Do young people realize that health care is not going to be free?

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Why get health care? Just sign up when you get sick for a policy. They cannot deny preexisting conditions anymore. Its like buying car insurance after you get in a car accident.
I am sure you can do that......I am not sure how much the fine will be every year, I am sure they will keep track,.....Then if you ever file for a tax return the goverment will take it all, and more than likely have a federal lean on you that will follow you all your life........

So if you want to buy a house or a car or get a loan for anything....you may have trouble.......IMO......nitro..
 

squarepush3r

Well-Known Member
I am sure you can do that......I am not sure how much the fine will be every year, I am sure they will keep track,.....Then if you ever file for a tax return the goverment will take it all, and more than likely have a federal lean on you that will follow you all your life........

So if you want to buy a house or a car or get a loan for anything....you may have trouble.......IMO......nitro..
As with everything tax-related, there's no simple answer to "How much is the Obamacare penalty tax?" But here are some key points, from FactCheck.org:

  • The penalty/tax will be phased in from 2014 to 2016.
  • The minimum penalty/tax in 2016 will be $695 per person and up to 3-times that per family. After 2016, these amounts will increase at the rate of inflation.
  • The minimum penalty/tax per person will start at $95 in 2014 (and then increase through 2016)
  • No family will ever pay more than 3X the per-person penalty, regardless of how many people are in the family.
  • The $695 per-person penalty is only for those who make between $9,500 and ~$37,000 per year. If you make less than ~$9.500, you're exempt. If you make more than ~$37,000, your penalty is calculated by the following formula...
  • The penalty is 2.5% of any household income above the level at which you are required to file a tax return. That level is currently $9,500 per person and $19,000 per couple. The penalty on any income above that is 2.5%. So the penalty can get expensive quickly if you make a lot of money.
  • However, the penalty can never be more than the cost of a "Bronze" heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state "exchanges" that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter.
So, basically, you're looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:

  • Less than $9,500 income = $0
  • $9,500 - $37,000 income = $695
  • $50,000 income = $1,000
  • $75,000 income = $1,600
  • $100,000 income = $2,250
  • $125,000 income = $2,900
  • $150,000 income = $3,500
  • $175,000 income = $4,100
  • $200,000 income = $4,700
  • Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan
The IRS will collect the penalty-tax, a fact that will no doubt further enrage those who hate Obamacare.
But here's some more good news for those folks:
The IRS will not have the power to charge you criminally or seize your assets if you refuse to pay. The IRS will only have the ability to sue you. And the most the IRS can collect from you if it wins the suit is 2X the amount you owe. So if you want to thumb your nose at the penalty-tax, the IRS won't be able to do as much to you as they could if you refused to pay, say, income tax.
By the way, the following folks will be exempt from the penalty-tax:

  • Those who make less than $9,500
  • Employees whose employers only offer plans that cost more than 8% of the employee's income
  • Those with "hardships"
  • Members of Indian tribes
  • Members of certain religions that don't pay Social Security tax, such as Amish, Hutterites, or Mennonites
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
I just got this in the mail......this is from the state of oregon.....everybody pays .......and who ever it was that said the cost was going down just got punked by barryO...............................nitro..
 

Attachments

sync0s

Well-Known Member
Eventually
False logic. You don't know if that person is a millionaire or has enough money saved to pay for medical procedures. You don't know that the person will ever make it to a hospital or doctor before they die.

Add in your own information in order to make your point seem right.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
If everyone pays. The cost goes down. Time for the freeloaders on the system to pay their share
Hey ChesusRice.....

I think you were miss lead......You should of said "If everyone pays..The cost goes up".....because that is what happened.......and it continues to go up every 4 years no matter who you are........the facts are in...........the koolaid drinkers just got punked by BarryO and there is nothing you can do about it......It looks like It would be cheaper to pay the fine, but that is the way the goverment is going after young healthy people......The tax returns that poor people have counted on will create some revenue for the fed's....and the feds can do anything they want with the fine money.....

So it kinda turned out to be the same as it was except it cost more......The people that already were paying for health care are still covering for the people that can't.....and the people that can't just lost there tax returns...................

That looks like a win win.....................nitro..
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I have what the state offers people that can't get Insurance......The companys that offer In's in my state all turned me down, so I have the oregon health plan and it is not cheap....So I have insurance that is run by the government already.......Do you see Obama care competing with the state insurance programs?.....I don't really.........For some reason I am thinking this obama care was a way to trick poor people into paying more tax's,.... but at the same time make them think they are getting something, that is going to be free.....

Health care right now is free for poor people the last time I looked.....But those days are almost gone.......This discussion may be a little early......nitro..

This is where you are mistaken. On the one hand you are saying that young people will come to understand that health care is not free and on the other you are claiming that health care for the poor IS free. it isn't free for anyone. "free" healthcare for the poor" is paid for by you and me, so what is the difference except that the paying pool will grow larger and so people will pay less overall, not to mention that the most expensive health care, the kind that is dispensed to those who use the ER as their regular doctor, will be significantly reduced.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I just found out that my health care that I have through the state of oregon will be taken over by Obamacare.....so I guess I will find out if the price goes up or down soon.....


http://www.theskanner.com/article/Obamacare-Why-Oregon-is-the-State-to-Watch-2012-08-27

............silly me I thought I was going to get something new...like competition to drive the price down...............nitro..

Competition? Oh, you mean that competition that involves interstate insurance companies. Here is the truth on that. Any major health insurance company can get themselves in any and all states if they wished. They don't because they don't want the competition. This means that the insurance companies effectively divided the country up. Making a law that "allows" companies to compete will do absolutely nothing to the current "arrangement". There is no national law that prohibits competition between the insurance carriers - this is a tall tale offered to you in explaination for the reality that you are being duped and will be duped again if they are "allowed" to compete.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Why get health care? Just sign up when you get sick for a policy. They cannot deny preexisting conditions anymore. Its like buying car insurance after you get in a car accident.


Exept that every citizen under Obamacare will be forced to have insurance.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Ask any auto insurance seller why auto insurance is so expensive.

The answer is becuase of uninsured drivers


Any questions?
 

SSHZ

Well-Known Member
What no one has mentioned is (1) how the doctors currently available are going to handle the influx of the millions of patients that will now have insurance, (2) doctors and hospitals unwillingness to accept the reduced medicare payments and therefore will stop accepting medicare all together and (3) the increase of older patients that's about to hit healthcare during the next 10 years. Although it all sounds great, there are tons of problems and issues about to hit us all. Like a two week wait to see your doctor, 6 month wait for a simple operation, the hiring of 15,000 new IRS employees just to monitor IRS returns for insurance compliance (bigger gov.), and on and on. There are estimates that over 10% of current doctors will retire in the next 5 years rather then deal with the changes that are coming. Bottom line is- if you don't have insurance now, you will be better off. And if you do have insurance, you will be worse off. So, the poor will be better off and the richer will continue to have their earnings sucked dry by Obama's wealth distribution.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
What no one has mentioned is (1) how the doctors currently available are going to handle the influx of the millions of patients that will now have insurance, (2) doctors and hospitals unwillingness to accept the reduced medicare payments and therefore will stop accepting medicare all together and (3) the increase of older patients that's about to hit healthcare during the next 10 years. Although it all sounds great, there are tons of problems and issues about to hit us all. Like a two week wait to see your doctor, 6 month wait for a simple operation, the hiring of 15,000 new IRS employees just to monitor IRS returns for insurance compliance (bigger gov.), and on and on. There are estimates that over 10% of current doctors will retire in the next 5 years rather then deal with the changes that are coming. Bottom line is- if you don't have insurance now, you will be better off. And if you do have insurance, you will be worse off. So, the poor will be better off and the richer will continue to have their earnings sucked dry by Obama's wealth distribution.
.


So your suggestion is

Let them die?

BTW
Politifact rates your rant mostly false
 

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
Ask any auto insurance seller why auto insurance is so expensive.

The answer is becuase of uninsured drivers


Any questions?
yes, how can repair shops charge so much money if no one had car insurance? They cant, if no one had car insurance the price of repairs would be cheaper. They go around sniffing eachothers farts.

Insurance company: hey repair shop why don't you raise your price so people will have to pay higher deductibles and will be less likely to use us while we continue to raise their rates. We will say its because you guys raised your rates;

Repair shops : no way you mean we can jack the price up and you will still pay us this ridiculous amount.

fart sniff ahhhhh

this goes for all insurance its a scam.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
yes, how can repair shops charge so much money if no one had car insurance? They cant, if no one had car insurance the price of repairs would be cheaper. They go around sniffing each others farts.

Insurance company: hey repair shop why don't you raise your price so people will have to pay higher deductibles and will be less likely to use us while we continue to raise their rates. We will say its because you guys raised your rates;

Repair shops : no way you mean we can jack the price up and you will still pay us this ridiculous amount.

fart sniff ahhhhh

this goes for all insurance its a scam.
And BTW, car insurance is not taxed, as value add chain, like the new heathcare. Tax on everything, at every level drives up cost for consumers. It has never been about the un-insured. And it has never been about the rich paying the fair share. All smoke screens.

We are headed for a value add tax, economy. Do you know that every medical device, implant, prosthesis, etc will be taxed? Already is taxed? It is the law.

I'm about to go in for my second cornea replacement. More expensive this time. A $1500 slice of gel. + TAX. Does the Insurance pay the tax? Hell no.

So, here is the problem. Everyone knows that splint is not $90, that Ace bandage is not $50. That is the funny money cross charge they use to bilk the Insurance and the Insurance uses the bilk the Hospital. A merry go round of rip-off.

But, see, this inflated, funny money, that has no basis in supply/demand, is a totally contrived number for mainly bookkeeping and collections, is now the basis of the new consumer heath TAX.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
By the way, the following folks will be exempt from the penalty-tax:

  • Those who make less than $9,500
  • Employees whose employers only offer plans that cost more than 8% of the employee's income
  • Those with "hardships"
  • Members of Indian tribes
  • Members of certain religions that don't pay Social Security tax, such as Amish, Hutterites, or Mennonites
... and those who domicile outside of the USA.
 
What no one has mentioned is (1) how the doctors currently available are going to handle the influx of the millions of patients that will now have insurance, (2) doctors and hospitals unwillingness to accept the reduced medicare payments and therefore will stop accepting medicare all together and (3) the increase of older patients that's about to hit healthcare during the next 10 years. Although it all sounds great, there are tons of problems and issues about to hit us all. Like a two week wait to see your doctor, 6 month wait for a simple operation, the hiring of 15,000 new IRS employees just to monitor IRS returns for insurance compliance (bigger gov.), and on and on. There are estimates that over 10% of current doctors will retire in the next 5 years rather then deal with the changes that are coming. Bottom line is- if you don't have insurance now, you will be better off. And if you do have insurance, you will be worse off. So, the poor will be better off and the richer will continue to have their earnings sucked dry by Obama's wealth distribution.
Doctors will handle the influx of new patients by hiring Nurse Practitioners. They talk to you, take notes and relay your information as well as, importantly, relay your questions to the doctor if anything is serious. The doctor will still make decisions for whats best for you you just don't see him. You can still see him but it may take a lot longer than it used to. I just had a great experience with a Nurse Practitioner for my Crohn's flare up..she called me, checked up on me, did everything she could to help me as well as relaying all the information I needed from the doctor. I dont have insurance so it was a lot harder but she still helped me and informed me my marijuana use was a good idea as well as buying meds from canada for a more affordable price. Now I am healthy again. I didn't need to personally see the doctor to get good treatment. For cancer patients, I think it may not be good because they need doctors there, for sure. I am worried about cancer patients not being able to get the health care they need.

As for how I feel about this law. Well, my disease is pre-existing so with Obamacare I will pay like 300$ less a month for health care. I will be able to afford it. So naturally, I support the law. I had a lot of hurdles having no insurance but again, I couldn't afford it and just prayed for no flare up. Hospitals may give free emergency care, but they aren't going to do preventative care like colonoscopies and the such. They don't pay for your meds once you leave.

Hospitals actually are some of the biggest supporters of Obamacare since fewer people will come into the hospitals and will go to doctors since they will be able to afford it. A lot of people go into the hospitals for any type of problem that isn't an emergency and it takes up beds and is expensive for them.

Do I think Obamacare will work? No, I think it is just a stepping stone to nationalized health care. I believe it was set up to fail.
 
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