OscarLaGrouch
Well-Known Member
you may be right. what you say makes sense. I'm still gonna do the experiment. if you don't like my thread you don't have to read it.
Effect of Defoliation on Yield - Skywalker OG indoor scrog
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OscarLaGrouch
Well-Known Member
its not even about light. its about whether or not yanking leaves off helps or hurts.
miccyj
Well-Known Member
I hate to disagree with uncle Ben, and I by no means know as much about the plant we all love so much, but I've been yanking leaves in flower for the better part of a year now and I've seen the results first hand, my bottom and mid growth is much more dense, and my tops don't seem to suffer for it at all.
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
m3d1c1n3man
Well-Known Member
there is no doubt that removing upper leaves will result in bigger lower buds, but my theory is that it will also result in smaller top kolas, which is the number one importance imo.
miccyj
Well-Known Member
I think that if this is true, the size difference of the top colas is negligible, and offset by the increase of total weight of the entire harvest, and for a commercial grower like me, that is more important than slightly larger colas. I may feel differently if I only grew for personal use. But again, I'm not convinced that it does hurt the top colas at all. I'm starting a new room in a couple of weeks with 24 WWxBB and 24 greenhouse seeds the doctor, I think that I will leave a couple of each unplugged and see how they do.
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
God I have to repeat this over and over... MARIJUANA IS NOT LIKE A WATERMELLON or A PUMPKIN....
They are not VINES, if you chop some material off, they do not grow, "bigger" because you did....
The site will only grow as big as the genetic will allow that site to grow. If you chop the top Kola, you just made 2 smaller kola's, that were able to get unblocked light. Cut those 2 kolas and you get 4 kolas that are about half the size as the 2 mains, and a 1/4 the size of what the original kola would have been.
Take 2 clones, cut one in half, leave the other alone... See what happens.
They are not VINES, if you chop some material off, they do not grow, "bigger" because you did....
The site will only grow as big as the genetic will allow that site to grow. If you chop the top Kola, you just made 2 smaller kola's, that were able to get unblocked light. Cut those 2 kolas and you get 4 kolas that are about half the size as the 2 mains, and a 1/4 the size of what the original kola would have been.
Take 2 clones, cut one in half, leave the other alone... See what happens.
miccyj
Well-Known Member
I'm not arguing this point, it maybe true, but only if you are able to make the plant produce 100% of its potential, but how often do you get the absolute maximum size from every bud? If you do, you are a far greater Gardner than me.
My point is that for me, defoliating has proven to give an increase in over all yield, which indicates that without defoliation, I'm not getting the most out of my plant, and for the last two years, my goal has been maximum quantity without sacrificing quality, and I've found this to be one of the most consistent and low maintenance ways of doing that.
Let me be clear, I never remove any node or potential bud from my plants, I remove all large fan leaves starting at the top and working my way down in order to allow greater light penetration into the canopy and allowing for my mid and bottom buds to fully develop into good size nugz, as opposed to light airy garbage.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Jeez even when trying to find out for yourself you get slammed!! I'm sure we can all agree this is not a definitive test to seek the truth lol. Its a fucking guy wanting to see for himself what the outcome will be, wow! If indeed the pruned/ defoliated plant does better is that a reason to start plucking leaves off of all your plants? I think not. Why can't you guys just sit back and watch lol. This reminds me of the big rock I have (had) in my yard. My dad would say that it cant be moved due to its massive size under the ground (been there for years lol) i finally dug it up to see and it went down 4", tied it to my truck and pulled it out! Kinda miss the rock 
.
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neo12345
Well-Known Member
Damn, I just bought a couple of ounces of Honeydew Kush!!
So are you saying that topping for 2,4 or 6 cola's is a complete waste of time, as the increase in cola's results in smaller cola's in terms of yield?
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
No need to take this personally.
Being that this is about the 50th (lame) defoliation thread at this made-for-noobies-with-theories-who-have-no-common-sense website, it just gets boring. Most of you guys wouldn't understand the function of a leaf if it bit you on the ass.
Read my red sig line and have fun with your yanking activities.
Uncle Ben
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
No.. the yield will be the same, and might be a little better, because all of the little kola's were able to get the same light, that they would not get, if you had the light over a 2 foot tall kola....
So all those side buds are further away from the light and unable to reach the full potential they could if they were closer to the light.
However. Then you end up with 5 lbs of tiny little one hit buds, and it's REALLY hard to harvest and trim, leaving you with 5 lbs of mediocre little buds that have been man handled repeatedly and harshly... Instead of one big 4 lb PRIMO kola.
Get it?
So all those side buds are further away from the light and unable to reach the full potential they could if they were closer to the light.
However. Then you end up with 5 lbs of tiny little one hit buds, and it's REALLY hard to harvest and trim, leaving you with 5 lbs of mediocre little buds that have been man handled repeatedly and harshly... Instead of one big 4 lb PRIMO kola.
Get it?
Hydroburn
Well-Known Member
This thread should really be constrained to discussions of indoor only, since outdoor/indoor scenarios are so different.
One thing is for sure, if you just let marijuana grow "wild" in your closet, you are not yielding 100% of the genetic potential. It's really very simple and pretty much any indoor grower will agree... removing old big fan leafs that shade bud sites absolutely makes the shaded nugs bigger. People assume fan leaves are 100% efficient at photosynthesis through the entire life span, but we shouldn't assume this.
Think about it... which is better: a 4" sq. fan leaf exposed to 3,600 lumens and photosynthesizing at 65% of it's maximum potential, OR, 4" sq. of fan and sugar leaf and bud material receiving 3,350 lumens a little lower down photosynthesizing at 95% max potential? In real life, who the fuck knows?
All we can do is say those nugs got noticeably fatter when I removed shade leafs, or I removed leafs and now my yield sucks. Pretty simple to see for yourself; don't be scared to try.
One thing is for sure, if you just let marijuana grow "wild" in your closet, you are not yielding 100% of the genetic potential. It's really very simple and pretty much any indoor grower will agree... removing old big fan leafs that shade bud sites absolutely makes the shaded nugs bigger. People assume fan leaves are 100% efficient at photosynthesis through the entire life span, but we shouldn't assume this.
Think about it... which is better: a 4" sq. fan leaf exposed to 3,600 lumens and photosynthesizing at 65% of it's maximum potential, OR, 4" sq. of fan and sugar leaf and bud material receiving 3,350 lumens a little lower down photosynthesizing at 95% max potential? In real life, who the fuck knows?
All we can do is say those nugs got noticeably fatter when I removed shade leafs, or I removed leafs and now my yield sucks. Pretty simple to see for yourself; don't be scared to try.
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
It's just a matter of preferences and how much you want to fuck with the plant.
Now, there is another method.... take out all the branches that are not related to that top kola, just remove them all... and then stick more plants in.. that will grow those same types of kolas, You should be able to put 1 foot long, 1 kola plants pretty tightly packed into a single space.
Now, there is another method.... take out all the branches that are not related to that top kola, just remove them all... and then stick more plants in.. that will grow those same types of kolas, You should be able to put 1 foot long, 1 kola plants pretty tightly packed into a single space.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
And when you thin fruit (not leaves) the remaining fruit is always bigger with better marketing appeal, taste and texture. The ratio of leaves (manufacturing plant units) to flowers/fruit/seed is the issue. Same principle, but we're talking leaves here, not seed producing units.
Only in cannabis forums such as RIU will folks (always noobies with little to no education or experience) get the basic botanical concepts bass ackwards when it comes to flower/fruit/seed production.
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
Wrong... Bud materials do not provide energy for growth, that's what the leaf does.
Leaves take sun energy, CO2 and nutes, converts them to sugars and cells... Remove the leaf, and you remove the primary transpiration tool that the plant uses as building blocks for flower production.
Hydroburn
Well-Known Member
Maybe we don't want to grow where any fool with a $200 quadcopter and camera can see your shit.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
No they're not, as explained in previous threads. You obviously have never grown cannabis outdoors. I've grown a lot, both indoors and out and am an outdoors grower exclusively now. In spite of canopy penetration sunrise to sunset, the lower budsites will always be popcorn style. Again, light is not the issue. Chronological age, development and hormonal processes aka apical dominance is. No matter what the plant material is...tree, vine...annual like cannabis, the newer growth will always receive the goodies before the older plant material.
Example - how many threads have you seen around here that complain that the lower leaves are yellow and finally die off? It's because most do not provide enough N, they have their NPK ratios all fucked up (because they haven't learned to stay away from the vendor's low N foods hype). So, what does the plant do? It pulls N from the lower leaves and sends it upstairs. Upper leaves stay green, lower leaves die.
UB
Hydroburn
Well-Known Member
You read what I wrote all wrong.
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