bad......... and don't front for "most commercial growers" when I've just showed you the big boy toy.

TheFaux said:

I thought I should have stated the efficiency of the KBS grows but figured you would actually read as opposed to busting my balls....... so lemme put it like this...... When you are getting 3+lbs per 1kw lamp, then I'll care what you have to say.

If you don't want me to be offended, then don't say my advice is bad......... and don't front for "most commercial growers" when I've just showed you the big boy toy.

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First off let me say that at no time am i taking away from the growers skill that you posted links of in this thread,mainly because he is not part of this discussion,also because the links you posted are to some of the largest monster threads ive ever seen anywhere,links that would reqiure multiple hours of reading,due to this i have no idea of this mans ideals or grow methods,it wouldnt be fair for me to comment,im not attempting to digest all that info when you should be able to simply state your case as to why your reccomendation is what it was.

I still ask that you not be offended as that was & is still not my intent but still i must call bullshit,what you reccomend leaves many questions unanswered & without answers to the questions leaves the method looking unsafe & unhealthy for the plants.

Its simple from my end,how has adopting the method you reccomend helped your grows compared to more recognized & proven circulation methods ?

All right bro; you've made your investment in fans, so I know you're not going to wanna hear different. What exactly have I said that is bullshit? It's up to you to refute my statement since you are the one disagreeing with me.

For anyone that isn't afraid to read, I'll post some links to a couple articles from Maximum Yield magazine......

http://maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=363&yearVar=2008&issueVar=September

http://maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=376&yearVar=2008&issueVar=October
"...
Never turn on the fans in the first phase and avoid aiming them at the leaves. Through the fan, the air around the leaves will dry out very quickly causing them to interpret this as a low humidity.
..."
http://maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=385&yearVar=2008&issueVar=November

Just read the articles before you get pissed off and start breaking shit.

TheFaux said:

All right bro; you've made your investment in fans, so I know you're not going to wanna hear different. What exactly have I said that is bullshit? It's up to you to refute my statement since you are the one disagreeing with me.

For anyone that isn't afraid to read, I'll post some links to a couple articles from Maximum Yield magazine......

http://maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=363&yearVar=2008&issueVar=September

http://maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=376&yearVar=2008&issueVar=October
"...
Never turn on the fans in the first phase and avoid aiming them at the leaves. Through the fan, the air around the leaves will dry out very quickly causing them to interpret this as a low humidity.
..."
http://maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=385&yearVar=2008&issueVar=November

Just read the articles before you get pissed off and start breaking shit.

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Ok,we've got off on the wrong foot somehow,i thought i spelled out what i was refuting in my first post but i can make it clearer incase i missed something,and i am not pissed,never was but the info your giving is not applicable,it may be to some degree benifical in an advanced grow op but in a standard grow op it has no value & only negative side effects.

Im sure the articles are full of good info but they are massive,way too much to read for me.

First off humidity in a properly set up grow room should be a non issue or a very small issue at best,a grower should have the ability to control humidity levels at all times,if a grower cant control the humidity due to such a small atmospheric change as heavy air circulation then he has bigger fish to fry than air movement,humidity is one of the easiest issues to correct with simple intake & exhaust.

What i am refuting is where you reccomend to not have air blowing directly on the plants or leaf surface.

1 Lack of air movement directly on the plants promotes thin & weak stalk growth,this can leave the plant structure too weak to support itself later on in the grow as the plant height increases,it also can leave the stalk & stems in a weakend state not allowing them to support the weight of the buds.

2 Lack of air movement directly on the plants removes any natural stimulation that plants recieve in a natural setting.

3 Lack of air movement at the base of the stalks in soil grows promotes stem rott.

4 Lack of air movement through the entire canopy aids in creating an enviroment which is a perfect breeding ground for spider mites,mites choose leaves with the least movement to call home.

5 Lack of air movement on the soil surface again aids in the breding of garden pests,spider mites,white flys,fruit flys ect,once they get a foot hold in the garden the real fun starts trying to get rid of them.

6 Lack of air movement at the soil surface slows the drying process of the soil,watering the plants in soil grows is the only form of oxygen delievery to the root structure,increased time between waterings can create oxygen deprived root ststems.

7 Lack of air movement through the entire garden can help create hot spots or uneven temps througout the garden.

8 Lack of air movement around the base of the planters/pot's creates a perfect breeding ground for mold & other fungi to breed freely,fresh air is the best way to stop mold from forming to start with,fresh moving air is also a better way to eleminate existing mold,better than any household cleaner,including bleach.

9 Lack of fresh air blowing directly on the buds creates the perfect conditions for bud rott,it also creates a condition where humidity levels become of maximum importance in the final weeks of the bud phase,the more fresh air reaching the bud the higher humidity they can tollerate before allowing mold to breed.

10 Lack of air movement directly over the leaf surface in a room not using supplemental co2 can leave the area around the leaf structure in a state of decreased co2.

Summary.

Every last one of the conditions above can be eleminated, or at the very least have a greatly reduced risk of ever getting a foot hold in a grow op by having proper air circulation at all times,the increased risk factor involved by having a stale air enviroment in the garden hardly seems worth the risk just to stop the plants from interperting the air flow as a low humidity enviroment.

TheFaux said:

If it's not oscillating, you can blow it on the plants..... doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You'll want high humidity if you just absolutely have to blow on your girls; otherwise you're gonna stress them and dry them out.

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panhead said:

This is complete nonsense my friend & needs to be checked,im not one to refute others advice but when it's just plain bad advice such as the above it needs checked.

......

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You are the only one talking about stagnant air. Where did I ever say anything like, "stagnate your air for more dank." You're way off base so I'm going to keep it simple.

You quoted the above post in that reply that you gave... the other quote.... your quote..... the one that I just quoted above in this very post (redundancy so there's no more confusion). But then you go off on this stagnant air bit, and I'm kinda wondering if you can be reasoned with.

I post 3 links of 1 page articles that take 5 minutes to read, and a quote, from the most respected indoor grow magazine in print, and ask you to read it before you say anything else. You still ask what I mean, and then when I show you, you don't wanna know.

So you just tell me what I am saying, compare that to what I have said (feel free to quote), and then tell me how I'm full of shit.

I just don't understand how you can be so unreasonable. I never said blowing fans across your...

...........fuck it.

And you say i cant be reasoned with how hard is it for you to explain the position you've taken anways ?

Here we see you saying that it is not good to blow air directly on the plants,this is what i call bullshit on,i then ask for you to explain your position on this & your reasoning behind your reccomendation.

Instead of taking 2 minutes to type an answer in your own words you post links requiring me to reasearch to even have a clue what your position might be on the subject,then you call me lazy for not reading them

TheFaux said:

If it's not oscillating, you can blow it on the plants..... doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You'll want high humidity if you just absolutely have to blow on your girls; otherwise you're gonna stress them and dry them out.

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Again we see you clearly reccomending not to blow air directly on the plants claiming stress & that it will dry out your plants,i then ask you to explain your position by telling us what your reccomended method has done for you in your grows,instead of telling us in your own words what this has accomplished in your grow op you again point to the links you've posted,then tell me its my obligation to refute your reccomended.

I took the time to clearly refute what you have reccomended in a logical & easy to follow post that clearly outlined exactly what i was refuting & why i was refuting it to begin with,i also took the time to spell out each & every last negative drawback to not having fresh air blowing directly on the plants & you cant take the time to tell us why your chosen method is better,still no respose explaining your position.

TheFaux said:

Run them on the same timer as your lights, and don't be blowing on the plants.

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Once again you reccomend not to blow air on the plants & claim lazyness on my part & name drop about a respected magazine,i am not interested in what a magazine has to say what i am interested in hearing what your method has accomplished IN YOUR GROW OP,that cant be all that hard to understand nor to exlain,if im being unreasonable by simply asking you to explain how by not having moving air blow directly on your plants has benifited your grow as oposed to more accepted & standardized methods then there is no sense continuing this conversation,for some reason you clearly do not want to tell us how your grow got better once you stopped blowing air on the plants.

All i ever wanted to know from you is why the method you reccomend is a valid method,pretty simple to atriculate i'd think,but i cant be reasoned with

I would just leave this topic alone. It's obvious that Faux feels corrected and doesn't like it. Learn and move on bro, it's all part of growing. You're wrong about the whole air and fan thing. You should have the air moving at all times and creating a slight breeze ON your canopy, PERIOD. The only way you would dry them out, is if you aimed it directly on one spot and had the fan blowing too hard for a long period of time. I might do this and post pics and we will see how long it takes for the plant to "dry" out...

lots of debating here
my grow, fans on 24/7 since its a small box it brings in fresh air and blow right at my plants, my plants are small but have quite a thick stem compared to others iv seen (check out my grow, it in my sig)

TheFaux

I read the articles, every one and every part. You've completely misinterpreted them, all of them. Most speak of humidity, their information on that topic seems valid but it doesn't talk about not blowing the canopy, or fans really in those. The one that does, the one with the direct quote you make of "Never turn on the fans in the first phase and avoid aiming them at the leaves. Through the fan, the air around the leaves will dry out very quickly causing them to interpret this as a low humidity."

That quote refers to fresh cuttings (clones). ONLY CUTTINGS though they don't call them cuttings they are calling them slices or some oddball thing.

The words spoken by Panhead and everyone after him trying to tell you the truth (which were 100% accurate and very well explained btw) seem lost on you because of other things you have first misingterpreted and then taken as gospel.

Fans are your friend, leaves moving ***at all times*** are crutial to maximum success and anyone that says otherwise is just plain wrong. If you can find a well documented case that shows otherwise and not make us read 10 pages to see what you mean I will read and re-interpret that for you as well.

i only have fans on during lights on. i have a small fan blowing on my ballast. i have a fan hooked to my vented hood/scrubber, and a fan (gently) blowing on my plants. imo, this air circulation that is taking place during lights on is more than sufficient to strengthen the stems. i don't feel that a fan (for me) is necessary during lights off. then again, i only grow a max of 6 plants at a time. now, if i had a room full, i probably would leave a fan blowing. either way, it's def not worth fighting over. it's personal preference until you can test it out and see for yourself.

Ive got great trusted info from panhead and he is pretty successful at his ops... not just that but look at his thriving plants that alone can tell you he has researched and thought it out and trial and error most of his work... I had my 30" box fan off during the night time cycle and started finding the soil was not drying out as it normally would... Ive read on four different sites that mites hate movement and will usually settle in soil untill they find the right conditions ont he plant.. IE lower leaves and dying leaves, inner leaves that dont get hit with wind or moving air. now on the humidity part. the fans on at night i found will lower the temps quite a bit being its moving the fresh air in and the warm air out.. but thats not really a problem as long as it doesnt drop more than 10 percent of the daytime temp... 80 to 70 is fine 80 to 60 is not...also the plant needs the oxygen and fresh co2 to keep it from stressing.. when I took away the fans at nite I could see a deffined change in the leaves color, structure, and stem thickness. After I turned it back on during the nite and checked it daily during the lights on period I could see them thicken up and the leaves again had a darker green tint... The only recommendation that ive found is with a huge amount of air on the plant all the time I noticed a wind type burn on the leaves... this was not due to over nute cause i wasnt using any just soil with 3 month supply, watered normally.

I can tell you its up to the individual to do what he feels the plants need to thrive... if it works keep doing it if somethings showes as abnormal ask or change your approach