Ed Rosenthal Say's CFL's May be Better than HPS for Micro Growing

aye fcking wonderful post man!! this is what ive been looking for good information on this subject.. keep this thread going im just hiding in the shadows reading now!

%MiSTuRBoMbDiGgItty% said:

I grow High Density Sea of Green now
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Last post I swear.

Okay, see there it is then! You wouldn't grow 8 full blown vegged out indicas in there. Theres a certain WAY to gain the most of your light with that style grow as well.

See theres ANOTHER point in growing, and talking CFL vs HPS that a NOOB would have to find out talkin about a SOG grow.

I dunno I know CFL's are great. But maybe I dont see what we should be talking about. What are we comparing it to? Too many variables, and differences to me, and you, and our wallet and desires of what we are trying to achieve =

Ultimate Buds on a budget?

Or Balls out Buddzz?

haha, but really, it should be know for micro you wouldnt stick a 400 in there, youd go cfl, or else its not MICRO anymore in my eyes.

Case in point also. Research. Google. I had to friggin go to YouTube to friggin find out how to use my damn cellphone for chrissakes, doesnt even come with a manual these days, if it did, it would be 1000 pages! Google is awesome, youtube is awesome. But what are we coming to. lol rant over sorry. didnt mean to.

So explain to me how having 13,500 lumens (210w of CFL)thats 5 42w in 2.4 sq ft is better than 21,600 (336w of CFL) 8 42w in 2.4 sq ft ??? Cuz the big complaint from most HID guys is the light penitration, so I think the more lumens the brighter right? Maybe not, I agree that yea there is a certain point where you aren't going to get you cab any brighter but I DO NOT think that it's 200w unless your cab is 1 sq ft or less... Come one somebody has to agree with me on this

This is better than Mac VS PC.

Hahahaha!

Damn skippy!!! Fuck a Mac too! Im a PC guy all the way... I bet I get shit for that too oh and Sonar is better than Pro Tools hahaha ok I'm done for now

Great thread %MiSTuRBo

I posted on this subject last night on here. I use an envirolite and noted something on their website recently:

* We are currently waiting for the independent results of a technical research program carried out by Sheffield University on comparisons (lumen, PAR, spectrum output, heat generation, operating costs etc) with HID / HPS lamps. The same research will monitor grow results using both types of lamps. We are extremely confident that the results of this research will surprise many growers and confirm that Envirolite / CFL lamps which provide high-output lumens with 100% PAR will become the next generation of light systems for all growers.

It sounds like preliminary results are in favour of cfl's to me and I doubt the testers will be using scrog in pc cases

Another interesting fact is that many local councils are replacing their HPS street lighting systems. Originally they were just looking to save money but studies have found that face recognition under 45w cfl lighting is much improved over the current 75w hps systems and this is seen as a huge positive in terms of cctv and crime detection.
Maybe it's a positive in plant growth too

It's no secret that CFL quality of light, measured as CRI, decimates HPS. And annihilates LPS!

%MiSTuRBoMbDiGgItty% said:

So explain to me how having 13,500 lumens (210w of CFL)thats 5 42w in 2.4 sq ft is better than 21,600 (336w of CFL) 8 42w in 2.4 sq ft ??? Cuz the big complaint from most HID guys is the light penitration, so I think the more lumens the brighter right? Maybe not, I agree that yea there is a certain point where you aren't going to get you cab any brighter but I DO NOT think that it's 200w unless your cab is 1 sq ft or less... Come one somebody has to agree with me on this

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Well, I think you almost doubled your lights for 7,000 lume gain, youre almost on the verge of pushing 400 watts at 40,000+ lumes with an HPS.

2 more 42's on top of 8 will get you 10 bulbs (holy shit man 10 42's) @ 27000 lumes, and it will also get you around 400 watts.

A 400w hps is lets say minimum, 45,000 lumes.

So we are getting to the point of diminishing returns I guess not at 200 but 400 watts now, I was half correct, almost doesnt cut it though haha.
10 discount easily attainable 42watt at lowes or home depot or menards will be around 100.00 dollars.

Youre past the point of drowning out, (stacking ill call it) the light in my opinion. Youre doing it because of your grow, and your benefits and negatives in my belief.

You can overclock your CPU in that PC to only go so fast, till when you have to upgrade.......

You have to overclock your lights to the same effect, and its having the same effect, youll only go so fast. To where we have negatives that are blooming because of the situation. Lumens. Its just not gaining.

But I bet im spewing ALOT of hot air, and running in circles probly why Im not a rocket scientist or a doctor, and my dad always told me that I was a talker, I talk alot of shit but dont come thru in the end with my point, maybe Im beating around the bush, and Im not considering the other AREAS such as PAR, SPECTRUM, WATTS, PENETRATION and all Im using in my arguement is LUMES, Hell, I dont even know what the hell a Lume is, just a number to me. but Ill never argue the fact that in MICRO, or about any small grow environment, the CFL is a great, wonderful, extremely useful, perfect tool to utilize in your toolshed.

what they are saying tho, is that those 27000 L are used to their full potential, where as the HPS light is wasted... in theory....

I beg to differ snowman

It seems that plants eat light at exactly 2700K and 6500K. HPS put out plenty at that range but are predominantly a 2100K light. So cfl's are putting out 100% food and HPS is not.
To use your analogy of cpu's, this is the pentium 5. For me, putting 1000 watts on a plant is overclocking. I simply think icfl is in beta and has a little more development to do before full release.

Oddly enough I also agree that HPS is still the boy for big croppers at the moment because of the sheer penetration but that will be overcome. The trouble is that because the plant likes the 100% 2700k light so much it doesn't let any through to the other leaves! Again this is proven by the face recognition thing. As long as there isn't a plant in the way cfl light goes a long way. That's why stuff like mylar and good reflectors are important.

HPS is yesterdays news and if you want some just go to your local council. They have plenty they want to sell you.

Ok ok I see what you guys are saying now also, that the 2700k spectrum of lume from CFL, probly 6500k too then, is a more, usable spectrum that has more benefits than a HPS, maybe whatever bulb you use in that HPS, cause I see alot of talk about 2100k with HPS, oh oka okay. Im ugly, I had no ground, like other said lets just see the bud and quit arguing, once again, I am corrected but I do think there is a wall to where you want bigger and badder, but I guess there will ALWAYS be better, faster, harder, its just the toys you choose in the situation you have.


Sorry. Im just not adding up all the things together and I blurted out lume, and you guys are sayin, "sure a light has a lume, but how much of it is used by the plant?"

I stand very corrected by you guys and I will definately agree with you 100 percent, CFL has a more usable spectrum that the plant can absorb but,

if you cool a HPS bulb to a certain degree, can you get it as close proximity to the plant for absorpsion at a better spectrum from a wisely chosen HPS bulb? whether it be a veg bulb spectrum or a flower spectrum?

Damit, when I think I might know somethin in this game I really dont.....I hate you guys haha......

keep it going!!!

Woohoo

The sun rocks, everything else sucks.





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i use 9 CFL's, a mixture of 2700k's and 6500k's. i have a small box in my closet...about 3ft tall, 2ft wide and long with 3 plants and its going good.

i love CFL's, but eh what do i know...this is my 1st grow, ill leave it to u experienced guys

It seems that eventually people begin to understand what is actually happening here. Think of Mercury Vapor lights...they might have a lot of lumens/watts...but horrible spectrum...and so the plant doesn't use that light efficiently. HPS spectrum is close enough to be useful; where it lacks in spectrum it makes up for in intensity. It is not perfect, but good enough especially in the red spectrum. Many people have argued (including Knna) that the reason why CFL bud might be more potent is due to the fact that CFL is providing the plant with a fuller spectrum...closer to what it gets in nature. That should not sound strange as many growers know that a combination of MH and HPS or HPS and 6500K CFL does quite well.

Unlike some believe, plants use more than just 2700k and 6500k which is why LED growers are having problems. You need a more balanced spectrum. There has not been enough scientific research on Cannabis specifically to know exactly what spectrum it reacts best to. Right now, it is speculation and using approximations that work for similar plants...ie tomatos...possibly hops...etc

What do we know? Well, many growers are doing quite well with CFL. The disbelief really should have ended when Garden Knowm wrote a book on it...producing 8oz of bud from 8 42 watt CFLs. No Scrog...No micro SOG...and Miracle Grow soil of all things. Those threads get lost/buried or no one bothers to read...and thus the cycle of the uninformed repeats itself.

I do applaud %MiSTuRBoMbDiGgItty% for posting this. It's not a dead horse to be beaten when there are still new growers joining and even old ones alike who remain unconvinced for whatever reason.

OregonMeds said:

Woohoo

The sun rocks, everything else sucks.

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Awesome

awesome thread. Just read through it all. Gotta admit last couple of weeks ive been looking into getting a hps but thinking maybe not cos of the space ive got.

After reading all of this i think i'll just get a few more cfl's in there!

HID vs CFLs

i just watched that man smash the horse for about 2 minutes solid. felt a bit sorry for it in the end!

heres my first grow, about the same size as the cabinet mentioned in the original article on page one.
its 1.4x1.4x2.1height.
running two 23w and two 42w cfls.
not bad, its doing the job
still flowering though, it is currently week 7.