Experience needed

260w Apollo type LEDs
4x2 grow cab
100% Perlite hempy
Temps 72-80
Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur A&B
Advanced Nutrients Sensi A&B
Tap Water: 0.22ppm


1.Why is ~200ppms of nutes burning my plants?
2.Is molasses advisable in my hempy bucket?
3.anybody with feeding schedule/advice for 100% perlite using AN?
4.Buds lose some smell a bit in late flowering? Is this normal?

6 Leaf General said:

260w Apollo type LEDs
4x2 grow cab
100% Perlite hempy
Temps 72-80
Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur A&B
Advanced Nutrients Sensi A&B
Tap Water: 0.22ppm


1.Why is ~200ppms of nutes burning my plants?
2.Is molasses advisable in my hempy bucket?
3.anybody with feeding schedule/advice for 100% perlite using AN?
4.Buds lose some smell a bit in late flowering? Is this normal?

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You say your tap water is .22 ppm? And you are burning your plants with 200ppm?

It sounds like you either are reading your ppm device wrong or your ppm device is not working properly..

How many ml's per gal/liter of what are you using to get 200ppm? That might clear things up..

Also, what is it that you are seeing that makes you say the plants are being burnt? Explain what they are doing. Or, show pics..

All of these questions above will be helpful in giving you good answers to your questions.. You gotta give more info to get good answers in the online world.

I do not use Molasses, but, my understanding is that it is used to feed beneficial bacteria in your media.

So, I would say the question is... is 100% perlite a hospitable medium to bene bacterias? If so, then molasses might be advantageous to you..

As to your buds losing smell.. it is possible that you have just grown used to the smell.

After I grew one really stinky plant for 6 mos or so straight I could not even smell the plants anymore.. Stinky Bubba OG (DrGT), everyone else said it wreaked, i couldn't smell a damn thing.

Also, some genetics do this.. it could just be the variety you are growing.

TexasHank said:

As to your buds losing smell.. it is possible that you have just grown used to the smell.

After I grew one really stinky plant for 6 mos or so straight I could not even smell the plants anymore.. Stinky Bubba OG (DrGT), everyone else said it wreaked, i couldn't smell a damn thing.

Also, some genetics do this.. it could just be the variety you are growing.

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lol i hope thats the case man thanks for the reply..ever noticed the difference with flushing with an agent or not?

TexasHank said:

You say your tap water is .22 ppm? And you are burning your plants with 200ppm?

It sounds like you either are reading your ppm device wrong or your ppm device is not working properly..

How many ml's per gal/liter of what are you using to get 200ppm? That might clear things up..

Also, what is it that you are seeing that makes you say the plants are being burnt? Explain what they are doing. Or, show pics..

All of these questions above will be helpful in giving you good answers to your questions.. You gotta give more info to get good answers in the online world.

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Im giving 4ml each of base anything above that i get tip burns and sometimes lose a fan leaf...as to the ppm meter..it could possibly be bad and thats the case..but fact in point is i only give my girls 4ml each of part A&B at all times..anything over that i get burns..so just curious if that was a normal amount or ridiculously low amount to be feeding..and I usually do Feed-Feed-Feed-Water (cycle is every 3-4 days need watering). In the past ive feed once a week and that didnt turn out nicely...

This is what I think is happening;

Perlite dries out pretty quickly. If your doing feed, feed, feed, water-that's your problem. Since the perlite dries so quick, salt builds up if your not constantly running nutrient solution through it or your not watering until you have plenty of run-off EVERYDAY.

I've done the exact same thing in a perlite hempy and it wasn't until I culled the plant and pulled the roots out to take a look that I realized what was happening.

My suggestion would be to flush the hell out of your hempy with 1/4 strength solution-really pour it all over your perlite, your trying to wash away any salt build up. I would use about twice your container size to do this, so if your in 3 gal containers then run 6 gals of 1/4strength through your buckets.

After you flushed away any excess salt build up I would change your feeding schedule to:

full strength feed, water, half strength feed, water, full strength feed, repeat...

OR I would water everyday with full strength until you get about 20-40% run-off. This defeats the purpose of a hempy bucket-it turns a passive hydro into a traditional DTW.

My suggestion would be to add something to your perlite next time to hold some water so it doesn't dry out so much, leaving salt behind. Either coco or vermiculite. 100% perlite is not the best way to run hempy buckets. If you do, then the feed schedule I mentioned above works really well.

Another thing about perlite that I've noticed, both with cannabis and tomatoes, is that the final product doesn't taste or smell as good as my stuff grown in soil or coco amended with perlite.

Also, when you harvest take a look at your roots. In 100%perlite hempy buckets the roots grow straight down, hit the resevior and then spread out. Since the perlite doesn't retain moisture very long the roots don't go outward, especially towards the top of your containers. In my 5 gal perlite hempys I didn't have ANY roots in the top half of the buckets(except for the ones going straight down from the plant). I also ran into issues with bigger plants supporting themselves because of this, and tipping over.

Are you running hempys because you can't be in your grow room everyday and you want to be able to just water them every few days? This is the only benefit I see to hempy buckets, and it comes at the cost of growth and vigor when compared to something like coco that is watered everyday. Just curious why you decided to go with hempy?

If your able to water your plants everyday then I would recommend looking into coco/perlite drain to waste set up. It's really easy to get the hang of and the growth is just incredible. Coco is watered everyday with full strength feed until 20%+ run-off. Simple and easy.

If your partial to the hempy buckets then look into doing a perlite resevior and filling the rest of the bucket with a perlite/coco mix. This combo absolutely blows the 100%perlite out of the water.

Squidbilly said:

Another thing about perlite that I've noticed, both with cannabis and tomatoes, is that the final product doesn't taste or smell as good as my stuff grown in soil or coco amended with perlite.

Also, when you harvest take a look at your roots. In 100%perlite hempy buckets the roots grow straight down, hit the resevior and then spread out. Since the perlite doesn't retain moisture very long the roots don't go outward, especially towards the top of your containers. In my 5 gal perlite hempys I didn't have ANY roots in the top half of the buckets(except for the ones going straight down from the plant). I also ran into issues with bigger plants supporting themselves because of this, and tipping over.

Are you running hempys because you can't be in your grow room everyday and you want to be able to just water them every few days? This is the only benefit I see to hempy buckets, and it comes at the cost of growth and vigor when compared to something like coco that is watered everyday. Just curious why you decided to go with hempy?

If your able to water your plants everyday then I would recommend looking into coco/perlite drain to waste set up. It's really easy to get the hang of and the growth is just incredible. Coco is watered everyday with full strength feed until 20%+ run-off. Simple and easy.

If your partial to the hempy buckets then look into doing a perlite resevior and filling the rest of the bucket with a perlite/coco mix. This combo absolutely blows the 100%perlite out of the water.

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hey squid thanks for the great info here..and Yes I did it this way because it seemed easy and i still find it a bit easy also...I would like to improve taste and smell more if the coco route takes me there. I just read here and there that coco might be more liable to attract bugs and ph might sometimes be an issue? And another thing I need to implement more maybe is allow more runoff...since you mentioned all of this I can see the buildup thing happening potentially.
AND let me understand this a bit better...your saying to water everyday even when theres still water in rez? as in always keep it full?
And im under LEDs so maybe that it gives out less heat I water less frequent?

Watering everyday will help. Infact, perlite would like to be watered even more then that and it performs the best in active hydro like dutch buckets that constantly flooded and drained-a lot of commercial vegtable farmers use this method with 100% perlite.

I'm giving you my advice because I was actually thinking about running perlite hempys for the same reasons as you- I heard stable ph, no pests, it's light and easy to work with, you can reuse it, and I've seen people have good success with the method. I started off this run in my new space with my mind set on it.

I started off in small party cup hempys and 2 litter hempys. Everything was going good. I did realize though that they did better when I watered them everyday and 'flushed' the medium with fresh nutrient solution, not only bringing in fresh oxygen but giving the plant a steady supply of fresh food. This isn't a new idea though-it's exactly what Drain To Waste hydro is. It's the same principal that all the coco guys use.

SO I decided to buy some coco and do a couple next to my hempys. After a few weeks it was obvious that any mix of coco and perlite, either 75%perlite to 25%coco in a hempy with a perlite res, or opposite 75%coco and 25%perlite traditional container handwatered to 20%+ runoff each day, was better and easier to maintain than just perlite alone.

Hempys work great, but they aren't as easy to get dialed as people think. With perlite that dries out really quick it's easy for salt to build up on it if it's not kept moist-and that's hard to do. That is why hempy himself suggests the feed, water, half strength feed, water, feed, etc. This keeps flushing out the old salt. If your feed, feed, water then salt may be building up.

Don't let the hype about coco scare you, it's awesome! Hempy's are good too, a lot of people do perlite on the bottom for a resevior, then 100% coco ontop. The coco stays moist and salt doesn't build up as easily. If you like watering more frequently then cut it with more perlite.

I run an automated dtw table using 60/40ish mix of coco/perlite. I am watering once a day for 4mins giving me a nice amount of run off. In flower I'll be watering at least twice a day. Each time I water it flushes out old salts, pulls in oxygen, and fresh feed. It sounds counter intuitive but keeping the medium moist with fresh solution and oxygen is far superior then a wet/dry cycle.

That is why watering everyday actually avoids a lot problems. Your giving it fresh, cool, ph'ed nutrient solution and oxygen everyday, perlite is completley inert so what your putting in is what the plant is getting>no guess work or worry about salt building up or a wacky ph in the medium. The disadvantage is you have to water everyday. If your reason for using hempys was so you didn't have to do that then you need to flush with 1/4 strength solution then change your feed schedule. If you can water everyday you will see faster growth.

I would recommend flushing, then watering everyday with 1/2 to 3/4 of the ppm you were feeding it at full strength. This will ensure that you flush the old salts out each day and give it fresh food and oxygen. If you do this the health of your plant should impove.

Squidbilly said:

Don't let the hype about coco scare you, it's awesome! Hempy's are good too, a lot of people do perlite on the bottom for a resevior, then 100% coco ontop. The coco stays moist and salt doesn't build up as easily. If you like watering more frequently then cut it with more perlite.

I run an automated dtw table using 60/40ish mix of coco/perlite. I am watering once a day for 4mins giving me a nice amount of run off. In flower I'll be watering at least twice a day. Each time I water it flushes out old salts, pulls in oxygen, and fresh feed. It sounds counter intuitive but keeping the medium moist with fresh solution and oxygen is far superior then a wet/dry cycle.

That is why watering everyday actually avoids a lot problems. Your giving it fresh, cool, ph'ed nutrient solution and oxygen everyday, perlite is completley inert so what your putting in is what the plant is getting>no guess work or worry about salt building up or a wacky ph in the medium. The disadvantage is you have to water everyday. If your reason for using hempys was so you didn't have to do that then you need to flush with 1/4 strength solution then change your feed schedule. If you can water everyday you will see faster growth.

I would recommend flushing, then watering everyday with 1/2 to 3/4 of the ppm you were feeding it at full strength. This will ensure that you flush the old salts out each day and give it fresh food and oxygen. If you do this the health of your plant should impove.

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Heh..dont know who you are but I know your my new best friend on here squido! honestly you made clear sense and I have come across similar info..im just the "make sure" before i do guy. Ok so let me wrap this up a little better for my sake..
like i said..I water 4ml each of base nutes to my 1 gallon water bottle as of this moment...My AN bottle @ full strength says to feed 15ml!! per base to the gallon which equals obviously 30ml of solution to the gallon bottle....Im just confirming that your saying to hit them a 30ml blast full nutes...then plain water 1 or 2 days after then...half dosage which is 7.5 +7.5ml of base then water then repeat etc...


And about the coco thing you said it would be beneficial if I did something like 25% coco and 75 perlite with perlite rez and that would benefit some? Can you explain in a nutshell coco preparation so I can go get it for next cycle? (as in how complicated will it be if at all)

And to add..my water comes from my cistern which is simply rain water..maybe thats cause for the .022ppm reading on my meter? lol

You may have to supplement rainwater with a bit of cal/mag or something. There are very little micros in rainwater and a lot of NPK ferts don't supply them. Normally these micros are contained in ground water supplies and city/town tap water.

bird mcbride said:

You may have to supplement rainwater with a bit of cal/mag or something. There are very little micros in rainwater and a lot of NPK ferts don't supply them. Normally these micros are contained in ground water supplies and city/town tap water.

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thanks for stopping by..And yes this is another issue i THINK i encounter with my leaves is this devious cal/mag problem...I heard epsom salt works great for this issue..as ive never really known how to apply it..water/foliar
and I never foliar feed any plant at any time..maybe i should start no?

I'm not an expert on micros so i stick with tap water.
I foilar feed and spray with fresh water at least once a week.
I supplement my res with dolomite lime and on occasion some plant ash to up the micros but only to a point of ph balancing the res.
I do flood and drain in tables filled with lava rock and clay gravel.

No, by full strength I mean YOUR max ppm, not what it says on the bottle. Each strain can be different.

Go by ec or ppm, not what it says on the bottle.

As far as prepping coco-I recommend getting quality coco to start, but no matter what you get you should flush it really good before you use it.

You should be rinsing your perlite too, so to kill two birds with one stone I would make your mix of coco perlite, lets say 75/25% perlite/coco and rinse the hell out of it. Either put the mix in a big rubbermaid bin with holes drilled all through it, or a 5 gal bucket with holes if you don't need that much medium, or even empty pots. The point here is you can't run ENOUGH water through the coco. I take mine in the shower or out in my driveway and just run water through it. Warm water is good if possible-not hot but warm.

You can do this with tap water, were just trying to get rid of any excess salts and debris.

Once you have your mix nice and washed the final step is to put it into your containers and prep it by running water @ ph 5.8 through your medium with approx. 100-200ppm cal/mag. Enough for a decesnt amount of run-off. Collect a tiny bit of that run-off and check ppm, it should be same as what you put in.

Really, you just need to rinse the coco really well. The last part with the ph'd water and cal/mag is more important if your running anymore then 25%coco in your mix, I found if using RO, distilled, or really clean tap water seedlings in coco will start showing nasty cal/mag issues if I don't charge the medium with at least 100ppm cal/mag prior to planting anything in it.

Using only 25% coco in perlite/coco hempy you shouldn't run into any of the coco specific problems. If your water is really clean, or doesn't contain cal/mag then supplementing is usually needed in any medium. You'll know if you need to start supplementing with it as cal and mag issues are fairly easy to recognize.

Squidbilly said:

No, by full strength I mean YOUR max ppm, not what it says on the bottle. Each strain can be different.

Go by ec or ppm, not what it says on the bottle.

As far as prepping coco-I recommend getting quality coco to start, but no matter what you get you should flush it really good before you use it.

You should be rinsing your perlite too, so to kill two birds with one stone I would make your mix of coco perlite, lets say 75/25% perlite/coco and rinse the hell out of it. Either put the mix in a big rubbermaid bin with holes drilled all through it, or a 5 gal bucket with holes if you don't need that much medium, or even empty pots. The point here is you can't run ENOUGH water through the coco. I take mine in the shower or out in my driveway and just run water through it. Warm water is good if possible-not hot but warm.

You can do this with tap water, were just trying to get rid of any excess salts and debris.

Once you have your mix nice and washed the final step is to put it into your containers and prep it by running water @ ph 5.8 through your medium with approx. 100-200ppm cal/mag. Enough for a decesnt amount of run-off. Collect a tiny bit of that run-off and check ppm, it should be same as what you put in.

Really, you just need to rinse the coco really well. The last part with the ph'd water and cal/mag is more important if your running anymore then 25%coco in your mix, I found if using RO, distilled, or really clean tap water seedlings in coco will start showing nasty cal/mag issues if I don't charge the medium with at least 100ppm cal/mag prior to planting anything in it.

Using only 25% coco in perlite/coco hempy you shouldn't run into any of the coco specific problems. If your water is really clean, or doesn't contain cal/mag then supplementing is usually needed in any medium. You'll know if you need to start supplementing with it as cal and mag issues are fairly easy to recognize.

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Ok so I just ordered that cal/mag from botanicare and my local plant shop has the coco..not sure what brand but they said they have in stock (forgot to ask) ..also do you know by chance how and why the coco would bring better taste etc..? I understand the root formation would change but just trying to understand the science. I'm probably gonna do 50% coco and 50% perlite just to make sure the coco does whatever it does lol

6 Leaf General said:

Ok so I just ordered that cal/mag from botanicare and my local plant shop has the coco..not sure what brand but they said they have in stock (forgot to ask) ..also do you know by chance how and why the coco would bring better taste etc..? I understand the root formation would change but just trying to understand the science. I'm probably gonna do 50% coco and 50% perlite just to make sure the coco does whatever it does lol

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I'd suggest you make sure and read everything you can about coco before you start! I've seen a handful jump right in to the pool and smash their heads on the bottom. It's a real easy medium to master, but only if the proper research is done. Would highly suggest doing a google search or checking out the threads here.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/coco-tips-techniques-and-the-facts-you-will-need.639193/

I would recommend you get either Canna or B'cuzz bagged coco to start with if possible. It's cheap and mostly preflushed so you don't have to pour 30 gallons of water through it to clean out the ocean salts. I have personally tested both mediums straight out of the bag and they have a runoff of less than 200ppm from the factory.

Also I wouldn't bother going with 50% perlite. I usually do a 5/1 coco/perlite ratio just because I like the way perlite looks in my medium. Silly I know, but I just can't do straight coco for some reason...just doesn't look right. The only thing more perlite does is causes your medium to dry out faster. Coco holds a LOT of water. Much more than perlite. The less coco in your pot the less water it's going to be able to hold. One last tip: Never...never never never never never....let a coco pot dry out completely. Stunts growth like a son of a bitch. Ask me how I know...

Bucees said:

I'd suggest you make sure and read everything you can about coco before you start! I've seen a handful jump right in to the pool and smash their heads on the bottom. It's a real easy medium to master, but only if the proper research is done. Would highly suggest doing a google search or checking out the threads here.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/coco-tips-techniques-and-the-facts-you-will-need.639193/

I would recommend you get either Canna or B'cuzz bagged coco to start with if possible. It's cheap and mostly preflushed so you don't have to pour 30 gallons of water through it to clean out the ocean salts. I have personally tested both mediums straight out of the bag and they have a runoff of less than 200ppm from the factory.

Also I wouldn't bother going with 50% perlite. I usually do a 5/1 coco/perlite ratio just because I like the way perlite looks in my medium. Silly I know, but I just can't do straight coco for some reason...just doesn't look right. The only thing more perlite does is causes your medium to dry out faster. Coco holds a LOT of water. Much more than perlite. The less coco in your pot the less water it's going to be able to hold. One last tip: Never...never never never never never....let a coco pot dry out completely. Stunts growth like a son of a bitch. Ask me how I know...

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Sup bucees i remember you...so yea let me wrap this for my sake again...
Coco/Perlite mix with perlite rez? right?
then the other thing is...is my objective to basically keep the pot wet and loaded at all times? Im getting mixed understanding of watering everyday and/or using coco so i dont water everyday? wtf
and is coco reusable?
and how often do you think ill be needing to water under leds?

I would not recommend reusing coco, that being said some people do.

Definitely do some reasearch. Since I have experience with it the process seams so easy, like Bucees said do a lot of research.

I threw a lot of info at you all at once. What I was getting at is a perlite hempy will perform better if watered everyday at full strength>this is because perlite dries out so fast. This is another reason that the original feed schedule that hempy himself recommends is feed, water, half strength feed, water, etc. If you feed consecutive waterings(assuming your skiping at least one day inbetween them) too much salt builds up as the perlite ontop of the resevior dries out>when you go to water it again the left over dry salt is added to your mix and makes it too strong. Alternating watering with feed and half strength feed helps flush some of these salts out. This is also another reason why hempys aren't always the easiest to get dialed.

Many people that run hempys do a mix of 1/4 vermiculite or coco to 3/4 perlite, usually with a perlite resevior. This helps the medium retain a little bit more moisture and makes for a much happier plant that spreads it's roots more then in perlite alone. I suggested using coco instead of vermiculite if you wanted to do hempys.

I was trying to then suggest you should just forget the hempy and do coco/perlite drain to waste>or handing watering everyday until 20%+ runoff with 'full' strength nutes IF watering everyday appeals to you. It performs better then hempys and is arguably just as simple. Each method has it's intricasies.

If wash your coco throughly, add at least 10% perlite, and water everyday with 'full strength' nutrients +cal/mag ph'd @ 5.8 to at least 20% run-off the plants almost grow themselves. That being said, you still need to put in the work. The people who are succesful with coco do the little things and they do them often. They also don't take short cuts. Once you get it down LOOK OUT, it's such a great
medium to work with and the results are nothing short of amazing.

Do some research. If you decide to go hempy, then I would suggest adding AT LEAST 1/4 coco ontop of the resevior to help retain some moisture. If you decide to run coco/perlte dtw your going to be watering EVERYDAY, maybe even more in flower if your using anything smaller then 2gal containers. The both have their pros and cons, however when it comes to vigorous growth and simplicity it's coco FTW.