Earth to Bush!

medicineman

New Member
Our Meaningless 'Sacrifice' in Iraq Must Stop
By Keith Olbermann, Countdown. Posted January 5, 2007.


President Bush may not be very good at dealing with reality, but he is still gifted at letting American troops be killed, and then turning their deaths to his own political advantage!

If in your presence an individual tried to sacrifice an American serviceman or woman, would you intervene?
Would you at least protest?
What if he had already sacrificed 3,003 of them?
What if he had already sacrificed 3,003 of them -- and was then to announce his intention to sacrifice hundreds, maybe thousands, more?
This is where we stand [with] President Bush’s "new Iraq strategy," and his impending speech to the nation, which, according to a quoted senior American official, will be about troop increases and "sacrifice."
The president has delayed, dawdled and deferred for the month since the release of the Iraq Study Group.
He has seemingly heard out everybody, and listened to none of them.
If the BBC is right -- and we can only pray it is not -- he has settled on the only solution all the true experts agree cannot possibly work: more American personnel in Iraq, not as trainers for Iraqi troops, but as part of some flabby plan for "sacrifice."
Sacrifice!
More American servicemen and women will have their lives risked.
More American servicemen and women will have their lives ended.
More American families will have to bear the unbearable and rationalize the unforgivable -- "sacrifice" -- sacrifice now, sacrifice tomorrow, sacrifice forever.
And more Americans -- more even than the two-thirds who already believe we need fewer troops in Iraq, not more -- will have to conclude the president does not have any idea what he’s doing -- and that other Americans will have to die for that reason.
It must now be branded as propaganda -- for even the president cannot truly feel that very many people still believe him to be competent in this area, let alone "the decider."
But from our impeccable reporter at the Pentagon, Jim Miklaszewski, tonight comes confirmation of something called "surge and accelerate" -- as many as 20,000 additional troops -- for "political purposes" ...
This, in line with what we had previously heard, that this will be proclaimed a short-term measure, for the stated purpose of increasing security in and around Baghdad, and giving an Iraqi government a chance to establish some kind of order.
This is palpable nonsense, Mr. Bush.
If this is your intention -- if the centerpiece of your announcement next week will be "sacrifice" -- sacrifice your intention, not more American lives!
As Sen. Joseph Biden has pointed out, the new troops might improve the ratio our forces face relative to those living in Baghdad (friend and foe), from 200 to 1, to just 100 to 1.
"Sacrifice?"
No.
A drop in the bucket.
The additional men and women you have sentenced to go there, sir, will serve only as targets.
They will not be there "short-term," Mr. Bush; for many it will mean a year or more in death’s shadow.
This is not temporary, Mr. Bush.
For the Americans who will die because of you, it will be as permanent as it gets.
The various rationales for what Mr. Bush will reportedly re-christen "sacrifice" constitute a very thin gruel, indeed.
The former labor secretary, Robert Reich, says Sen. John McCain told him that the "surge" would help the "morale" of the troops already in Iraq.
If Mr. McCain truly said that, and truly believes it, he has either forgotten completely his own experience in Vietnam ... or he is unaware of the recent Military Times poll indicating only 38 percent of our active military want to see more troops sent ... or Mr. McCain has departed from reality.
Then there is the argument that to take any steps toward reducing troop numbers would show weakness to the enemy in Iraq, or to the terrorists around the world.
This simplistic logic ignores the inescapable fact that we have indeed already showed weakness to the enemy, and to the terrorists.
We have shown them that we will let our own people be killed for no good reason.
We have now shown them that we will continue to do so.
We have shown them our stupidity.
Mr. Bush, your judgment about Iraq -- and now about "sacrifice" -- is at variance with your people’s, to the point of delusion.
Your most respected generals see no value in a "surge" -- they could not possibly see it in this madness of "sacrifice."
The Iraq Study Group told you it would be a mistake.
Perhaps dozens more have told you it would be a mistake.
And you threw their wisdom back, until you finally heard what you wanted to hear, like some child drawing straws and then saying "best two out of three ... best three out of five ... hundredth one counts."
Your citizens, the people for whom you work, have told you they do not want this, and moreover, they do not want you to do this.
Yet once again, sir, you have ignored all of us.
Mr. Bush, you do not own this country!
To those Republicans who have not broken free from the slavery of partisanship -- those bonded still, to this president and this administration, and now bonded to this "sacrifice" -- proceed at your own peril.
John McCain may still hear the applause of small crowds -- he has somehow inured himself to the hypocrisy, and the tragedy, of a man who considers himself the ultimate realist, courting the votes of those who support the government telling visitors to the Grand Canyon that it was caused by the Great Flood.
That Mr. McCain is selling himself off to the irrational right, parcel by parcel, like some great landowner facing bankruptcy, seems to be obvious to everybody but himself.
Or, maybe it is obvious to him and he simply no longer cares.
But to the rest of you in the Republican Party:
We need you to speak up, right now, in defense of your country’s most precious assets -- the lives of its citizens who are in harm's way.
If you do not, you are not serving this nation’s interests -- nor your own.
November should have told you this.
The opening of the new Congress on Wednesday and Thursday should tell you this.
Next time, those missing Republicans will be you.
And to the Democrats now yoked to the helm of this sinking ship, you proceed at your own peril, as well.
President Bush may not be very good at reality, but he and Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rove are still gifted at letting American troops be killed, and then turning their deaths to their own political advantage.
The equation is simple. This country does not want more troops in Iraq.
It wants fewer.
Go and make it happen, or go and look for other work.
Yet you Democrats must assume that even if you take the most obvious of courses, and cut off funding for the war, Mr. Bush will ignore you as long as possible, or will find the money elsewhere, or will spend the money meant to protect the troops, and re-purpose it to keep as many troops there as long as he can keep them there.
Because that’s what this is all about, is it not, Mr. Bush?
That is what this "sacrifice" has been for.
To continue this senseless, endless war.
You have dressed it up in the clothing, first of a hunt for weapons of mass destruction, then of liberation ... then of regional imperative ... then of oil prices ... and now in these new terms of "sacrifice" -- it’s like a damned game of Colorforms, isn’t it, sir?
This senseless, endless war.
But -- it has not been senseless in two ways.
It has succeeded, Mr. Bush, in enabling you to deaden the collective mind of this country to the pointlessness of endless war, against the wrong people, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
It has gotten many of us used to the idea -- the virtual "white noise" -- of conflict far away, of the deaths of young Americans, of vague "sacrifice" for some fluid cause, too complicated to be interpreted except in terms of the very important-sounding but ultimately meaningless phrase "the war on terror."
 

ViRedd

New Member
The obvious solution, in case you missed it, was to get the fuck out of Iraq Now!
I see ... so YOUR solution would be to pull out of Iraq entirely and immediately? Can you see any negative ramifications in doing this? How would Iran react to this? How would Syria react? Have you really thought your answer out?

Oh, and by the way, I didn't see Olbermann make the suggestion to get out immediately. I must have missed it. Please point it out. Thanks ...


Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
I see ... so YOUR solution would be to pull out of Iraq entirely and immediately? Can you see any negative ramifications in doing this? How would Iran react to this? How would Syria react? Have you really thought your answer out?

Oh, and by the way, I didn't see Olbermann make the suggestion to get out immediately. I must have missed it. Please point it out. Thanks ...


Vi
You've got to get better glasses. Syria and Iran would be elated to see the kiulling fields shut down. Do you have such a warped sense of self righteousness that you think that only Americans don't like their sons and daughters dying in a combat zone? I'm sure that all Muslims would be glad to see us leave except the most radical ones, they came to Iraq just to kill Americans. Yeah there are a few thousand Bad muslims, and there are a few thousand bad Americans, like the ones running the country. Outside of the illegals, have we been invaded lately? NO!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Outside of the illegals, have we been invaded lately? NO!


So then we agree that some of Bush's policies are working? :blsmoke:

Vi
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Please Vi knock off the bait and switch.... None of Bush's policies have worked, his administration is a dismal failure.
 

medicineman

New Member
So then we agree that some of Bush's policies are working? :blsmoke:
Not a chance. The only thing that will work for Bush is his exit policy in two years!
 

medicineman

New Member
But you are enjoying the fact that we haven't been attacked since 9-11, no?

Vi
Of course I like the fact we've not been attacked. I certainly won't congratulate Bush and his cohorts for this. The "enemy" is just waiting for the right opportunity. While we're worrying about transportation, Planes, Trains, Busses, 18 wheelers etc. the "enemy" being one step ahead is planning something entirely different. What is unknown, but will surface sooner or later and Bush will have no defense. He refuses to take the port security seriously and the nuclear and chemical facilities are unprotected, our Borders are wide open, and no-one is minding the store! There is one Hiway patrolman on duty 12 hours a day to mind 120 miles of remote oregon coast, that is what I call un-protected!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Hmmm ... interesting post, Med. Do you suppose the terrorists are holding back from attacking us on our soil waiting for Americans to become complacent again? After all ... Americans have a very short memory span, and only really become aware and defensive after being attacked. What happened to all the flags waving from the antenneas of cars in this country? The worse may be yet to come.

Vi
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Olbermann is simply wrong; seem to me he has no desire to win! Most of the Dems seem not to want to achieve victory. Lame!
The war on terror is one of the few areas in which I support Bushco, so I'm hoping that more a more basic military strategy will be effective.


[FONT=Garamond, Times]Unity of Effort'[/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond, Times]The Petraeus command is the overdue beginning of the counterinsurgency.[/FONT]
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BY DANIEL HENNINGER
Friday, January 12, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Times]Immediately after the president's speech, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said, "I heard nothing new." Nothing? When Gen. David Petraeus takes command of U.S. forces in Iraq, it will mark the start of an historic turn in military strategy in Iraq and perhaps in U.S. war-fighting doctrine. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]The U.S.'s primary problem in Iraq, manifest across 2006, has been an urban insurgency in a 30-mile radius around Baghdad and in Anbar province. The Petraeus command is the overdue beginning of the counterinsurgency. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]This isn't a one-off effort as at Fallujah, but counterinsurgency as daily U.S. military policy. It is the product of an enormous amount of self-criticism and analysis done by military and civilian analysts in and out of government. It does not mean, as often suggested the past 24 hours, that 20,000 U.S. troops are now going to run out and look for gun battles with insurgents in back alleys. [/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana, Times]In broadest outline, the plan divides Baghdad into nine districts, essentially neighborhoods. The job of providing daily security in each district will be undertaken by an Iraqi army brigade of several thousand soldiers, a U.S. support battalion of up to 1,000 troops, and most importantly, about 20 U.S. military "embeds" or advisers. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Times]Some of us predicted late last year that advisory embeds would be part of the new Bush strategy on reading National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley's November memo of advice to the president in the New York Times. After a late November trip to Iraq, Mr. Hadley said four times in the memo that the U.S. should embed coalition forces with Iraq's army and dysfunctional police. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]The source of this idea, in part, was a successful Marine experiment in Anbar province. Rather than attach just a single U.S. military adviser to an Iraqi commander at the division level, the Marines put advisers alongside Iraqi units down to the NCO level. They stayed with and fought with their Iraqi counterparts 24/7. And the Marines reported that the Iraqis fought with more confidence and effect, a k a spine-stiffening. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]
In 2004, a similar but broader effort at integration between U.S. and Iraqi forces was planned in Anbar province by Marine Maj. Gen. James Mattis. The Mattis plan is summarized in the middle of the Army's new Counterinsurgency Manual, released just last month. The manual's drafting was overseen by Gen. David Petraeus, who will now direct the U.S. military effort in the neighborhoods of Baghdad. It's not a coincidence. The manual describes in detail the purpose, theory, tactics and problems (including spikes in violence and casualties) likely to emerge during the new counterinsurgency strategy.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]At the end of the manual there is a bibliography of books, studies and articles on fighting insurgency. It includes classics, such as Alistair Horne's "A Savage War of Peace," but what's interesting is how many of them were published since 2003, amid the Iraq war. Out of this effort has emerged a "best practices" for the U.S. when fighting an insurgency, as now.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]Whether the U.S. should have done this back when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his foreign suicide bombers emerged is a legitimate question. The point is this: The Iraq violence has not been running like an untended open hydrant. Some of our best and brightest have been thinking hard about how to shut the valve. Last month AEI released a plan reflecting similar counterinsurgency ideas by military specialist Fred Kagan and the Army's former vice chief of staff, Gen. Jack Keane. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]In November, the Bush administration joined the rethinking. The participants in that process looked at the whole range of criticisms and formal critiques of what the U.S. had been doing in Iraq to that point. They concluded the one thing that wouldn't change is the goal, mainly establishing a democratic government in Iraq. What would change, heretofore a nonsubject, were the strategic concept and the level of resources. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]Some of this came out of Gen. Petraeus's Counterinsurgency Manual, some from U.S. commanders in the field and some from the military think tanks. Suggestions that had gotten a "no" before, now got a "yes." [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]Is it all a day late and a dollar short? Maybe. Some 20,000 more troops may be insufficient. The inevitable front-page casualty reports and blood-soaked photos may still drain the will of domestic pundits. But what we are seeing in the Petraeus command is the kind of step back that the military sometimes excels at. This the U.S. military at its potential best--remaking itself, as it did with the transition to training a volunteer army after Vietnam. [/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana, Times]It is not the least bit obvious that this counterinsurgency plan will fail, and only the most churlishly neurotic Bush hater would want it to. The stakes for the region and the war on terror have been described many times. There is another reason: How this ends will have an important effect on the morale of our officer corps, the people who must summon the gumption to protect us. They deserve a final chance to succeed. This is the chance. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Times]An idea one finds in the counterinsurgency literature, crucial to the success of any such strategy, is known as "unity of effort." Basically, it means all oars pulling in the same direction. The Iraqi government, for instance, has told the U.S. it will stop interfering in the military's rules of engagement. Tuesday's victorious 10-hour battle on Baghdad's Haifa Street, by a combined U.S.-Iraqi force, looked like a successful test of unified effort. It remains to discover whether anything resembling unity of effort can be achieved along Constitution Avenue. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]Nothing would more raise the tenor of this debate than if some member of the Democratic Party would take ownership of the subject of military doctrine in Iraq. On the evidence of their statements the past 24 hours, barely a Democrat exists with a clue of what Gen. Petraeus is about to do or why. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]Sen. Barack Obama, presidential second-runner, said, "We are not going to babysit a civil war." Democrats will get a chance soon at Senate confirmation hearings to question Gen. Petraeus. Babysitter is not the word he brings to mind. His appointment is the result of a ferment in American military thinking on Iraq that goes well past George Bush "alone." They should hear him out before deciding whether to support this effort, or remain in the opposition.[/FONT]
OpinionJournal - Wonder Land
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medicineman

New Member
Hmmm ... interesting post, Med. Do you suppose the terrorists are holding back from attacking us on our soil waiting for Americans to become complacent again? After all ... Americans have a very short memory span, and only really become aware and defensive after being attacked. What happened to all the flags waving from the antenneas of cars in this country? The worse may be yet to come.

Vi
I'll agree with that, no matter who's in charge, This Gov't has done so much damage to our credibility around the globe,that an attack is pretty much immenent. Vegas is High on the list as we are the absolute evil to extreme Muslims, remember Nellis AFB and the 1,000s of nukes stored there, goodby southwest, eh!
 

medicineman

New Member
My friend Wavels:They deserve a final chance to succeed. This is the chance. [FONT=Verdana, Times]An idea one finds in the counterinsurgency literature, crucial to the success of any such strategy, is known as "unity of effort." Basically, it means all oars pulling in the same direction. The Iraqi government, for instance, has told the U.S. it will stop interfering in the military's rules of engagement. Tuesday's victorious 10-hour battle on Baghdad's Haifa Street, by a combined U.S.-Iraqi force, looked like a successful test of unified effort. It remains to discover whether anything resembling unity of effort can be achieved along Constitution Avenue. If this 21,000 troops succeeds in doing what 140,000 troops have failed in doing, you will have my sincere apologies for ever doubting the genius of the Bush war plan ~LOL~. I find no humor in sending another 21,000 young men and women into harms way to protect a shiite majority so Iran can run things from afar![/FONT]
 

ViRedd

New Member
If I heard Bush correctly in his State of The Union address, there will be no more war in Iraq based upon politics. Insurgents hiding in mosques will no longer be safe.

Iran is in for a big suprise too ... The Saudis are reducing the price of oil like crazy. The price has been lowered by 20% over the past few months and we are starting to see the results at the pump now. According to some reports I've read, the price of oil will eventually come down into the 20 dollar a barrel range. What does this cheaper oil mean for Iran? Well, lower it enough and Iran's economy will collapse. When the economy collapses, the people, expecially the young people, will over-throw the existing leadership. Once the existing leadership is put down in Iran, then those in Iran who support a democratic government can take over. There is a huge democracy movement in Iran among the young people who want to be westernized.

Dick Cheney met with the Saudi Emirs months ago to negotiate the lower oil prices for the sole reason of putting the Iranian economy at risk. The Saudis agreed because they recognize that in the long run, Iran presents a serious threat to them as well as us.

Vi
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Med, the central point of this NEW plan is simply the fact that it is a NEW plan.
I hope it works. Time will tell.
Vi's point regarding oil prices mitigates the insurgency, and will increase the chance for victory.
We'll see.
 

norton

Active Member
Yes I believe you are totally right redd they have us with our pants down!And you can bet it will be water or air(gas buddy)AND does anyone know whatever happened to those soviet suitcase bombs that went missing 20 odd years ago?Yes thats right I believe it was 16 of 24 were missingThat was ther infromation and no I don't have it anymore (as it was common knowledge then)!What makes you think it will come your way anyway they want to get em where it hurts so why not fuck with swomething else other than oil?
 

medicineman

New Member
Dick Cheney met with the Saudi Emirs months ago to negotiate the lower oil prices for the sole reason of putting the Iranian economy at risk. The Saudis agreed because they recognize that in the long run, Iran presents a serious threat to them as well as us.

Vi, does that mean Cheney has been holding us hostage with high oil prices for the last 6 fucking years, hell yes it does. If a word from the Dick can bring oil down to 20 bucks a barrel, what the fuck has he been waiting on? I think this belongs in the Fantasy column. If I see gas at $1.01 a gallon, you'll have my happy and sincere apology, but I'll still hold the Bush administration liable for all these years of outrageous prices.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Dick Cheney met with the Saudi Emirs months ago to negotiate the lower oil prices for the sole reason of putting the Iranian economy at risk. The Saudis agreed because they recognize that in the long run, Iran presents a serious threat to them as well as us.

Vi, does that mean Cheney has been holding us hostage with high oil prices for the last 6 fucking years, hell yes it does. If a word from the Dick can bring oil down to 20 bucks a barrel, what the fuck has he been waiting on? I think this belongs in the Fantasy column. If I see gas at $1.01 a gallon, you'll have my happy and sincere apology, but I'll still hold the Bush administration liable for all these years of outrageous prices.
Med ...

Don't wait for gas at $1.01 a gallon. Apologize when the Iranian government falls ... and then thank Cheney and Bush as well. As the Iranian government fails, so fail the dictators throughout the Middle East.

Vi
 
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