RastaMonsta
Active Member
update? bump
Dyna-Gro vs General Hydroponics (Dumpster Grow)
- Thread starter homebrewer
- Start date
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Epicseeds, great post! I've thought about running their 7-9-5 from start to finish as I'm really wanting to see if the P value is as important as every nute company wants us to think. +rep
Today is day 49 of 60 and Im happy to report that with the encouragement of a few of you, I bought a TDS meter. While its absolutely possible to dial in a feeding schedule reading plants, its MUCH easier knowing exactly how potent some of these nutrients can be. For instance, the DG feeding schedule during the peak of flowering claims their nutes with 50ppm water brings your res to 1400ish PPM. My calculations had it up over 2000ppm. I even did some tests with GH and their recommended schedule and I was up around 2200ppm with them too. Unless there is some kind of ppm conversion I should know about, I mixed and read accurately AND took into account the base PPM of my own water. Again, more potent nutes makes them cheaper to use so Im not complaining at all, though it makes sense now that I saw burn at supposedly conservative levels. Anyways, my point is that you guys were right. If you want, Ill post the PPM contributions of the products Im using so you can dial in a schedule that works for you.
As far as the plants go, things are going well. Theyre needing tied up, the buds are rock hard and the ones that arent tied up are leaning against each other. Ive cut the grow formula out as it appears that less and less nitrogen has been needed after about week 4 and Im feeding with about 10mls of bloom, 5 of protekt and 1ml of magpro. This puts me at around 1300ppm. I still think GH has the resin advantage but Im very happy with the potential yield here with DG. Being that this is my first time working with DG, even if I come out with the same yield that I normally get with GH, thats still quite impressive as it took me a while to finally get a schedule that worked with GH. Another thing I noticed is the number of red hairs on the GH plant and the lack of them on the DG plants. Will I need to flower for 2 more weeks instead of 10 days? We will see. I do use a 'ripener' with GH and it appears that it does work.
Having cut back the nutes last feeding (to what I found was 1350ppm), the pH remained stable and the buds lost that hint of nutrient smell. For those of you just joining the grow, the pH is something that needs checked regularly with DG, but practically never adjusted. The 3 or 4 times Ive adjusted it over 50 days now were probably when I was overfeeding due to not having a TDS meter. But anyone who has worked with hydro before can definitely appreciate the easy of not having to mess with the pH.
Here are the ladies:
GH Resin (day 50)
DG Resin (Day 49)
Today is day 49 of 60 and Im happy to report that with the encouragement of a few of you, I bought a TDS meter. While its absolutely possible to dial in a feeding schedule reading plants, its MUCH easier knowing exactly how potent some of these nutrients can be. For instance, the DG feeding schedule during the peak of flowering claims their nutes with 50ppm water brings your res to 1400ish PPM. My calculations had it up over 2000ppm. I even did some tests with GH and their recommended schedule and I was up around 2200ppm with them too. Unless there is some kind of ppm conversion I should know about, I mixed and read accurately AND took into account the base PPM of my own water. Again, more potent nutes makes them cheaper to use so Im not complaining at all, though it makes sense now that I saw burn at supposedly conservative levels. Anyways, my point is that you guys were right. If you want, Ill post the PPM contributions of the products Im using so you can dial in a schedule that works for you.
As far as the plants go, things are going well. Theyre needing tied up, the buds are rock hard and the ones that arent tied up are leaning against each other. Ive cut the grow formula out as it appears that less and less nitrogen has been needed after about week 4 and Im feeding with about 10mls of bloom, 5 of protekt and 1ml of magpro. This puts me at around 1300ppm. I still think GH has the resin advantage but Im very happy with the potential yield here with DG. Being that this is my first time working with DG, even if I come out with the same yield that I normally get with GH, thats still quite impressive as it took me a while to finally get a schedule that worked with GH. Another thing I noticed is the number of red hairs on the GH plant and the lack of them on the DG plants. Will I need to flower for 2 more weeks instead of 10 days? We will see. I do use a 'ripener' with GH and it appears that it does work.
Having cut back the nutes last feeding (to what I found was 1350ppm), the pH remained stable and the buds lost that hint of nutrient smell. For those of you just joining the grow, the pH is something that needs checked regularly with DG, but practically never adjusted. The 3 or 4 times Ive adjusted it over 50 days now were probably when I was overfeeding due to not having a TDS meter. But anyone who has worked with hydro before can definitely appreciate the easy of not having to mess with the pH.
Here are the ladies:
GH Resin (day 50)
DG Resin (Day 49)
Mazar i Shariff
Active Member
Looking good homebrewer!
I'm glad to hear you got a TDS meter. That will make things much easier in the long run, and it sounds like you've already discovered quite a bit that can now be adjusted to improve your grow and prevent future burns. I always questioned a lot of the labels out there and their mixing instructions in the past.
A while back I did make an observation that your plants seem to have darker than normal leaves. I just realized your note that you've been feeding DG Grow formula throughout bloom up until now. This has to be why your leaves are so dark, and honestly it looks like they have been given a bit too much Nitrogen because of it. Next time around, I would recommend cutting off the grow after Week 2 of bloom. I've found it's always great to have grow formulas ready to rock incase your leaves start to lose their rich green color and go light, lime green. But typically, the bloom formulas have enough N to support the plant, as after Week 2 the plant has completed most of it vertical growth & branching and greatly reduces it's N intake. If you continue to feed this too far into the bloom phase, excess N can easily cause nutrient lockout and start blocking all that much needed PK.
Anyway, keep it up and keep us updated!
Cheers
I'm glad to hear you got a TDS meter. That will make things much easier in the long run, and it sounds like you've already discovered quite a bit that can now be adjusted to improve your grow and prevent future burns. I always questioned a lot of the labels out there and their mixing instructions in the past.
A while back I did make an observation that your plants seem to have darker than normal leaves. I just realized your note that you've been feeding DG Grow formula throughout bloom up until now. This has to be why your leaves are so dark, and honestly it looks like they have been given a bit too much Nitrogen because of it. Next time around, I would recommend cutting off the grow after Week 2 of bloom. I've found it's always great to have grow formulas ready to rock incase your leaves start to lose their rich green color and go light, lime green. But typically, the bloom formulas have enough N to support the plant, as after Week 2 the plant has completed most of it vertical growth & branching and greatly reduces it's N intake. If you continue to feed this too far into the bloom phase, excess N can easily cause nutrient lockout and start blocking all that much needed PK.
Anyway, keep it up and keep us updated!
Cheers
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
The only reason I bought the grow (7-9-5) was because I was only using the Bloom (3-12-6) and that wasn't enough to keep things green. My AK47 tray off camera is another experiment where I'm going half and half until day 30. Doing so gives a 1-2-1 ratio which is far from too much nitrogen, but I know 1-4-2 isn't enough. Trial and error my man
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puffntuff
Well-Known Member
What a clown!!! That shit is epic around here. Dumpster, lemon g, darkstar!! Ohio only strains.You named it right. Dumpster... That's where I'd put it.
dadio161
Well-Known Member
your comments show that you never even read the thread . I don't see you posting anything better or more informative . Just a Troll .
You named it right. Dumpster... That's where I'd put it.
epicseeds
Active Member
Fatman said many times that DG really is not a perfect option for a recirculating hydro system, but best for a DTW system. His reasoning for this is because of the amount of ammonium nitrate (or is it the other one) that can really mess up pH when is recirculated. He did say it is entirely possible to use, which is exactly what you have proven - but will require maintenance.
I have been looking at the DG line for months, especially the Foliage Pro because of the 3-1-2 ratio. Just recently I discovered that the Botainicare CNS17 coco grow is also a 3-1-2 NPK ratio. CNS17 is also way cheaper compared to Dyna-Gro believe it or not! The only problem is CNS17 does not come loaded with all the macros that foliage pro does. But this certainly can be fixed with another product - i have not settled on which one would be best perhaps someone could help.
What's more, the CNS17 Coco Bloom comes as a 2-2-3 ratio. I feel this is an excellent ratio for bloom. The nitrogen is slightly lowered, which research shows causes best bud production. Also, the P ratio is not ridiculously high, and not higher than the N (see high P myth for info). Also the phospho is slightly raised as well, marijuana tissue samples done by AN (yea they did something useful!) shows that in bloom that not only do plants not need high P but while in bloom they use a slightly higher amount of K.
With that said, it seems like you have perfected the ratios using the dyna-gro, can you give a bit more detail on exactly how much of fluctuations if pH you have found? You stated that it requires daily checking but you dont have to add pH up or down too often?
I am extremely interested in the feeding schedule you have came up with.
@homebrewer
Yes there is one you should know about! And I suspect this may be happening. Some conversions are based on a .5 scale while others are on a .7 scale. I know very little on exactly how to convert from each other but i know one will show a lower ppm while another will be extremely high. If you were to use a .5 conversion meter and try to go off of .7 scales you will really screw up your plants. I would check your manual, and if it doesnt say do some googling. Usually certain brands stick to a certain conversion rate.
EDIT:
from notes i took on the lucas formula it seems that:
@ 0.5 1200ppm = @ 0.7 1800ppm
so according to this it seems that if dyna-gro calls for a 1400ppm they are using a 0.5 conversion and since your meter reads a 2000ppm you are using a 0.7 conversion so i would say you are spot on and i would not scale back as you will run deficient.
essentially:
@ 0.5 1400ppm = @ 0.7 2000ppm
but...from what I have read MJ usually likes to sit around the 1200ppm @.5 and 1800ppm @.7 From the looks of your pics i see very slight nute burns on the edge of the leaves. perhaps you should scale back just a tiny bit to ~1800ppm on your meter. but definitely do not go to 1400ppm.
this is what i fear is a mistake. if you are indeed using a .7 conversion meter. and if what i have said so far is correct (people please speak up if i am wrong, i am still learning) then you are underfeeding by a considerate amount. I'm sure nothing very bad would come from it since you are underfeeding and not overfeeding, but you might not be feeding the plant to its max potential.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I remember reading that and I think it was in reference to the ammoniacal nitrogen and somewhere under 15% is desirable and since DG is below that, I think he was arguing that it was intended for hydro, not soil? Myself and another on this forum are currently testing it in soil. All of our plants look fantastic thus far. But in regards to DG's pH stability, it's rock solid. My comment was more of an explanation as to why I've had to adjust it at all (just 4 times in nearly 2 months) and that was in all likelihood due to over-feeding. In contrast, I adjust the GH pH 4 times per week.
CNS grow and bloom look 'complete enough' and like you mentioned, it has a good veg ratio. I'm not crazy about the bloom ratio as I like a 1:1 N to K ratio, or at least somewhere close. 2-2-5 doesn't look good on paper, though it could be fine in practice. Their coco bloom is 2-2-3 and that would be interesting to try. As far as price, CNS looks to be half the price of DG, but the real question is; how potent is CNS? I'm finding that DG is giving me the following ppm values (1 ml/gallon):
Grow PPM 128
Bloom PPM 88
Protekt PPM 12
MagPro PPM 115
Do the math and I think you'll find that it doesn't take much to get to a recommended 1400 ppm. For instance, I'm using a half and half split of grow and bloom for my AK47 and at normal feeding levels for flowering, I can grow 6 plants for 1/3 of a gallon of DG nutes which costs me $15 in base nutes, that's pretty cheap. So to compare the cost of products side-by-side, potency should be taken into account.
The DG pH is rock solid. If you're not trying to feed your plant more than it can handle, you can throw away your pH up and down, seriously.
Having almost one DG grow under my belt (so take that for what it's worth), here is what I am feeding my AK47s off camera in mls/gallon:
Transition (1250ppm for 2-3 weeks):
Grow 3.5
Bloom 5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 1.5
Bloom (1350 ppm for 4-5 weeks):
Grow 2.5
Bloom 7.5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 1.5
Ripen (1250ppm for 1-2 week):
Grow 0
Bloom 10.5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 0
Some of the ppms may seem low, but given my 15 gallons res size, water usage/evaporation quickly condenses the ppm in a 24 hour period.
My meter is a .7 conversion I believe, maybe someone can verify if they have one (http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/oakton-ecotestr-tds-low-p-2325.html ). Regardless of the conversion, if there is such a thing, the GH feeding schedule that my plants have done well on turns out to be around 1450ppm. So using that as a max value, I've mixed DG nutes to reach that value so I can now feed accordingly.
Don't get too hung up on PPMs.
PPMs are a conversion of the EC (electrical conductivity). One (.5) is half the EC; the other (.7) is seven tenths of ECx1000. There is even a Eutech that has a .64 factor !! Add to that a CF scale that is 10 times EC. When you see 2000 EC, they really should say 2.0 EC. Therefore, in this example, the CF would be 20. Now, forget all that !!
As precisely as possible measure and mix what we'll call that our BASE. Say the 5ml Protect 1ml MagPro 10ml Bloom. Take a reading w/ your meter and write the number down. The larger the quantity of water and the more careful you are, the better. Whatever meter or whatever number that is your number. Now everything you do is based off your BASE. I even re-calibrate my meter to get back to my number. Any additions or subtraction from the BASE will give you a number relative to what you started with. Now you don't have to mess w/ a bunch of numbers that might not even apply to you. It'll take out the guess work.
Hope I was clear and hope it helps.
Carbon
PPMs are a conversion of the EC (electrical conductivity). One (.5) is half the EC; the other (.7) is seven tenths of ECx1000. There is even a Eutech that has a .64 factor !! Add to that a CF scale that is 10 times EC. When you see 2000 EC, they really should say 2.0 EC. Therefore, in this example, the CF would be 20. Now, forget all that !!
As precisely as possible measure and mix what we'll call that our BASE. Say the 5ml Protect 1ml MagPro 10ml Bloom. Take a reading w/ your meter and write the number down. The larger the quantity of water and the more careful you are, the better. Whatever meter or whatever number that is your number. Now everything you do is based off your BASE. I even re-calibrate my meter to get back to my number. Any additions or subtraction from the BASE will give you a number relative to what you started with. Now you don't have to mess w/ a bunch of numbers that might not even apply to you. It'll take out the guess work.
Hope I was clear and hope it helps.
Carbon
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Today is day 56 of 60 and I think Im going to let these girls go another full week. Normally with GH nutes, I use a product at the end called KoolBloom dry which really does seem to quicken the flower time by a few days. This has always been a 60 day strain but I think 63ish days should be good enough in this case.
You may notice a few colas missing from the group picture. I had to harvest a few early this week as this strain gets so dense and resinous that its susceptible to mold. So during a normal grow, around day 50 Ill start checking the insides of the largest colas for that grayish blue mold that can form. I saw the smallest start to mold in one cola and decided to error on the side of being safe. Ive literally lost several ounces before due to mold and Im pretty convinced that there isnt much you can do to stop it with this strain. Good airflow, a clean grow room and humidity below 50% are a few things that will normally prevent mold. But with this strain, the insides of the colas are leafy, dense and resinous and when those small leaves transpire, there is no where for that moisture to go. So that being said, I took down nearly 2 ounces in dry weight of colas and will post pics when theyre totally dry. To be safe, I threw away just a few grams of bud that had that grayish blue lint-looking mold on them as I would not smoke that myself.
As were approaching the end here, I think there is a decently obvious resin difference between the GH dumpster and the DG dumpster. I dont know if this will equate to a difference in smoke quality but Ill certainly let you guys know in the next 2 weeks. In the defense of DG, those plants are being grown with just the essential elements, whereas the GH tray is and has received in the past sea kelp and fulvic acid products. I personally believe these products to be the culprit for the resin difference. As Ive mentioned in the past, Im currently using Floralicious Plus in a res off camera with DG nutes and Ill post pics of that AK47 crop to compare it to some of the pics below. The floralicious Plus seems to have zero affect on the pH stability of the DG nutes as well. In regards to pH stability, Ive found that depending on my ratio of base nutes to Protekt, Ill sometimes need to do one initial pH adjustment at the time of my res change. The Protket has a higher pH and if youre running lighter nutes at the end of your flowering cycle, the lower pH in the base nutes cant quite balance the higher pH of the Protekt to rest the res at 5.8. Sometimes itll rest at 6.1-6.3. A few mls of pH down on the day of your res change seems to be the only adjustment needed for the entire week.
My next update will probably be when I start to harvest and I'll try to get a few pics posted before I do so. I'll certainly post some final buds shots for a final comparison along with my thoughts on DynaGro. Not sure about you guys, but trimming 1 pound takes me about 8 hours of non stop work
.
GH Resin (day 60):
DG Resin:
AK47 day 52 (GH nutes)
You may notice a few colas missing from the group picture. I had to harvest a few early this week as this strain gets so dense and resinous that its susceptible to mold. So during a normal grow, around day 50 Ill start checking the insides of the largest colas for that grayish blue mold that can form. I saw the smallest start to mold in one cola and decided to error on the side of being safe. Ive literally lost several ounces before due to mold and Im pretty convinced that there isnt much you can do to stop it with this strain. Good airflow, a clean grow room and humidity below 50% are a few things that will normally prevent mold. But with this strain, the insides of the colas are leafy, dense and resinous and when those small leaves transpire, there is no where for that moisture to go. So that being said, I took down nearly 2 ounces in dry weight of colas and will post pics when theyre totally dry. To be safe, I threw away just a few grams of bud that had that grayish blue lint-looking mold on them as I would not smoke that myself.
As were approaching the end here, I think there is a decently obvious resin difference between the GH dumpster and the DG dumpster. I dont know if this will equate to a difference in smoke quality but Ill certainly let you guys know in the next 2 weeks. In the defense of DG, those plants are being grown with just the essential elements, whereas the GH tray is and has received in the past sea kelp and fulvic acid products. I personally believe these products to be the culprit for the resin difference. As Ive mentioned in the past, Im currently using Floralicious Plus in a res off camera with DG nutes and Ill post pics of that AK47 crop to compare it to some of the pics below. The floralicious Plus seems to have zero affect on the pH stability of the DG nutes as well. In regards to pH stability, Ive found that depending on my ratio of base nutes to Protekt, Ill sometimes need to do one initial pH adjustment at the time of my res change. The Protket has a higher pH and if youre running lighter nutes at the end of your flowering cycle, the lower pH in the base nutes cant quite balance the higher pH of the Protekt to rest the res at 5.8. Sometimes itll rest at 6.1-6.3. A few mls of pH down on the day of your res change seems to be the only adjustment needed for the entire week.
My next update will probably be when I start to harvest and I'll try to get a few pics posted before I do so. I'll certainly post some final buds shots for a final comparison along with my thoughts on DynaGro. Not sure about you guys, but trimming 1 pound takes me about 8 hours of non stop work
. 
GH Resin (day 60):
DG Resin:
AK47 day 52 (GH nutes)
venacular
Well-Known Member
Aren't you using Sweet for the GH tray also? I think that may also be providing some extra sulfur related to better resin production on the GH tray? I have been using DG in my dirt plants and they love itToday is day 56 of 60 and I think I’m going to let these girls go another full week. Normally with GH nutes, I use a product at the end called KoolBloom dry which really does seem to quicken the flower time by a few days. This has always been a 60 day strain but I think 63ish days should be good enough in this case.
You may notice a few colas missing from the group picture. I had to harvest a few early this week as this strain gets so dense and resinous that it’s susceptible to mold. So during a normal grow, around day 50 I’ll start checking the insides of the largest colas for that grayish blue mold that can form. I saw the smallest start to mold in one cola and decided to error on the side of being safe. I’ve literally lost several ounces before due to mold and I’m pretty convinced that there isn’t much you can do to stop it with this strain. Good airflow, a clean grow room and humidity below 50% are a few things that will normally prevent mold. But with this strain, the insides of the colas are leafy, dense and resinous and when those small leaves transpire, there is no where for that moisture to go. So that being said, I took down nearly 2 ounces in dry weight of colas and will post pics when they’re totally dry. To be safe, I threw away just a few grams of bud that had that grayish blue lint-looking mold on them as I would not smoke that myself.
As we’re approaching the end here, I think there is a decently obvious resin difference between the GH dumpster and the DG dumpster. I don’t know if this will equate to a difference in smoke quality but I’ll certainly let you guys know in the next 2 weeks. In the defense of DG, those plants are being grown with just the essential elements, whereas the GH tray is and has received in the past sea kelp and fulvic acid products. I personally believe these products to be the culprit for the resin difference. As I’ve mentioned in the past, I’m currently using Floralicious Plus in a res off camera with DG nutes and I’ll post pics of that AK47 crop to compare it to some of the pics below. The floralicious Plus seems to have zero affect on the pH stability of the DG nutes as well. In regards to pH stability, I’ve found that depending on my ratio of base nutes to Protekt, I’ll sometimes need to do one initial pH adjustment at the time of my res change. The Protket has a higher pH and if you’re running lighter nutes at the end of your flowering cycle, the lower pH in the base nutes can’t quite balance the higher pH of the Protekt to rest the res at 5.8. Sometimes it’ll rest at 6.1-6.3. A few mls of pH down on the day of your res change seems to be the only adjustment needed for the entire week.
My next update will probably be when I start to harvest and I'll try to get a few pics posted before I do so. I'll certainly post some final buds shots for a final comparison along with my thoughts on DynaGro. Not sure about you guys, but trimming 1 pound takes me about 8 hours of non stop work
I have started using both GH Flouralicious and Sweet and have noticed an increase in resin production over not using them in just a very short amount of time. After seeing your results and mine in dirt I am confident you have found a possible replacement for that advanced and troublesome GH schedule you have now. Thanks for helping me decide on what nutes to start with and for sharing your results.MoppinSauce
Well-Known Member
HB, can you go into some details on the fogging you do? Do you use any other products to control the mites? I have doctor doom foggers but am not sure of the best way to use them, you girls look really good so late into bloom. How late do you fog? I use Azamax and they seem to be getting immune to it, that and the low humidity that rolled into town hasn't helped at all.