Does it matter which plant I use for the parents when breeding?

So I have two fantastic varieties I work.
I was gifted a superb La Chocolate cut I have been running for a few years. At some point soon, I need to reverse this honey, and self her so I can have some S1 seedstock.
I also have a Hazeman Mikado i grew from reg seed, that I absolutely love, which I also want to reverse and get S1s...
Back to the original question, if I'm working with girly pollen, and I decided to cross these two standout phenos I adore, what, if any, difference could be anticipated, by choosing the "he-her" pollen?

Chip Green said:

So I have two fantastic varieties I work.
I was gifted a superb La Chocolate cut I have been running for a few years. At some point soon, I need to reverse this honey, and self her so I can have some S1 seedstock.
I also have a Hazeman Mikado i grew from reg seed, that I absolutely love, which I also want to reverse and get S1s...
Back to the original question, if I'm working with girly pollen, and I decided to cross these two standout phenos I adore, what, if any, difference could be anticipated, by choosing the "he-her" pollen?

Click to expand...

Zero difference between using male vs female pollen outside of the seeds all being female (female pollen)

Dryxi said:

Zero difference between using male vs female pollen outside of the seeds all being female (female pollen)

Click to expand...

Also dont want to smoke the flower off your reversed girl, and you will not get as many seeds as you would from using a male (males make more pollen)

Dryxi said:

Agree to disagree. All is well.

Do you know why that happens about selfing not being 100% female. Not discrediting but wondering why, I would've thought that it would be impossible to find a male in self'd or feminized seed, unless a stray male pollen got in there. Only reason I say is from what I was saying above, regarding males needing that Y chromosome, and females not possessing it.

Click to expand...

A form of Chaos Theory. Nature finds a way... Inevitable math variation in genetic possibilities by a simple mutation? Never found anyone attempting to explain it in any paper's...... There are those who say science has all the answers. Well, science can't explain everything it finds. Variations in many things happen that we are still reaching to understand.

Observe & Report said:

Without genetic testing you can't say if it was male or female, selfed or contaminated and none of these would-be Mendels bother to do so. Could be XX expressing male flowers, could be contamination, nobody knows. Doesn't stop them from making bullshit claims though.

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Really? BS claims?

Take a deep read at Matt Riots site.
How about you ask the boys at Mephisto, Smell Boat, Canarado or about ANY QUALITY breeder for that matter. Give them a call and ask...
You don't want to believe me......I've personally seen it twice.....

There is NO guarantee of 100% fem beans from ANY selfing!

Dryxi said:

Zero difference between using male vs female pollen outside of the seeds all being female (female pollen)

Click to expand...

Again....

There is NO GUARANTEE OF 100% FEM BEANS FROM ANY SELFING!

Dr. Who said:

Really? BS claims?

Take a deep read at Matt Riots site.
How about you ask the boys at Mephisto, Smell Boat, Canarado or about ANY QUALITY breeder for that matter. Give them a call and ask...
You don't want to believe me......I've personally seen it twice.....

There is NO guarantee of 100% fem beans from ANY selfing!

Click to expand...

Well, were those "males" actual XY males from contamination or were they XX females expressing male flowers and how do you know? Because "my bro says so and he breeds fire" is not persuasive.

Nobody doubts that they and you have found "males" in your packs of fem seeds. The question is if they are normal males from contamination of unrelated pollen or freak females that express 100% male flowers without artificially suppressing ethylene. It doesn't seem improbable that a female could have a mutation that prevents it from producing ethylene. Nobody knows because nobody has tested one of these freak plants but that doesn't stop people from pretending they know the answer.

One thing for sure though is two XX females can't produce an XY male. It just doesn't work that way.

Dr. Who said:

There are those who say science has all the answers.

Click to expand...

Those people are wrong.

Dr. Who said:

Well, science can't explain everything it finds.

Click to expand...

In that case, the appropriate thing to say is "I don't know" and not proceed as if you do know.

Science is just the best method yet devised to discover the truth about the world and how things work. It is proven to be much more reliable than other methods like sitting around and thinking really hard, revelation, Lysenkoism, scholasticism, and other forms of broscience.


Nobody knows why males are sometimes found in fem packs. My guess is in most cases it is regular pollen contamination, since pollen is everywhere, breeders aren't operating in legit sterile facilities, and its a simple explanation that doesn't require any new or unusual biology, but nobody really knows.

Using science we could get an answer but that takes a lot of hard work, time, and money that nobody wants to spend.

Observe & Report said:

Those people are wrong.


In that case, the appropriate thing to say is "I don't know" and not proceed as if you do know.

Science is just the best method yet devised to discover the truth about the world and how things work. It is proven to be much more reliable than other methods like sitting around and thinking really hard, revelation, Lysenkoism, scholasticism, and other forms of broscience.


Nobody knows why males are sometimes found in fem packs. My guess is in most cases it is regular pollen contamination, since pollen is everywhere, breeders aren't operating in legit sterile facilities, and its a simple explanation that doesn't require any new or unusual biology, but nobody really knows.

Using science we could get an answer but that takes a lot of hard work, time, and money that nobody wants to spend.

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It happens, PERIOD!

Using science to explain everything to a "T" doesn't work!
Many branch's of science have area's of the unexplained they can not find an answer to.

Like I said, how about you ask some "name" breeders?

Drop Matt Riot a line and ask

Drop the guys at Mephisto a line

Ask about any "name" breeder you want!

The answer is always going to be that a ratio of about 1:3000 seeds will be male! That is a Chance of a male at .03333333 %

Hell google it and there you will find truthful sites and breeders saying 99%. Not to mention those as holy as you think you are.....
How about you call up any quality Ag science dept at a good Ag college!
Being stuck on personal assumption/opinion is ???

Your stand is on pure science but, without nature throwing a curve...
Nature finds a way....Chaos Theory...

I found a bean in a commercial seed set and from personal selfings.
These personal selfings were done in the strictest conditions, NO accidents possible....

Dr. Who said:

It happens, PERIOD!

Using science to explain everything to a "T" doesn't work!
Many branch's of science have area's of the unexplained they can not find an answer to.

Like I said, how about you ask some "name" breeders?

Drop Matt Riot a line and ask

Drop the guys at Mephisto a line

Ask about any "name" breeder you want!

The answer is always going to be that a ratio of about 1:3000 seeds will be male! That is a Chance of a male at .03333333 %

Hell google it and there you will find truthful sites and breeders saying 99%. Not to mention those as holy as you think you are.....
How about you call up any quality Ag science dept at a good Ag college!
Being stuck on personal assumption/opinion is ???

Your stand is on pure science but, without nature throwing a curve...
Nature finds a way....Chaos Theory...

I found a bean in a commercial seed set and from personal selfings.
These personal selfings were done in the strictest conditions, NO accidents possible....

Click to expand...

Your arguing a point, based completely on less than 1% chance of something other than normal happening. Your totally right, random shit happens.

All in all, a teeny tiny itsy bitsy chance that a random male shows up out of feminized seeds, it is still correct to say feminized seeds are going to give you female plants. I cant take the word of breeders selling gear, when it would be pretty bad for them to say "100% of the time your going to have a female with these seeds", and then randomly a male pollen gets in there to make a male plant.

Science can explain everything, we just dont know how for everything yet. The answers are there and everything is caused/happens due to something. You cannot create a Y chromosome when the parents don't have it. It doesn't just pop into being.

Is it even possible to say without a doubt you got that male because a male pollen didn't get in the room somehow? Not really, shit is in the air and you had to open the door at some point to your room. Unless your running some crazy expensive laboratory setup that is actually made to be 100% sure nothing can ever get in the room, I'm gonna stick with somehow, in some way, male pollen made a male seed.

Agreed, science is our only reliable source of pushing the edges of discovery.

Sigh..

Ya'all just don't get it. You fight soo hard to say that science say's it can't happen, so your right.

You're not on this one.
Get up off your ass and actually ASK whom YOU may consider a "PRO"...

Last Prof I spoke to on this topic said, and I quote,,"I don't know, it just happens"... He was the one who brought up my line on, Inevitable mathematical result of non specific genetic variation or mutation?

He quoted Jeff Goldblum from Jurassic park - "Nature finds a way."
Then went on to say,,"It's the plant willing it's self to actually reproduce.... In the animal kingdom. There are creatures that can change from female to male to keep the balance when males are not available or in short supply. So why not a plant?"

This was an Agronomy scientist speaking. His minor is Botany - go figure

Dr. Who said:

Sigh..

Ya'all just don't get it. You fight soo hard to say that science say's it can't happen, so your right.

You're not on this one.
Get up off your ass and actually ASK whom YOU may consider a "PRO"...

Last Prof I spoke to on this topic said, and I quote,,"I don't know, it just happens"... He was the one who brought up my line on, Inevitable mathematical result of non specific genetic variation or mutation?

He quoted Jeff Goldblum from Jurassic park - "Nature finds a way."
Then went on to say,,"It's the plant willing it's self to actually reproduce.... In the animal kingdom. There are creatures that can change from female to male to keep the balance when males are not available or in short supply. So why not a plant?"

This was an Agronomy scientist speaking. His minor is Botany - go figure

Click to expand...

I can totally give in to that example. I wish you had grown one of them to say whether the seeds of it were all female (with the < .1% chance of another male). Then we could assume that both are correct, in that a XX male, basically the same as a reversed female but doesn't make flowers, was created to further reproduce in a situation where no XY pollen was in the room, at a rate way below 1%, and saying that feminized seeds are all female, while unfortunately very definite sounding, would be a clear example of generalization.

Dryxi said:

I can totally give in to that example. I wish you had grown one of them to say whether the seeds of it were all female (with the < .1% chance of another male). Then we could assume that both are correct, in that a XX male, basically the same as a reversed female but doesn't make flowers, was created to further reproduce in a situation where no XY pollen was in the room, at a rate way below 1%, and saying that feminized seeds are all female, while unfortunately very definite sounding, would be a clear example of generalization.

Click to expand...

I have been using STS to feminize for some time and have found a full blown male. My question is would the pollen be feminized.

A male (xx) would save alot of hassle STS spray forcing male flowers from female plants. Anyone have any info if this rouge STS feminized male plant of mine could be (xx)? and when crossed with a female would produce feminized seed +/- 0.01%?
There is no way of regular male contamination in the room and its the 1st time anyone has ever seen this bizzar phenominom in my seeds.

In regular breeding I find the taste and smell come more from the male and potency comes more from the mother

ianarchy said:

A male (xx) would save alot of hassle STS spray forcing male flowers from female plants. Anyone have any info if this rouge STS feminized male plant of mine could be (xx)? and when crossed with a female would produce feminized seed +/- 0.01%?
There is no way of regular male contamination in the room and its the 1st time anyone has ever seen this bizzar phenominom in my seeds.

Click to expand...

If you have it still, maybe try it as a test? I'd be interested in how it ended up.

Dryxi said:

s it even possible to say without a doubt you got that male because a male pollen didn't get in the room somehow? Not really, shit is in the air and you had to open the door at some point to your room. Unless your running some crazy expensive laboratory setup that is actually made to be 100% sure nothing can ever get in the room, I'm gonna stick with somehow, in some way, male pollen made a male seed.

Click to expand...

Yes
Nope
I can
Enjoy your opinion.

ianarchy said:

I have been using STS to feminize for some time and have found a full blown male. My question is would the pollen be feminized.

Click to expand...

Try it out.
In the one I got from my own selfings.
It had a rather high % of females but did produce some male plants.

To further on your contaminant pollen theory. I have never heard of any grower getting seeds from a ''cuttings crop'' pollinated by rogue pollen contamination from some other grow. I have never found seed in crops unless Im breeding. And I havent used any regular male pollen in crossing for decades.